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Originally Posted by BWalker
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Originally Posted by BWalker
Blood testing is about worthless for determining your bodies lead load. Lead leaves the blood stream relatively quickly. It hides out in the bones, brain and other tissues for decades.
Mono metal bullets do not work as well as lead and copper bullets as it pertains to killing quickly, but I use them and have been for a long team because I would rather not ingest lead. YMMV.
And FWIW modern lead and copper bullets have worked well in magnums for the 35 years I've been hunting and probably worked well for before that.

BWalker,

You have stated this before in other threads, but the latest research indicates that yes, blood-testing is very helpful, despite blood leaving the blood system within 30 days after exposure.

This has been determined by the development of an effective (and quick) way to measure lead-level in bones--and this shows a strong correlation with blood levels IF they're checked reasonably frequently.

Also, the studies I've mentioned in my articles have mentioned large samples between large populations of humans, especially the European study that compared hunters versus non-hunters. Game studies have also shown interesting results, especially from animals during hunting seasons.

But my main point is that no, blood-test for lead levels are not "about worthless for determining you bodies lead load," whether in humans or other animals. Which is why so many studies, both on humans and animals, depend at least partly on them.

Additionally, my data-base of animals taken with "copper" bullets is over 200 animals, dating back to around 1990. No, they don't kill as quickly as SOME lead-cores, but the results from the past dozen years don't show nearly as much difference as earlier bullets.

Around 150 of those animals were either taken by me or Eileen. We use far more "copper" bullets these days, mostly because they kill quickly enough, without ruining as much meat, on average, as lead-cores. Over the past five years we've taken around animals up through big elk with 'em, and none has gone over 50 yards before falling.
John, if you ingested lead today it would be out of your blood in 6 months or typically much less. It would be in your bones for decades. As such what does a blood test tell you other than you were recently exposed? You might read this.
https://labs.icahn.mssm.edu/toddlab/bone-lead-test/
FWIW they can also use a new type of Xray to analyze bone lead levels now where previously a bone biopsy was required.
Regardless I don't want to feed myself or my family any lead, period.

That may be true about the bone retention, but the lead in my ass seems to be forever.

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Originally Posted by techfish
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by techfish
I have limited experience with monos, but I did have one "pencil" a large buck a few years back. TTSX 185 grain out of a 338 Federal. Shot behind the shoulder at 250 yards. He died, but did run a fair distance and spilled very little blood. Exit hole diameter was same as entry. Do they work? Sure. Most likely due to slower velocities and not smacking bone, but that experience tarnished my confidence in that particular load. Just my 2 cents...
How was the internal damage?
The bullet hit the bottom of both lungs, so the cavity was blood filled. The damage was clearly there, but nothing like a NBT or SGK. Again, lots of variables and one instance...



The damage indicates expansion exit in hide isn't a good indicator of no expansion, but the internal damage is a good indicator of expansion



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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I have started shooting copper again. Simply because I’m close to retirement and I have great expectations of traveling out west and hunting. Whether or not I do is another story. Anyhow I bought a Nosler 21 300 win mag for myself as a gift and I’ve ran the old 150 XLC and the 175 LRX bullets out of it this year. I’ve had two separate experiences. I shot a 425 lb black bear with the 150 and it was lights out. I shot a big mature WT doe through the ribs with the 175 and she took off for over 100 yards . Both dead but it raised some doubt because I was shooting copper and all the history of it. After mulling over it I just said screw it and that I’m over thinking it. I remember shooting WT deer before with an ‘06 that ran when shooting cup and core bullets. 150 Mag Tips, 165 Interlocks, 180 BTs and 220 RN. Sometimes they run. Sometimes they are spooked a little, not necessarily from you, and they have a bump of adrenaline, or a big gulp of air and they just go. Unless you take out a couple of wheels, break shoulders and bang up meat they can go.


Keep your powder dry and stay frosty my friends.
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Never fired a mono in any of my rifles in my life. I guess with over 500 head of big game, I really don't think I need them. Another way to make sales of things not needed.


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Originally Posted by WyoCoyoteHunter
Never fired a mono in any of my rifles in my life. I guess with over 500 head of big game, I really don't think I need them. Another way to make sales of things not needed.
Unless you lived in CA.

Then you’d be thinking mono.

At least mono technology is advancing; shooting mono won’t be a hindrance vs shooting lead.

In fact it could even be better.

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My early experiences with copper bullets were using a 270 and the 140 gr. X bullets. What a crock! Piss poor bullets, not sure if even one actually expanded. Virtually every deer or hog hit through the chest acted like they were trying to win an Olympic marathon! I cursed Barnes for years after that fiasco. Well a few years ago I got several boxes of .243 diameter 80 grain TTSX bullets. Loaded them where the full diameter bottom of the bullet was even with the neck of the case, this gave me an immediate accurate load with a max charge of I4350. Don't know how fast they were going but that combination is good for just about anything you want to shoot with a 243. Still weak blood trails but that seems to be a 243 thing anyway. When they were gone did I buy any more? Nope.


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