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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,225
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,225 |
In “standard” velocity cartridges I don’t think they’re as effective as softer lead cored bullets if you stay off the shoulders. Plus I can see no benefit to them on deer sized game from cartridges producing less than 2800fps. This is true. I loaded some 168 TTSXs for a friend's .308, they were in the 2,500-ish fps range. He shot a nice bull through the heart at about 60 yards and recovered the bullet. Aside from the plastic tip being gone, it looked almost like I could have re-loaded it an shot it again. I've seen other similar photos, I think Brad has some. I'd like to see a picture of that bullet. Its supposed to be one of the versions that require less velocity to expand. Was considering using the 168ttsx as a do-it-all in .308 and .30-06.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,218
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,218 |
Is there any reason not to use copper bullets for hunting? Not really. Nobody is a bigger fan of Partitions than me. Having said that…. Copper bullets have come a long ways and are about as reliable as other premium hunting bullets. This seems to be especially true of the plastic tipped variety. Secondly, here in the west it is quite likely a matter of time before lead core bullets will be prohibited. Although that may not be much of a factor for you in Georgia.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
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On the opposite side here. After almost 60 years, I have used conventional bullets, except for a few partitions SPS had on sale for $13 a box. I see no extraordinary use for them except to make my wallet lighter. I found that if one uses conventional bullets within the design parameters of what velocity they were made for, they work quite well with just as good accuracy,if not better. I'd rather spend my money else where. I'd bet more animals have been taken with plain Jane CorLoks than all the copper bullets put together.That tells you some thing right there.
Two things made them popular. People who had magnumitus, as I call it, found conventional bullets do not work at higher velocities and they came to believe the magnums could do more.
The other is is the marketing hype of lead core bullets posing significant health concerns which had been debunked many times with blood test comparing hunters vs non hunters. I believe our local scribe Muledeer posted such findings.
I could post as many photos, if not more, of animals taken with conventional cored bullets that were just as dead. The anti's like them because it throws more road blocks in your way. Funny, many bitch about the government telling us what firearms we may own, but not when they tell us what we have to us in them.
The question I pose is why did you start using them? Laws said you had to? You were looking at lead cor bullets coming apart because you pushed them at 3500 fps? Blood testing is about worthless for determining your bodies lead load. Lead leaves the blood stream relatively quickly. It hides out in the bones, brain and other tissues for decades. Mono metal bullets do not work as well as lead and copper bullets as it pertains to killing quickly, but I use them and have been for a long team because I would rather not ingest lead. YMMV. And FWIW modern lead and copper bullets have worked well in magnums for the 35 years I've been hunting and probably worked well for before that.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,921
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,921 |
I've tried them. My results at the range show them to be adequate, but I get better accuracy with other bullets. Perhaps I just need to tweak my loads a little. The way I see it they are a good choice if using a cartridge that is borderline too small for the game hunted. But for now, I just like other bullets better and price has nothing to do with it.
The money saved buying 200 conventional cup and core bullets vs most premium bullets won't buy me a tank of gas for my truck. I wouldn't buy premium bullets for range plinking. But for load development, getting zeroed, some pre-season practice and hunting, 200 bullets will last me several years. A tank of gas, about 600 miles.
Paying for a premium bullet may not be necessary, but the added costs are negligible in relation to everything else. And who knows, that expensive MIGHT make the difference.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,078
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,078 |
I hate it when a TTSX doesn't hit any major bones and just pencils through, resulting in long runs... ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/212728.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/212729.jpg)
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,910
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,910 |
I hate it when a TTSX doesn't hit any major bones and just pencils through, resulting in long runs... So…..how far did he run after being hit? memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,078
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,078 |
A few yards. Less than 10.
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,763
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,763 |
Expense.
A big supply of other bullets.
Already have loads using those bullets in my guns.
They offer nothing extra. For the expense and bother.
Somewhere here are 1 box each 22 and 6mm Triple Shocks.
Never bothered to use them.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,297
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,297 |
I use whatever I feel like mostly cause I want to try something out. I kinda think I’ve seen enough now that lead/copper softer bullets kill quicker but all copper will pretty much always leave a blood trail.
If it comes to having to use an all copper bullet I believe I still won’t starve.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,910
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,910 |
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 708
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 708 |
I have killed more game with Barnes copper bullets than others. I’ve seen them used or used them myself to kill Coyotes,Antelope, Whitetails, Mule Deer, and Elk. Cartridges ranged from .223, .243, 7mm Rem Mag, .30-06, and .300 Win Mag.
I started using them in a .30-06 in 1994 when Dad wanted a reduced load for it so I could start Deer hunting. We used the 125 Barnes X. I kept using the ‘06 and it worked so well that when my brother started out with his .243 we loaded Barnes for him. I’ve always been able to get them to shoot in every rifle I have loaded them in.
I like them and they haven’t failed me yet although they aren’t needed for Deer and Antelope, I prefer them because of how well they penetrate. All the loads I’ve done are over 3,000 fps and going well above the minimum impact velocity at impact. I’ve used conventional bullets to kill game smaller than Elk. Obviously they work and will work on larger game as well. I just prefer the Barnes. They are more expensive and the BCs aren’t the best. I prefer the tipped version for easier expansion myself.
Long way of saying, no, there is no reason not to use them.
Isaiah 6:8
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,593
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,593 |
I run the ttsx exclusively for all my elk rifles. That include 6.5, 270 and 06. Accurate and deadly.
In off season I run cup and core as they are expensive to fling down range.
Found the 140 sst shoot almost identical as the 130 ttsx in my 270.
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,070
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,070 |
Secondly, here in the west it is quite likely a matter of time before lead core bullets will be prohibited. Although that may not be much of a factor for you in Georgia. Only because we live in a state that rolled over in to blue. I doubt MT and WY is close. With so few Republicans in the legislature now and Polis up for another term, what firearms we may own is may soon overshadow what we can shoot in them.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,117
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,117 |
In the early 90's I shot 2 deer with 165 Barnes X bullets and saw little if any expansion, and I butcher my own deer so I know what a bullet that expands does to tissue. So I swore off copper bullets for a while. Fast forward to 2010 and I shot an elk with the original 165 Winchester Supreme loads in a 300 WSM. That bullet was a copper front with some kind of lead encased in the rear section, but the front was a solid copper. Again not much expansion. In all 3 cases a follow up shot was required.
Now I have not tried the Barnes TSX or TTSX, but after 3 animals shot with copper bullets and less than satisfactory expansion, I am not in a hurry to try any more, especially when conventional bullets which include the Nosler Partion have served me very well. Maybe if I was trying to drive lighter bullets at magnum speeds I would give them a whirl.
Everyone has different experiences and many here and on other forums really like the all copper, great for them, I am not a fan.
Heaven has a wall, a gate and strict immigration policy.
Hell has open borders.
Let that sink in.....
I Live for Opening Day!
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,894
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,894 |
In the early 90's I shot 2 deer with 165 Barnes X bullets and saw little if any expansion, and I butcher my own deer so I know what a bullet that expands does to tissue. So I swore off copper bullets for a while. Fast forward to 2010 and I shot an elk with the original 165 Winchester Supreme loads in a 300 WSM. That bullet was a copper front with some kind of lead encased in the rear section, but the front was a solid copper. Again not much expansion. In all 3 cases a follow up shot was required.
Now I have not tried the Barnes TSX or TTSX, but after 3 animals shot with copper bullets and less than satisfactory expansion, I am not in a hurry to try any more, especially when conventional bullets which include the Nosler Partion have served me very well. Maybe if I was trying to drive lighter bullets at magnum speeds I would give them a whirl.
Everyone has different experiences and many here and on other forums really like the all copper, great for them, I am not a fan. You killed those animals with the copper bullets yet you believe that you got no expansion, yet straight line penetration. BS pointed bullets that don't expand are notorious for going off line and tumbling. Instead of estimating expansion by size of exit in the hide, simply pay attention to the damage done to the internal organs
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,920
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,920 |
Is there any reason not to use copper bullets for hunting? I can not really think of any, unless expense is a big factor. Have used a bunch of them on game animals. 53gr TSX out of 22-250 55gr GMX out of a 222 Remington 85gr TSX, 270 Win 110gr TSX, 270 Win 130gr T/TSX, 270 Win 130gr GMX, 270 Win 140gr X, 270 Win 180gr TTSX out of 300 H&H. Shot a little better than the 180gr GMX. 210gr T/TSX out of 338-06 300gr TSX out of 375 H&H 400gr TSX 404 Jeffery Blackbuck to Cape Buffalo, only a rough guess on number of animals. Conservatively 75, probably a lot more counting in witnessed animals from people I have been with. Velocity range at the muzzle has been 1850 to 3800 fps. Have a load worked up for my 416 Remington with 350gr TSX, the TTSX's did not shoot as good. Going to work up a load with 129gr LRX's this year for one of my 270's. I have not had any non-expansion issues like some here. I like them because they are easy to load, destroy less meat, and do not leave lead smears/fragments in the remaining meat. We process all of own animals, so I have seen that first hand. Are lead fragments in the meat really a big deal? I do not know as I have not read any well designed, conclusive studies on the subject. With all the being said, I have a pile of lead bullets on the shelf also.
Last edited by CRS; 01/15/23.
Arcus Venator
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,117
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,117 |
In the early 90's I shot 2 deer with 165 Barnes X bullets and saw little if any expansion, and I butcher my own deer so I know what a bullet that expands does to tissue. So I swore off copper bullets for a while. Fast forward to 2010 and I shot an elk with the original 165 Winchester Supreme loads in a 300 WSM. That bullet was a copper front with some kind of lead encased in the rear section, but the front was a solid copper. Again not much expansion. In all 3 cases a follow up shot was required.
Now I have not tried the Barnes TSX or TTSX, but after 3 animals shot with copper bullets and less than satisfactory expansion, I am not in a hurry to try any more, especially when conventional bullets which include the Nosler Partion have served me very well. Maybe if I was trying to drive lighter bullets at magnum speeds I would give them a whirl.
Everyone has different experiences and many here and on other forums really like the all copper, great for them, I am not a fan. You killed those animals with the copper bullets yet you believe that you got no expansion, yet straight line penetration. BS pointed bullets that don't expand are notorious for going off line and tumbling. Instead of estimating expansion by size of exit in the hide, simply pay attention to the damage done to the internal organs Guess you have a reading comprehension issue. I stated VERY little expansion. I also stated that I butcher my own deer so I sure as he!! Know what wounds look like when a bullet expands or tumbles or NOT. You like them fine, but don't try and tell me what my experiences are when you absolutely were not there to witness the results.
Heaven has a wall, a gate and strict immigration policy.
Hell has open borders.
Let that sink in.....
I Live for Opening Day!
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,894
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,894 |
In the early 90's I shot 2 deer with 165 Barnes X bullets and saw little if any expansion, and I butcher my own deer so I know what a bullet that expands does to tissue. So I swore off copper bullets for a while. Fast forward to 2010 and I shot an elk with the original 165 Winchester Supreme loads in a 300 WSM. That bullet was a copper front with some kind of lead encased in the rear section, but the front was a solid copper. Again not much expansion. In all 3 cases a follow up shot was required.
Now I have not tried the Barnes TSX or TTSX, but after 3 animals shot with copper bullets and less than satisfactory expansion, I am not in a hurry to try any more, especially when conventional bullets which include the Nosler Partion have served me very well. Maybe if I was trying to drive lighter bullets at magnum speeds I would give them a whirl.
Everyone has different experiences and many here and on other forums really like the all copper, great for them, I am not a fan. You killed those animals with the copper bullets yet you believe that you got no expansion, yet straight line penetration. BS pointed bullets that don't expand are notorious for going off line and tumbling. Instead of estimating expansion by size of exit in the hide, simply pay attention to the damage done to the internal organs Guess you have a reading comprehension issue. I stated VERY little expansion. I also stated that I butcher my own deer so I sure as he!! Know what wounds look like when a bullet expands or tumbles or NOT. You like them fine, but don't try and tell me what my experiences are when you absolutely were not there to witness the results. Well I see small exits with Cooper bullets and massive internal damage and use them all the time Seems you think you know more than you do about analyzing would channels Plus how much more wounding do you need after DEAD
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,445
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,445 |
In the early 90's I shot 2 deer with 165 Barnes X bullets and saw little if any expansion, and I butcher my own deer so I know what a bullet that expands does to tissue. So I swore off copper bullets for a while. Fast forward to 2010 and I shot an elk with the original 165 Winchester Supreme loads in a 300 WSM. That bullet was a copper front with some kind of lead encased in the rear section, but the front was a solid copper. Again not much expansion. In all 3 cases a follow up shot was required.
Now I have not tried the Barnes TSX or TTSX, but after 3 animals shot with copper bullets and less than satisfactory expansion, I am not in a hurry to try any more, especially when conventional bullets which include the Nosler Partion have served me very well. Maybe if I was trying to drive lighter bullets at magnum speeds I would give them a whirl.
Everyone has different experiences and many here and on other forums really like the all copper, great for them, I am not a fan. You killed those animals with the copper bullets yet you believe that you got no expansion, yet straight line penetration. BS pointed bullets that don't expand are notorious for going off line and tumbling. Instead of estimating expansion by size of exit in the hide, simply pay attention to the damage done to the internal organs Guess you have a reading comprehension issue. I stated VERY little expansion. I also stated that I butcher my own deer so I sure as he!! Know what wounds look like when a bullet expands or tumbles or NOT. You like them fine, but don't try and tell me what my experiences are when you absolutely were not there to witness the results. What is the difference of "absolutely not there" and plain ol' not there?
Don't ask me about my military service or heroic acts...most of it is untrue.
Pronoun: Yes, SIR !
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,117
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,117 |
Your lack of comprehension is still showing itself. I doubt one more time will make any difference with you but I will give it the old college try.
I process my own game. I always do an assessment of the bullet path. There was LITTLE internal damage done along the wound channel and LITTLE bruised bloodshot meat. The internal organs were NOT turned to soup but had a small wound channel through them. Every animal required another shot. None fell at the shot.
Again you love copper bullets, I get it. My experience and those of numerous other member here and some other forums that I visit shows that not everyone has positive experiences with copper. Get over it.
Heaven has a wall, a gate and strict immigration policy.
Hell has open borders.
Let that sink in.....
I Live for Opening Day!
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