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From a sample of decades of hunting with a 30-06, I can account for at least 40 elk and dozens of other big game animals with a simple load of IMR-4350 and 165 grain Hornady spire point bullets.

Any concern of temperature sensitivity never interfered with that success. The Hornady 165 grain spire point did not fail either.

Simply as near perfect an all around hunting cartridge you could possibly find…


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I've taken quite a few deer, antelope, and elk - using 165 gr Remington Core-Lokts, and Sierra Game Kings.
About all I've used in my "ought sixes" in ~45 years.


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Originally Posted by Gaschekt
I'd switch to H4350. Just a touch slower burning, more temp stability and an increase in MV.

If you can find it - haven't seen any H in years up here- just IMR. But then, that's just mostly casual browsing here and there - I haven't gone full-psycho about it... smile

The one and only elk I've killed died, boom-splat, due to a factory 140 gr. Corelokt from a 260. So have a number of caribou and a wolf. I would not worry about a .30 cal 165 or 180 gr in any decent handload.

JJHack, who used to post here, with far more experience than I, thought the 165 in 30-06 was just about ideal. I prefer 180, myself, but the 150's (Corelokts and SST) have killed a couple dozen caribou for me.

Pick your load and go forth and hunt, Grasshopper!

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I use Winchester SuperX Power Points in mine in 180 gr. because my .30-06 loves them. Drops deer and moose on the spot, lethal and very affordable!

Good luck with the elk I hope he slams a big one wink

KB

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Originally Posted by MuskegMan
One man - one rifle - one load - one pile 'o critters grin

Prolly a Redfield 4x scope too . . . .


How did you know?! A 2-7 Redfield bought from Ron Kesselring, my first scope!

Right now I'm finalizing a deer load for my latest 06, an M18. Zeroing in on 165 Interbond, 56.5 grains H4350, Federal primers, Win brass from a Lee Collet die.

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My go-to .30-06 load is 57.0 grains of IMR4350 behind a Barnes 165 gr. TSX bullet. Sub-MOA accurate, and deadly on anything I care to shoot it with.


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Originally Posted by Motown
Originally Posted by jwp475
I've now replaced 4350 with Ramshot Hunter, excellent accuracy higher velocity and lower pressures


Just curious, but how temp stable is Hunter?

From Ramshot

"Is Ramshot Hunter temp stable?
Most of our powders are not insensitive, and will show some effect at hot and cold temperatures. However, we test at -40F and +125F and the deviation in most cases are ca 3% to 5% at these extreme levels. Therefore most shooters do not notice much difference under normal practical hunting conditions."



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jwp,

When the Ramshot ballistic lab tested powder for temp sensitivity, they used ammo that had been chilled or heated--which has been done many times over the decades. In fact that's what Bob Hagel did for the results listed in his classic book, Game Loads and Practical Balliistics for the American Hunter.

But when I started testing powders for temp-resistance in the 1990s, I found that sometimes just heating/cooling ammo didn't produce the same results as when actually testing BOTH rifles and ammo in different temperatures. In fact the results only agreed maybe 20% of the time. There are several reasons for this, but it's why I don't trust results shot with ONLY the ammo heated or cooled.

This is also why the test results I list in Chapter 10 of The Big Book of Gun Gack II were primarily shot at actual temperatures, not with just the ammo heated or cooled.

Might also mention--as I have many times in various articles and books--that just about any modern smokeless rifle powder will produce very consistent results at any temperature from the 20s to 80s Fahrenheit, at least for typical big game ammo.

It's also well-known among Shrapnel's friends that he almost never hunts when it's really cold or hot....


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
jwp,

When the Ramshot ballistic lab tested powder for temp sensitivity, they used ammo that had been chilled or heated--which has been done many times over the decades. In fact that's what Bob Hagel did for the results listed in his classic book, Game Loads and Practical Balliistics for the American Hunter.

But when I started testing powders for temp-resistance in the 1990s, I found that sometimes just heating/cooling ammo didn't produce the same results as when actually testing BOTH rifles and ammo in different temperatures. In fact the results only agreed maybe 20% of the time. There are several reasons for this, but it's why I don't trust results shot with ONLY the ammo heated or cooled.

This is also why the test results I list in Chapter 10 of The Big Book of Gun Gack II were primarily shot at actual temperatures, not with just the ammo heated or cooled.

Might also mention--as I have many times in various articles and books--that just about any modern smokeless rifle powder will produce very consistent results at any temperature from the 20s to 80s Fahrenheit, at least for typical big game ammo.

It's also well-known among Shrapnel's friends that he almost never hunts when it's really cold or hot....

I believe it was Mule Deer that made the observation several years ago about all the cracked windshields in trucks in Montana were from cartridges loaded with H335 powder and they cooked off in the sun, cracking the windshields.

Even I know when you are kidding and my temperature sensitivity testing goes beyond mild fall days, but you already knew that...


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
jwp,

When the Ramshot ballistic lab tested powder for temp sensitivity, they used ammo that had been chilled or heated--which has been done many times over the decades. In fact that's what Bob Hagel did for the results listed in his classic book, Game Loads and Practical Balliistics for the American Hunter.

But when I started testing powders for temp-resistance in the 1990s, I found that sometimes just heating/cooling ammo didn't produce the same results as when actually testing BOTH rifles and ammo in different temperatures. In fact the results only agreed maybe 20% of the time. There are several reasons for this, but it's why I don't trust results shot with ONLY the ammo heated or cooled.

This is also why the test results I list in Chapter 10 of The Big Book of Gun Gack II were primarily shot at actual temperatures, not with just the ammo heated or cooled.

Might also mention--as I have many times in various articles and books--that just about any modern smokeless rifle powder will produce very consistent results at any temperature from the 20s to 80s Fahrenheit, at least for typical big game ammo.

It's also well-known among Shrapnel's friends that he almost never hunts when it's really cold or hot....


So how temperature sensitive is Hunter.

Your mention of Hunter is how I came to try it. So far I really like it



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Not to torpedo - I’ve only loaded Hunter under a 129gr HIL in a 6.5 Creedmoor and it’s wonderfully accurate. What are the favored 165/180gr loads using Hunter in a 30-06?

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Haven't used Hunter much with 165s, with 180-185 grain bullets have had great results with 57-58 grains, to the point where that's pretty much my standard 180-grain load.

First time I tried Hunter that bullet weight was in 2007 with 185-grain Berger Hunting VLDs--before they were even called "Hunting" VLDs. Three-shot groups averaged a little over half an inch at 100 from my Ultra Light Arms Model 24--but the same basic charge has also worked well in a wide variety of other .30-06s, including a Sauer drilling with 180 Partitions.


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I won a Remington 742 30/06with a $1 raffle ticket that my nephew sold to me a fundraising for HS band. They announced my name as the winner at the Friday night football game. It wasn’t there cos I worked night shift. But you can bet my butt was at Western Auto to claim it Saturday morning. I used it for years and handloaded using a Lyman press I got for $15. I used 57 grains of 4350 and Hornady flat base 165 grains. It would group 3 shots you could cover with a quarter at a 100 yds. I couldn’t believe a semi auto shot that well. I kept the chamber clean with a dogleg brush and never had a problem with jams. We hunted with dogs and still hunted mostly. I killed a doe on a pipeline right of way at 375 paces, my longest kill. Still remember kicking the Walker hounds off her when I finally got to her. It was a crossing at the bottom of a long hill.

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64 grains of Ramshot Hunter in my Kimber Classic Select got 2950 FPS behind the 168 TTSX

200 Yard Group
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Haven't used Hunter much with 165s, with 180-185 grain bullets have had great results with 57-58 grains, to the point where that's pretty much my standard 180-grain load.

First time I tried Hunter that bullet weight was in 2007 with 185-grain Berger Hunting VLDs--before they were even called "Hunting" VLDs. Three-shot groups averaged a little over half an inch at 100 from my Ultra Light Arms Model 24--but the same basic charge has also worked well in a wide variety of other .30-06s, including a Sauer drilling with 180 Partitions.

Thanks John! I’m going to fiddle with that load range next week. The weather up here has allowed more range time 😜

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Originally Posted by jwp475
64 grains of Ramshot Hunter in my Kimber Classic Select got 2950 FPS behind the 168 TTSX

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Dang. That’s pretty sweet.

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I wouldn't worry about your load. A friend and his son borrowed my Ruger 77 30-06 for their first elk hunt a couple of years ago. I had sighted in the Leupold M8 6x with factory 165gr ammo, but only had a few shells on hand when they came to pick it up.

I told them they could pick up a box of any Winchester, Remington or Hornady 165gr ammo from the local Scheels and go hunting.

They each got their elk with 1 shot.

P.S. 57gr of IMR 4350 with a 165gr bullet is listed on Nosler's Load Data page as their "most accurate" load.

Last edited by czech1022; 01/08/23.

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