|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
It was an interesting season. I carried an A Bolt II in 25-06 for the first time. Beautiful rifle. I decided to shoot Hornady 117 SSTs that came with it after reading up on them. On 3 boiler room shots right behind the shoulder the deer didn’t go down and no hair or blood to be found. Two deer twitched and ran, one went azz over tea kettle off the shoulder of the tram road never to be seen again. I checked the zero and it was right on. All 3 easy shots. I may be old and crazy but I can still shoot minute of deer. I’m trying to figure out what’s going on. Never had this with any cartridge or bullet. Id appreciate your thoughts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,357
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,357 |
How are we going to figure in the "old and crazy" variable?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
How are we going to figure in the "old and crazy" variable? That is the friggin’ challenge, how does it (it being old & crazy) change the ballistic coefficient and/or sectional bloody density?
Last edited by OldRooster; 01/21/23.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,357
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,357 |
Hard to say. I have only used the SST's in a 30-06, the 150 grain variety and had nothing but good results.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
Guy at the range when I was checking zero said he’d had the same thing happen with the 25-06 and changed from 117s to 87s or 90s to cure the problem. Said the 117s penciled through without leaving any blood trail. I spent hours looking for those deer. I don’t have enough field experience with the 25 to decipher this. I’ve killed a small mountain of deer with everything from 6.5x55 up to 30-06.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,357
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,357 |
Exit holes from my 30-06 were 2 inches across and maybe a bit bigger. I am running the 120 grain Speer SPBT in my 257 Roberts and it is a quick killer.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,408
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,408 |
I use 100 grain partitions in my 257 Roberts. Have for 35 years. Never had to trail a single deer. My best buck with that rifle dressed at 240#. DRT. Love that little round that definitely punches above its weight.
Last edited by Godogs57; 01/21/23.
You only live once, but...if you do it right, once is enough.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 150,854
Campfire Savant
|
|
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 150,854 |
I use the 100 TTSX Barnes in 257 Boberts, 115 ballistic tips in 25-06’s, 110 Accubonds in 257 Weatherby
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,753
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,753 |
I've had several Roberts, my bullet of choice for whitetail hunting is a Sierra Game King. I prefer 100 grain but my rifle also shoots 87 grainers well too.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27,756
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27,756 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,007
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,007 |
I like this load, got it from gunner500. How often to you see a Roberts cranking along at near 25-06 speeds. Brux barrel is on a LA 700, COAL a bit longer than the typical 2.8" SA. This load works well on WT's and hogs. Gunner calls it a "little buzz saw" and he ain't wrong. DF ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/tZf5e35l.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,007
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,007 |
It was an interesting season. I carried an A Bolt II in 25-06 for the first time. Beautiful rifle. I decided to shoot Hornady 117 SSTs that came with it after reading up on them. On 3 boiler room shots right behind the shoulder the deer didn’t go down and no hair or blood to be found. Two deer twitched and ran, one went azz over tea kettle off the shoulder of the tram road never to be seen again. I checked the zero and it was right on. All 3 easy shots. I may be old and crazy but I can still shoot minute of deer. I’m trying to figure out what’s going on. Never had this with any cartridge or bullet. Id appreciate your thoughts. Similar SST experience some years ago with a 140 gr. out of a 6.5-284. IMO, too many good bullets out there for that. So, I don't use them any more. Others say they work great. DF
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,351
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,351 |
Hmm, I'd aim for bone, through both shoulders. Or I'd use a lighter bullet (like I am 75gr X bullet) at warp speed. Last trotting buck I shot with it went 25 yrds and piled up. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/kHN30Nh.jpg)
Last edited by blammer; 01/21/23.
Whatever you are willing to put up with, is exactly what you will have.
When your ship comes in. ... make sure you are willing to unload it.
PAYPAL, sucks and I will never use them again. I recommend you do the same.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 14,016
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 14,016 |
I gave up on the 25-06 yrs ago look no further than a 270 for flat trajectory and blood trails
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,497
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,497 |
Not a 25-06 but I use a 100 grain partition in a 257 weatherby. Pretty much drt.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 142
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 142 |
Use 120 rem corelokt in 25/06 with excellent result. Use 129 sst in 6.5 creedmoor,139 in 7mm08, and 180 in 300 win with no problems most just drop on a short run with a good blood trail.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,233
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,233 |
I personally like 100 grain TSX or TTSX in .25 caliber. Every deer I’ve shot died right in it’s tracks. All inside 100 yards, and I swear my .257 Roberts frees their soul before they hit the ground.
Livin ain’t killed me yet, but it’s workin on it!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,251
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,251 |
this year i used a 103 gr. Hammer bullets in my 257 Weatherby mag. velocity 3680 FPS was a one shot bang flop on a buck that was weighed and dressed weight of 193 lbs at 125 yards ,blood all over on the ground too. one shot on a antelope buck at a measured 460 yards with my 257 Weatherby mag. same bullet 103 gr. Hammer bang flop too. this Ruger #1 shots 1/2 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards with these Hammer bullets. 100 gr. Nosler Partitions and 100 gr. Swift A-Frames do the same thing but don`t shoot as accurate groups they open up a little bit put still do the bang flop. next year i plan on shooting a Ruger #1 257 Roberts with 75 gr. Hammer bullets i wanna keep the speed up it kills better for me.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
Uncle has been using the 117 SST from his 25-06 for going on 20 years. He is a lung shooter, never heard him complain.
A bud uses them and he likes them better than a Game king which I never thought he would say. He was always a GK fan until he shot the SST. Says they put deer down quick fast and in a hurry where the GK usually let em run 20-30 yards.
My thoughts on your issue is the deer were not hit properly.
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 01/21/23.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,790
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,790 |
I have not used the exact bullet in question, but from my experience with other SSTs I find it hard to believe there was a lack of expansion. The 95 grain 6mm, 165 grain .308" and 120*** grain 6.5mm have been really good deer bullets in my camp.
***Yes 120, not 129. The 120 was one Hornady made for 260 Remington factory ammunition that my nephew has used.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382 |
In .25 caliber, I have some different weight partitions and 100gr interlocks and recently I bought some 87 and some 100 grain hot cores. I plan on carrying a 25 this fall, maybe a second as a back-up. Choice is a 1 in 14” twist 250 99, a 700 Classic 257 or 25-06 ADL.
When SST’s came out, I shot a doe with the 25-06 which had a 4” entrance wound. I sold all my SST bullets cheap. They shot very accurately in my 6mm, 280, 7x57 & 25-06, actually some of the best groups in the 6mm and the 25-06. They looked great on paper and I bought quite a few boxes. I’m glad to read the positive stuff about them. If I shoot SST’s again, I’ll be sure to buy current production SST’s.
I’ve been looking for different .25 caliber bullets. Found the hot cores, but not much else out there right now that I could find. I’m hoping to find some .25 caliber options in the next 6 months including GK’s and TTSX’s.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
Have used the 100gr Sierra Gameking, 90 gr Sierra HPBT, 100gr Barne TTSX and the 115 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip in the 25’s. At the 25-06 velocities it would be hard to beat the Ballistic Tip. They have be phenomenal in my .25-284.
GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,407
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,407 |
115 NBT and Partition work well for me at moderate velocities out of a 257 Roberts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,219
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,219 |
100 TTSX on top of 49.0g of Hunter @ 3114 from a 22" Montana, seated .120 off lands.
My heart's in the mountains, my heart is not here.
My heart's in the mountains, chasing the deer.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
Keep the info coming gang. I’m soaking it all up. And thanks for your thoughtfulness.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,029
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,029 |
I don't have an answer. But I've had great results on deer fro 25 years with the 100gr. Ballistic Tip , and 115gr. Partition.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,274
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,274 |
The sst is way to fragile for close shots.
I have been using a .25-06 and a. 257 Roberts for a long time. I've had some great experiences and a couple duds. The most frangible were the least effective for me.
“You never need fear a man, no matter what his size. When danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.”
Samuel Colt.
�Common sense is genius dressed up in work clothes.� - Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,804
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,804 |
87-115 in the 25-06 never an issue
257 Ai loves 117gr Sierra boatails never had an issue opening up deer or dropping them
Hunt...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,501
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,501 |
Not 25-06, but the bullet on the right below is a 95gr SST that my son used on a frontal shot on a deer with his .243 Win at very close range 4 years ago when he was 14. Impact velocity was about 3,000 fps. It went through about 2 feet of deer and ended up under the hide toward the rear. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/ZNgO1zb.jpg) About 50 minutes later, his younger brother shot this guy with a shorter-barreled .243 Win with Hornady Lite loads. 87gr SST impacting at about 2,400 fps and exited. Both deer dropped in their tracks. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/IO8bxUV.jpg) Entrance wound: ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/bhezqSm.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
87-115 in the 25-06 never an issue
257 Ai loves 117gr Sierra boatails never had an issue opening up deer or dropping them What muzzle velocity are the 117s running at?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,733
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,733 |
When I had my 250 savage I shot a lot of 100gr ballistic tips, interlocks, and pro hunters. That all worked great!
Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,224
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,224 |
I settled on the 110 gr. NAB out of my .257 Roberts 24" barrel at 3000 fps. Actually, I think that combo kills too well when it comes to Pronghorn. The exit holes are massive.
It's you and the bullet, and all the rest is secondary.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
Guys, I think I’m going back to Hornady IL 117s or the GK 117s at moderate velocities. They should expand well without blowing up. I have a thing about behind-the-shoulder shots since they tend to do much less meat damage. Since shot placement in the woods is somewhat less than perfect for crazy old pharts I also want a bullet that will go through a shoulder and keep on trucking. That’s the kind of performance I’ve consistently had with Hornady IL 165s and expect with the 117s
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,026
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,026 |
Exit holes from my 30-06 were 2 inches across and maybe a bit bigger. I am running the 120 grain Speer SPBT in my 257 Roberts and it is a quick killer. Speer 120 is what I used in my 77V 25-06 on 20 something caribou over 3 years. Handloads. Same result as yours. The OP SST results are surprising, considering my experience with 150 SST's in the 30 '06, on caribou, also mirroring your results. I believe SST's are designed for expansion at longer ranges, lower velocities? I used Hornady Super Performance factory loads at about 3100. The GMX didn't produce as big holes under 300 yards, but were just as effective as the SST. About 8" difference in POI at 300 yards, the GMX going high and right. Who needs premiums???  . If I still had a .25-06, I'd likely use Speer 120's or something close to it in Corelokt or Interbond for handloads at closer ranges. Maybe even a mono.
Last edited by las; 01/22/23.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,286
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,286 |
I am a big fan of 100gr TSX/TTSX/NBT in my 25-06,25-06AI and 25-284.
They flat out work on deer and varmints.
CK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 587
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 587 |
I have good success with 100 grain Ballistic Tips and TTSX from my Browning 25/06. I typically load the Ballistic Tip but both have performed well up close (60 yds or so) as well as 150 yds plus. Most deer go down immediately and in a few cases they may run (if hit behind shoulder) 50 yds or less.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,109
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,109 |
I have always like cup and core Nosler old style Solid Base and Hornady S.P.s in a variety of calibers
and weights.
I have recently been able to acquire 100 gr 25 cals in both, although both are no longer made.
I have yet to shoot game with them, but really looking forward to it.
I did shoot a whitetail with a 100 BT which performed better than the shooter did.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
Albert Einstein
At Khe Sanh a sign read "For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected never knew".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,692
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,692 |
So, did you recover the other two deer? If so, what was the internal damage like?
What fresh Hell is this?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,881
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,881 |
How far did they run before they got out of sight?
Deer and how they react to shots can drive you crazy. I took two bucks last year both with perfect behind shoulder shots with completely different results.
First was with my 257rob using 100gr BT from 100yds..hit him right behind shoulder taking out both lungs and messed up off shoulder. The way he ran off i thought i missed which I was shocked at that distance. But he ran 40yds into thicket and piled up.
Second was with 280ai and 140BT at 425yds. Hit him perfect behind shoulder and he flipped ass over head and didn't move.
Unless you take out the CNS or break both shoulders, deer are usually going to run. I've taken both lungs out and even most of heart on shots and deer have run 50+ yes. People say deer are easy to kill but they have strong will to live and still amaze me sometimes how far they can run with solid hit.
Last edited by Jpterry; 01/24/23.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
Could that have been a139gr SST?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,881
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,881 |
Could that have been a139gr SST? My bad...it was a 140 Nosler Ballistic Tip... not SST. Good catch.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,294
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,294 |
The TTSX bullet shoots well, in my rifle but it seems a bit hard for sub 200 pound deer to me, just my opinion. I have had all good results with the 117 grain Hornady and as well the 117 grain Sierra. No deer has made it past 25 yards with a typical shot behind the shoulder. The 257 Robert’s is my favorite deer cartridge.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
I’m going to work up some loads with the 117 Sierras and see if I can get good accuracy with IMR 4831 at less than maximum velocities. Most shots here are at 100 yards or less so the lower velocity should be fine even for 200 yards. As a rule I avoid Hail Mary shots. I want clean kills.
Last edited by OldRooster; 01/24/23.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,881
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,881 |
I took a buck couple years back with 80ttsx out of my 250ai. It was a quartering away shot and aimed for middle of off front shoulder. Bullet MV is 3563fps and 100yd shot so probably hit the buck around 3400fps.
Buck stumbled a few steps and went down...thought he DRT. Gave him 15 mins and walked up to him and he staggered up stumbled 10ft and dropped back down with his head was up looking at me. Knew he was hit hard and would eventually bleed out but not what I was expecting. Put another shot into chest and he didn't move...still head up looking at me.
Third shot took my time and took a head shot and finally went down. I don't take risky shots and hate seeing game suffer with bad shots. After gutting and skinning the buck...bullet took out liver, one lung and shoulder. Second bullet zipped thru without much damage.
The buck would have eventually bled out and died after first hit since he obviously didn't run off after walking up on him but I won't use the 80ttsx at that speed for behind shoulder shots. It's probably a great thru the shoulders bullet but definitely want more expansion and energy dumped into vitals with softer bullet.
Long story short...if you are a behind the shoulder shooter ...I would look at accubonds, partitions, ballistic tips, etc that fit more into opening up and dumping energy into vitals more than mono bullets with higher speeds.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,185
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,185 |
Honestly, I've always liked the 120 Partition and 117 Interlocks. Great accuracy with either of them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 341
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 341 |
I’ve had pretty spectacular results with TTSX bullets over the years. I’ve probably shot a dozen deer using slightly lighter than standard weights, i.e. 120 gr bullets in in a 7x57 or .270. They’ve almost always dropped within 20 yards and usually much less. One time though, I hit a large doe a little high and a little far back on the shoulder, at least that’s what I think. She took off and all I could find were a few drops of blood where she was standing when I hit her and then in one or two spots within a few hundred yards. That’s the only deer I ever failed to recover and it still bothers me. My guess is I missed the heart, lungs and spine and possibly the bullet failed to open, but maybe it was just the shot placement. I still use Barnes bullets almost exclusively.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,616
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,616 |
My son has used the 80gr TTSX in the 25-06 for years. He has shot deer to huge-bodied bull moose to brown bear. They work and work well. Like real estate, location, location, location.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 171
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 171 |
My load of 50 gr of 4831 & 117 gr SGK out of 24" ER Shaw barrel is death on whitetails in west TN. Never had any bad experiences, I've stayed away from any SST. Just my opinion, good luck sir.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
Honestly, I've always liked the 120 Partition and 117 Interlocks. Great accuracy with either of them. CLB, if I can find the 117 ILs I’ll buy some. I’ve had consistently great performance from them in 6.5, 7mm, and 30 cal chamberings.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
My load of 50 gr of 4831 & 117 gr SGK out of 24" ER Shaw barrel is death on whitetails in west TN. Never had any bad experiences, I've stayed away from any SST. Just my opinion, good luck sir. My load of 50 gr of 4831 & 117 gr SGK out of 24" ER Shaw barrel is death on whitetails in west TN. Never had any bad experiences, I've stayed away from any SST. Just my opinion, good luck sir. Any experience with the Pro Hunters? I thought my stash was GKs but they’re PH.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
Here’s a postscript:
I was rummaging in the man cave and found a box of Hornady American Whitetail 117s, 2 boxes of Remington 100 Core-Lokt, 1box of the Hornady SST 117s (that I’ll sell), 1/2 box of Double Tap 100 TTSX. They all came with my A Bolt and I forgot about them. Too many decisions.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,486
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,486 |
I've had good results from the 25-06 with 100 gr Barnes TSX, 115 gr Berger VLD, and 115 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/udxbhYdh.jpg) Regards, Guy
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 930
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 930 |
110gr Accubond has worked well for me too
What if Jessie's girl is Stacy's mom, and her phone number is 867-5309
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,621
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,621 |
I’ve never used an SST in .257 but the performance you shared is not what I’ve experienced with my 25-06’s. I’ve found it a most emphatic killer if I do my part.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,486
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,486 |
I 110gr Accubond has worked well for me too I just started loading those 110 gr Accubonds last year and haven't taken game with them yet. The accuracy is sure impressive. Regards, Guy
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
The responses to this thread are making me wonder if there was something special in my Wheaties. Question: Isvthere a reason why y’all prefer the tipped bullets to a good cup and core? I have shot a couple of deer with tipped bullets and the exit wounds were the about the size of a big orange or a small grapefruit. Is that your experience?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,285
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,285 |
100g Nosler Partition, 46g H-4350, Ruger No.1, 26" barrel, 257 Roberts. 3200fps + or - a bit. Point Blank Range, 0 - 300yds. Not that a partition is needed, but it doesn't hurt.
Ed
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,251
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,251 |
100g Nosler Partition, 46g H-4350, Ruger No.1, 26" barrel, 257 Roberts. 3200fps + or - a bit. Point Blank Range, 0 - 300yds. Not that a partition is needed, but it doesn't hurt. i like this load and will try it since i got a bunch of 100 gr.Partitions ,thanks for posting ,Pete53
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,285
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,285 |
100g Nosler Partition, 46g H-4350, Ruger No.1, 26" barrel, 257 Roberts. 3200fps + or - a bit. Point Blank Range, 0 - 300yds. Not that a partition is needed, but it doesn't hurt. i like this load and will try it since i got a bunch of 100 gr.Partitions ,thanks for posting ,Pete53 Pete53, that load is with WW Super 164g case/brass, federal 210M primer @ 2.880 COAL. I use it in three different 257s. 26" Ruger No.1, 24" Savage, and a 20" Ruger Hawkeye.
Last edited by 308ld; 01/31/23.
Ed
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,621
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,621 |
The responses to this thread are making me wonder if there was something special in my Wheaties. Question: Isvthere a reason why y’all prefer the tipped bullets to a good cup and core? I have shot a couple of deer with tipped bullets and the exit wounds were the about the size of a big orange or a small grapefruit. Is that your experience? With the exception of the 100gr TTSX & Partition, I’ve used mostly cup & core. 117 Pro Hunter & 100gr Horn Spirepoint/Interlocks with good success. The 117 pro hunter is pretty stout when shot from a 257 Rob which works good up in our woods.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
I have used the 100 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, 100 grain Swift Scirocco, 120 Nosler PT, 100 TTSX, and the plain old green box 100 grain Core Lokts from the 25-06 and my brothers 257 Wby. Lotsa good ones for the quarter bores.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382 |
100 grain Hornady Interlocks - was the go to bullet for my 25-06. I tried SST’s and they were a miserable failure.
I’m going to go with partitions in my 257 and the 25-06, I believe.
I’m going to have to do a lot of testing with my 1 in 14” 250”. Ken Waters wrote that the 1 in 14” twist will shoot 100 grain bullets fine. Others say it won’t. I have 87 & 100 grain hot cores. Some 100 grain partitions. I have my eye out for some Sierras.
I’d like at this time to give a sign of my middle finger sticking up to the new Hornady management.
Last edited by Bugger; 01/31/23.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,168
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,168 |
I have a 250Ai and tried a few bullets 110NPT, 110 AB, 100BT 100g hornady and 100g sierra. I shot one bear and a bunch of deer with it. All the bullets kill deer just fine. but I mostly just shoot 100BT seconds. I havent caught a 100BT and they do enough damage but don't make a mess. Surprisingly the 100NPT seems the softest of the bunch. lots of damage (too much for my taste) and I caught two on broadside shots at deer. The shank in that one is very short and the front very soft.
The collection of taxes which are not absolutely required, which do not beyond reasonable doubt contribute to public welfare, is only a species of legalized larceny. Under this Republic the rewards of industry belong to those who earn them. Coolidge
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,608
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,608 |
My load of 50 gr of 4831 & 117 gr SGK out of 24" ER Shaw barrel is death on whitetails in west TN. Never had any bad experiences, I've stayed away from any SST. Just my opinion, good luck sir. My load of 50 gr of 4831 & 117 gr SGK out of 24" ER Shaw barrel is death on whitetails in west TN. Never had any bad experiences, I've stayed away from any SST. Just my opinion, good luck sir. Any experience with the Pro Hunters? I thought my stash was GKs but they’re PH. Yep about 30 years. 117 Sierra, 53-53.5 grains MRP or RL22, Win primer. Worked in both my 25.06. Good bullet.
Swifty
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,478
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,478 |
120 partitions in my no1 since 1975 always made hairy things fall over
there is no man more free than he who has nothing left to lose --unknown--
" If it bleeds we can kill it" Conan The Barbarian
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,770
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,770 |
You're going to be looking a long time if you're looking for a bullet for any reasonable deer cartridge that's going to put them down right there with "..boiler room right behind the shoulder..." shots. It doesn't matter if you turn the lungs into a bloody pulp, they might run 100 yards or more. If you want them dead right there, you need to wreck the running gear and/or the central nervous system. In most cases, your best chance for doing that is the high shoulder shot. If you hit about a third of the way down the shoulder you have a good chance of busting the spine and the shoulders. You might ruin a couple of pounds of shoulder meat...so what? You've got a deer right there.
I have killed more than a truckload of deer. I can only recall one instance when I shot a deer through the "boiler room" that the deer dropped right on the spot without any big bones or CNS components being hit. That was a small doe hit angling down through the front of the chest at fairly close range by a 150 grain (original) X-bullet from a 7mm RM (not what anyone would consider a soft, explosive bullet.)
I like to shoot them clean, behind the shoulder, when possible and advisable. Since moving down here, however I tend to like them DRT. I only shot one behind the shoulder since I've been down here. It was a perfect hit, good bullet, wrecked the heart and lungs and the deer ran about 75 - 100 yards into the woods. Poking around in the rapidly diminishing light in fairly warm weather (70's) in the brush of the SC Low Country following a slight blood trail, I decided from then on my SC deer were all going to be shot high through the shoulders.
Mathew 22: 37-39
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,770
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,770 |
For what it's worth, I've begun playing with my .25-06 AI again after a hiatus of about 15 years and the first bullet I'm going to try is the 117 SGK.
Mathew 22: 37-39
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,790
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,790 |
You're going to be looking a long time if you're looking for a bullet for any reasonable deer cartridge that's going to put them down right there with "..boiler room right behind the shoulder..." shots. It doesn't matter if you turn the lungs into a bloody pulp, they might run 100 yards or more. My father put an early 130 grain Ballistic Tip at high speed through a buck, pure broadside behind the leg. The chest cavity contents were wrecked with a large portion blown out of a big exit hole. That deer still managed to go about a hundred yards.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382 |
cra1948
I shot four whitetail last fall and all four dropped instantly. They were shot with 7x57 and TTSX bullets. Penetration was through and the exit wounds were big. Two were hit behind the shoulder. one was straight on and hit in the chest. The fourth wasn't a perfect shot by any means it took out the back. I think that bullet was a little aggressive. It was fine for three of the deer. It took out a lot of meat on the fourth.
I have never had that kind of kills with my 25-06. But I think it's possible with the right bullets.
Bugger
Last edited by Bugger; 01/31/23.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,470
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,470 |
I still shoot Nosler 100 grain bullets in both the 25-06 and 257 Roberts with good results. I shot a lot of deer and antelope, but only remember one dropping in it's tracks... ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/b4mucKa.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,109
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,109 |
I like boiler room shots and then the animal runs 25 to 75 yards. All the while
pumping out blood from the muscles due to a blown up heart. Any DRT animals
I have shot had a lot of blood left in the whole body because none was pumped out.
Just my 2 cents.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
Albert Einstein
At Khe Sanh a sign read "For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected never knew".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
For what it's worth, I've begun playing with my .25-06 AI again after a hiatus of about 15 years and the first bullet I'm going to try is the 117 SGK. It's a killer. Expect short runs of maybe 20 yards on lungs shots. DRT with any of the high or high forward shoulder shots, same as any other cartridge.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
I have a 250Ai and tried a few bullets 110NPT, 110 AB, 100BT 100g hornady and 100g sierra. I shot one bear and a bunch of deer with it. All the bullets kill deer just fine. but I mostly just shoot 100BT seconds. I havent caught a 100BT and they do enough damage but don't make a mess. Surprisingly the 100NPT seems the softest of the bunch. lots of damage (too much for my taste) and I caught two on broadside shots at deer. The shank in that one is very short and the front very soft. No surprise. The front of a Partition is about as soft of lead as you will find. It's all in the design.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
100 grain Hornady Interlocks - was the go to bullet for my 25-06. I tried SST’s and they were a miserable failure.
I’m going to go with partitions in my 257 and the 25-06, I believe.
I’m going to have to do a lot of testing with my 1 in 14” 250”. Ken Waters wrote that the 1 in 14” twist will shoot 100 grain bullets fine. Others say it won’t. I have 87 & 100 grain hot cores. Some 100 grain partitions. I have my eye out for some Sierras.
I’d like at this time to give a sign of my middle finger sticking up to the new Hornady management. Good luck on the Sierra, especially if Prohunters as I believe those are discontinued.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
CRA 1948, I agree with you. I if I have to find one that’s gone 75 yards I’m OK with that as long as I find it. I’ve had good luck with IMR 4831 behind 117s and 120s in my B78. I also have R22. The 4350 I’m trying to save for my 30-06 since it’s gotten hard to find more around here. As for bullets, I have the Sierras in 100 and 117 so I should be all set. If I come up with Partitions I’ll try them as well.
This thread is why I have enjoyed the Campfire for all these years. Your collective input is great and y’all have a lot of experience.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,285
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,285 |
I have a 250Ai and tried a few bullets 110NPT, 110 AB, 100BT 100g hornady and 100g sierra. I shot one bear and a bunch of deer with it. All the bullets kill deer just fine. but I mostly just shoot 100BT seconds. I havent caught a 100BT and they do enough damage but don't make a mess. Surprisingly the 100NPT seems the softest of the bunch. lots of damage (too much for my taste) and I caught two on broadside shots at deer. The shank in that one is very short and the front very soft. No surprise. The front of a Partition is about as soft of lead as you will find. It's all in the design. Here is 100g 25cal. partition from a .257 Roberts. Whitetail, quartering away L to R, 153yds, shot tight behind the right shoulder, caught under the hide of the off side shoulder. Impact at about 2800fps, retained 64.2g. Mushroom to .445. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/RguGTC9.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/nBkfjPl.jpg)
Last edited by 308ld; 01/31/23.
Ed
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,767
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,767 |
Looks like perfect performance.
I shot quite a few 100 grain nosler BTs in my 257 Roberts and it worked great on deer. Not sure how they act with the added juice of a 25-06 though
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
I have a 250Ai and tried a few bullets 110NPT, 110 AB, 100BT 100g hornady and 100g sierra. I shot one bear and a bunch of deer with it. All the bullets kill deer just fine. but I mostly just shoot 100BT seconds. I havent caught a 100BT and they do enough damage but don't make a mess. Surprisingly the 100NPT seems the softest of the bunch. lots of damage (too much for my taste) and I caught two on broadside shots at deer. The shank in that one is very short and the front very soft. No surprise. The front of a Partition is about as soft of lead as you will find. It's all in the design. Here is 100g 25cal. partition from a .257 Roberts. Whitetail, quartering away L to R, 153yds, shot tight behind the right shoulder, caught under the hide of the off side shoulder. Impact at about 2800fps, retained 64.2g. Mushroom to .445. Yep,typical Partition performance and typical weight retention. Front part of bullet smeared away, all part of the design and why they usually kill pretty quick. Actual wider than how a Partition usually expands. That's well over 1.5x expansion. Normally the front of the jacket is laid back almost flat to the remaining shank.
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 01/31/23.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
Looks like perfect performance.
I shot quite a few 100 grain nosler BTs in my 257 Roberts and it worked great on deer. Not sure how they act with the added juice of a 25-06 though The same in my book. That is a tough little bullet that seems to rock deer.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,007
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,007 |
100 NPT is the most accurate bullet in my H.S. .240 Wby.
Never a bad thing when that happens.
DF
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,732
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,732 |
OP,
Went through trying times with my 6.5 Swede using some bullets highly regarded
by others. Unbelievable misses, unrecoverable hit deer. A Schmidt show rodeo,
one doe. Went lighter, softer, deer die better now.
Only 25-06 experience is loading some 117gr BT Speers for a friend.
He claims good, quick kills.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
I’m going to give the 25-06 one more season with different bullets to see how it does. The rifle is a beautiful A Bolt II Medallion and I love it. The jury is still out on the chambering. I will likely go back to a 6.5x55 if the next season isn’t a helluva lot better.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
I’m going to give the 25-06 one more season with different bullets to see how it does. The rifle is a beautiful A Bolt II Medallion and I love it. The jury is still out on the chambering. I will likely go back to a 6.5x55 if the next season isn’t a helluva lot better. .007 ain't gonna make a lick of difference.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
OP,
Went through trying times with my 6.5 Swede using some bullets highly regarded
by others. Unbelievable misses, unrecoverable hit deer. A Schmidt show rodeo,
one doe. Went lighter, softer, deer die better now.
Only 25-06 experience is loading some 117gr BT Speers for a friend.
He claims good, quick kills. How is an "unbelievable miss" the fault of a bullet?
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
Looks like perfect performance.
I shot quite a few 100 grain nosler BTs in my 257 Roberts and it worked great on deer. Not sure how they act with the added juice of a 25-06 though The same in my book. That is a tough little bullet that seems to rock deer. Beretzs Have you used the 100 gr Ballistic tip in the 25-06? Interested in hearing about results. Playing with one now. GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
Looks like perfect performance.
I shot quite a few 100 grain nosler BTs in my 257 Roberts and it worked great on deer. Not sure how they act with the added juice of a 25-06 though The same in my book. That is a tough little bullet that seems to rock deer. Beretzs Have you used the 100 gr Ballistic tip in the 25-06? Interested in hearing about results. Playing with one now. GreggH
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
Thanks 10guage. Interesting reading. The comments by Dogzapper were particularly of note.
GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 519
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 519 |
I've had good luck with the 115gr Partition and 115gr Ballistic Tip, I have loaded up some 110gr Accubonds but haven't used them on a deer yet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
Thanks 10guage. Interesting reading. The comments by Dogzapper were particularly of note.
GreggH Those were the main point of the links. Probably other threads out there if you will do a little searching on the www Those were the 2 that popped up with the keywords that I entered.
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 02/05/23.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
Thanks 10guage. Interesting reading. The comments by Dogzapper were particularly of note.
GreggH Those were the main point of the links. Probably other threads out there if you will do a little searching on the www Those were the 2 that popped up with the keywords that I entered. 10gauge, thanks for digging up those threads. They’ve got me thinking. I ran into a guy at the range who hunts only bc with a 25/06. He was convinced that lighter bullets performed better on deer than the 117s and 120s. Dog zapper is certainly a believer. We hunt at much shorter ranges here and I don't know how much difference that may make but it’s worth a try. I’ll see if I can find a 100 gr load my rifle likes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,251
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,251 |
this year is my 1st year using Hammer bullets for deer and antelope hunting the Hammer bullets work well and are the most accurate bullet i have ever shot out of 257 Weather mag. Ruger # 1`s and my Weatherby Mark 5 and my son`s same Ruger #1 rifle too . i have also had great results out of my 22 K-Honet using Hammer bullets. i do like Nosler Partitions and Swift A-Frame but the Hammer bullets for me are more accurate in the 25 caliber rifles i own and use.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
Thanks 10guage. Interesting reading. The comments by Dogzapper were particularly of note.
GreggH Those were the main point of the links. Probably other threads out there if you will do a little searching on the www Those were the 2 that popped up with the keywords that I entered. 10gauge, thanks for digging up those threads. They’ve got me thinking. I ran into a guy at the range who hunts only bc with a 25/06. He was convinced that lighter bullets performed better on deer than the 117s and 120s. Dog zapper is certainly a believer. We hunt at much shorter ranges here and I don't know how much difference that may make but it’s worth a try. I’ll see if I can find a 100 gr load my rifle likes. I am in the same boat. I like velocity. Match the bullet to the game. Lighter softer bullet on light soft game. Even a big deer is maybe 300#, hardly a big animal to me. I hunt in brush, a 50 yard shot would be long. From the early 80s until the last 5 or 6 years allmy 6mm shot was an 85 grain Sierra SP. Considered a varmint bullet but it has no trouble punching through deer, even on some shoulder shots. I have used the Sierra 100 whether boattail or flat base in the 25-06, it works fine as well. I did have a load in a Savage LR 25-06. Max of IMR-4350 & a 100 grain Ballistic Tip. 3/4" or so with regular primer but a Magnum primer cut that group down to around 1/2", don't forget to experiment a little. Never killed any game with it.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409
Campfire Tracker
|
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,409 |
this year is my 1st year using Hammer bullets for deer and antelope hunting the Hammer bullets work well and are the most accurate bullet i have ever shot out of 257 Weather mag. Ruger # 1`s and my Weatherby Mark 5 and my son`s same Ruger #1 rifle too . i have also had great results out of my 22 K-Honet using Hammer bullets. i do like Nosler Partitions and Swift A-Frame but the Hammer bullets for me are more accurate in the 25 caliber rifles i own and use. Now I have to look them up. I’m a veritable googlefoo whiz.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
this year is my 1st year using Hammer bullets for deer and antelope hunting the Hammer bullets work well and are the most accurate bullet i have ever shot out of 257 Weather mag. Ruger # 1`s and my Weatherby Mark 5 and my son`s same Ruger #1 rifle too . i have also had great results out of my 22 K-Honet using Hammer bullets. i do like Nosler Partitions and Swift A-Frame but the Hammer bullets for me are more accurate in the 25 caliber rifles i own and use. Now I have to look them up. I’m a veritable googlefoo whiz. You have a PM.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,461
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,461 |
Looks like perfect performance.
I shot quite a few 100 grain nosler BTs in my 257 Roberts and it worked great on deer. Not sure how they act with the added juice of a 25-06 though The same in my book. That is a tough little bullet that seems to rock deer. Beretzs Have you used the 100 gr Ballistic tip in the 25-06? Interested in hearing about results. Playing with one now. GreggH A mate shot a red deer hind with the 100gn Ball. Tip in his .25-06. The bullet exited a side on chest shot.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,286
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,286 |
The 100 gr NBT were all I used in my 25-06 until TSX came along.
They are both potent deer killers but I like the TSX better.
CK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
Looks like perfect performance.
I shot quite a few 100 grain nosler BTs in my 257 Roberts and it worked great on deer. Not sure how they act with the added juice of a 25-06 though The same in my book. That is a tough little bullet that seems to rock deer. Beretzs Have you used the 100 gr Ballistic tip in the 25-06? Interested in hearing about results. Playing with one now. GreggH Gregg, we’ve shot a few with the Federal Premium 100 BTs, Rem 100 Core Lokts and hand loaded 100’s using RL22 for 3300 and they crushed deer. Nothing was less than excellent. I was blown away how well the 100 BT worked, even at hyper speed.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
Looks like perfect performance.
I shot quite a few 100 grain nosler BTs in my 257 Roberts and it worked great on deer. Not sure how they act with the added juice of a 25-06 though The same in my book. That is a tough little bullet that seems to rock deer. Beretzs Have you used the 100 gr Ballistic tip in the 25-06? Interested in hearing about results. Playing with one now. GreggH Gregg, we’ve shot a few with the Federal Premium 100 BTs, Rem 100 Core Lokts and hand loaded 100’s using RL22 for 3300 and they crushed deer. Nothing was less than excellent. I was blown away how well the 100 BT worked, even at hyper speed. Beretzs. Thanks for the response. Going to try some to see how they shoot in the rifle I will be doing load development with as well as my .25-284. GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
Boy, that’s the other part of them, they just seem to wanna shoot great. One of the easy accurate bullets.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
Used the 115 grain CT Ballistic Tips pretty extensively on deer and hogs. Have never used the 100 grain due to velocity concerns. Apparently I need to rethink that.
GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
Used the 115 grain CT Ballistic Tips pretty extensively on deer and hogs. Have never used the 100 grain due to velocity concerns. Apparently I need to rethink that.
GreggH If those 115 are fast killers there is no reason to switch. Buddy shot em 20+ years ago on 2 deer. He didn't complain but he switches guns, loads and bullets like underwear.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
10’
Rest assured if they shoot well a deer will catch one and his fall.
GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
10’
Rest assured if they shoot well a deer will catch one and his fall.
GreggH Hell yeah…. They might be the second coming on your bucks Greg. If I remember correct they aren’t really deep in the chest and that 100 BT should be excellent. I use the 100 grains Swift Scirrocos mostly now, but I’d have zero problems switching back to 100 BTs.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,147
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,147 |
I’m late to the party but an always overlooked bullet that is lightning death on deer is the 85gr Ballistic Tip. I’ve killed some nice bucks and a couple big caribou bulls with it doing 3800 out of my 257wby. It absolutely slushes their insides. No problems busting a shoulder either, in fact I put one through both scapulas of one caribou and it exited. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/KYD9jbKB/6-BE35501-E202-4-C6-E-8-ABD-B03993-F23-D39.jpg) The 100gr Solid base I came into a stash off has been excellent as well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
I’m late to the party but an always overlooked bullet that is lightning death on deer is the 85gr Ballistic Tip. I’ve killed some nice bucks and a couple big caribou bulls with it doing 3800 out of my 257wby. It absolutely slushes their insides. No problems busting a shoulder either, in fact I put one through both scapulas of one caribou and it exited. The 100gr Solid base I came into a stash off has been excellent as well. Will be trying them in my 257 Wby as well. Have been using the TTSX. But have been getting erratic accuracy out of them. Field period amazing but don’t like the performance on paper. Pretty cool your results fall in line with what Dogzapper recommended. GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
I’m late to the party but an always overlooked bullet that is lightning death on deer is the 85gr Ballistic Tip. I’ve killed some nice bucks and a couple big caribou bulls with it doing 3800 out of my 257wby. It absolutely slushes their insides. No problems busting a shoulder either, in fact I put one through both scapulas of one caribou and it exited. The 100gr Solid base I came into a stash off has been excellent as well. Yep. They label that as a Varmint BT but too tough for that from my experience.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
That’s interesting. I need to try them in my 250 Savage.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
Kid. Skimmed right past that you were using the 87 grain BT. What load were you using in the 257 Wby?
GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,147
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,147 |
Kid. Skimmed right past that you were using the 87 grain BT. What load were you using in the 257 Wby?
GreggH Just happened to have my load book beside the chair. Notes show 75gr of 7828.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
Noted. Never would have thought of using that bullet in the Wby.
GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,147
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,147 |
I never would have either. I had some loaded up I was shooting rocks and stuff with, just generally goofing around. Then when the plane flew away after dropping us out on the tundra I realized I had them instead of the box that had the 100gr Barnes in it. Having no other choice I shot a bull to see what would happen. He folded like a lawn chair with a hole through both shoulders.
A couple days later I was wondering if it was a fluke when a group of 7 bulls came by camp. So I snuck up to intercept them and shot the biggest one right through the shoulders. He too folded on impact. That bullet was under the offside hide after breaking both shoulders and the spine.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
Thanks Kid. I will be adding those to my test list.
GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 1
New Member
|
|
New Member
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 1 |
I have seen the same results in my 25-06 with 117 SST's. Good thing I only have a few left. Save those for pigs when it doesn't matter. Switched to 115 TSX .45 groups.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,733
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,733 |
My dad has used the 25-06 for a few years and hasn’t lost any, he’s used factory 120gr Corelokts on all of them.
Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 712
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 712 |
25-06 is and can be very hard on bullets with the speed it makes. Not that it matters on vermin, but big game needs a more robust bullet design.
For years, we always used partitions in the 25-06. Mostly The100 gr. Nothing but dead game and that's including a big ol' lead cow elk the wife snipped at 250 yards a few years back. Bullet cleaved almost four foot of elk on an angled shot before busting the left front leg and stopping again the hide of the leg.
There was one whitetail buck she shot @100 yards broadside with a hornady 100 gr. Interlock as it made its way up the opposite side of the draw from her. Buck Instantly dropped dead with not even a quiver and no exit hole. When we skinned the buck, the bullet had hit farther forward than she planned, hitting the spine just in front of the facing shoulder, turning that bullet into mostly unrecoverable lead and jacket shards. I did'nt blame the bullet, I blame the over 3000 f.p.s it was traveling when it hit the deer. Same bullet is just flat reliable in the 257 roberts, regardless of game.
Shot up most of the partitions now and made the move to the 115 gr. Accubond in the 25-06. The bonded build, weight and design of this bullet seem to be near perfection for the 25-06.
happiness is elbow deep in elk guts.
NRA life member
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,486
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,486 |
I’m late to the party but an always overlooked bullet that is lightning death on deer is the 85gr Ballistic Tip. I’ve killed some nice bucks and a couple big caribou bulls with it doing 3800 out of my 257wby. It absolutely slushes their insides. No problems busting a shoulder either, in fact I put one through both scapulas of one caribou and it exited. The 100gr Solid base I came into a stash off has been excellent as well. Cool photo. The little hunter, nice rack, purposeful looking rifle. Good stuff. I hadn't considered the 85 grain Ballistic Tip for deer. Interesting thought, thanks. Yes, years ago I got some of those 100 grain Solid Base bullets when SPS was selling them. Accurate and deadly, no doubt. Mine are for the 6mm Remington though, not a .257" rifle. Regards, Guy
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
Shot up most of the partitions now and made the move to the 115 gr. Accubond in the 25-06. The bonded build, weight and design of this bullet seem to be near perfection for the 25-06. Curious : were those bullets 115 Ballistic Tips or 110 Accubonds?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,078
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,078 |
Just curious here… if none of the three deer were found and no blood or hair was found, how do you know you hit them in the boiler room? Was there any brush that could have deflected the bullets? Were the deer moving? What were the ranges of the shots?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 150,854
Campfire Savant
|
|
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 150,854 |
Used the 115 grain CT Ballistic Tips pretty extensively on deer and hogs. Have never used the 100 grain due to velocity concerns. Apparently I need to rethink that.
GreggH I use the 115’s, no complaints in a 25-06
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,251
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,251 |
i am a speed freak i shot last fall 2022 103 gr. Hammer hunter bullets , Reloader 25 powder, Fed.215 primers , used Fed. cases and new Nosler cases at 3680 FPS was the average ,my 3 shot groups out of 3 different rifles were all 1/2 - 3/4 groups at 100 yards. my rifles shot much better with this load than ever before. the rifles i used off my cement bench were 2 - Ruger #1`s with Brux barrels and a Weatherby mark 5 Accumark all 3 rifles shot great . this powder load is in the Berger reloading book and Berger`s ballistic program can be used also for this bullet too .
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,621
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,621 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
Yeah it was. I enjoyed that.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,196
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,196 |
117g sierra btsp is a bullet worth building a rifle around for shortish shooting.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
Keith: What is shortish shooting. Can you elaborate? Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,799
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,799 |
I built my .257 Ackley back in the late '70s primarily for a deer and antelope rifle, and through the years it's made a pile of one shot kills on a varaiety of critters from prairie dogs to elk. My favorite bullet for it has been the 117 grain Sierra GameKing, but I've also had good results with the 120 gr Hornady HPFB, and the Nosler 115 gr BT. Two of the most impressive kills that I've made with this rifle and 117 gr Sierra bullets were on prairie dogs and on my 2nd largest 6x6 bull elk. On one eastern Montana antelope hunt, I crossed a prairie dog town walking back to my truck. One mound had 3 prairie dogs standing in a straight line. I layed down prone with all 3 dogs straight away from me. It was a 125 yard shot and the 117 gr Sierra bullet literally exploded the first two and cut the third one in half. The first year that I hunted in one of Montana's Unlimited bighorn sheep units I backpacked a camp in by myself. By the third morning I hadn't seen any sheep and I was pretty discouraged. Shortly after leaving camp that morning I heard an elk bugling fairly close to me. Each time he bugled, he sounded closer so I just knelt down and waited for him. The portion of that unit that is in the Wilderness Area was also open early for deer and elk and I had an elk tag in my pocket. As he got closer I first saw the ivory tips of his dark brown 6x6 antlers and that ended my ram hunt that year. When he stopped broadside and bugled about 75 yards from me I put a 117 gr Sierra just behind his right shoulder. He dropped dead right there. My bullet hit a rib going in and pieces of the bullet and rib shredded his lungs, went through his heart, but didn't exit his opposite rib cage. In the last 45 years I've used that rifle for almost all of my deer and antelope hunting. I also used it in the '80 and '90s on three Unlimited unit bighorn rams and a Dall ram in Canada's Mackenzie Mountains. All of those rams were one shot kills with 117 gr Sierra bullets. The longest shot was 206 yards on my Dall ram. It was an uphill shot that entered just behind his right shoulder and exited high behind his left shoulder. He also just fell dead where he was standing. The exit hole is just a small dot under his left horn in this picture... ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/6Wkui3Xl.jpg)
Last edited by buffybr; 02/22/23.
SAVE 200 ELK, KILL A WOLF
NRA Endowment Life Member
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,286
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,286 |
Great story and nice ram.
CK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
Buff,
Good post. Interesting nobody on this thread has said a thing about BC or turrets. Everyone has only posted about field success. Funny how the 25 caliber guys seem to be able to find and kill game.
GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
The bc on most .25 bullets is absolutely pathetic. Instead of being content with the poor bc bullets we should be asking for 100, 110, 115, 120 grain bullets that have bc's over .5 and run in 7 twist barrels. At least we are seeing a few bullets around 130-135 grain weight with decent bc's. Sure the 100-120's do ok at close to medium ranges, but for the longer shots, a sub .400 bc doesn't cut it. It's 2023, not 1950.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
Rifle.
What caliber 25’s do you shoot?
GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
.25 caliber. If you mean chamberings: Souper Improved. Was building a very small .25 to use the 100 grain ballistic tip, but its bc is so poor, I had to switch at the last moment to 6mm. The problem is the throating. If you put a fast twist barrel on (in the hope that they may release a decent bc medium weight bullet in the near future) and throat for a current low bc bullet, it's going to be the wrong throat for if they ever release a high bc bullet in that weight.
Last edited by Riflehunter; 02/21/23.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
.25 caliber. If you mean chamberings: Souper Improved. Was building a very small .25 to use the 100 ballistic tip, but its bc is so poor, I had to switch at the last moment to 6mm. Were you really trying to stretch it out? I know they’re not awesome but mine makes it to 600 yards pretty nicely. I won’t deny that slicker bullets are nice though but for the distances I shoot deer mostly BC doesn’t make a huge deal.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
At most hunting distances as you say, it doesn't make a huge difference...just a small difference. But for that small percentage of longer shots it does make a difference especially in terms of wind-drift, but also drop (especially if you don't dial in) and impact velocity. There are better calibers for the longer shots such as 6mm and 6.5mm. So why disadvantage yourself on the longer shots? If they made a .257 100 grain bullet with a bc of .5 or more, more than one bullet of 110 grains with a bc of around .570 and 120 grain bullets with bc of near .6, then you would have a wonderful caliber that gives up next to nothing at close to medium range but gains significantly at longer range. 7 twist should become the new .257 standard twist.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
What are your longer shots on game animals?
GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
A long shot at an animal with a less-than-optimal rest, with a small caliber is anything over about 350 yards. This probably equates to what most people say is 700 yards. Very few of those who say they shoot game with less-than-optimal rests at longer distances than about 400 yards, actually do so on a consistent basis. Anything over 300 yards, the advantages of a higher bc becomes more apparent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
Riflehunter: many of us don't need or want to shoot deer at over 300 yards. Bullets with a BC of about .4 (ore even less, gasp!) have worked fine for me since I took my first deer in 1955. I even find round nose bullets to be effective in many situations.
If you want, or need, to shoot deer at longer ranges, more power to you. No need to denigrate the vast majority of hunters for whom shooting at long range is not important or not possible.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,474
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,474 |
The 117 gr sierra bt worked well in a 25-06 that I hunted with for several years. Rag horn elk, about 300 yds dropped where shot.
Several deer and Antelope also went down with 1 shot each. Then someone stole it out of my car. I never replaced it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,476
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,476 |
Had Bad Luck with The 80Gr TTSX's..I Shoot One Small Buck 4 Times.. Recovered 3 of The 4.. May Have Been Leaning On Them a Little To Hard.. 3677FPS.. When To The 115 B.T.'s And Have Been More Than Happy With The 3 Whitetails and Bear...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
Accuracy and bullet performance have been my criteria for big game hunting for the last 35 years. Never has BC caused me to pass on a animal. Every 25 caliber bullet I have tried has worked, and this has ranged from a small 25 (25 BR AI) to a large 25 (257 Wby).
GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
Ok, so let's say you've settled on the Sierra 117 BTSP in a .25-06 @ 3000 fps. And let's say that you don't shoot over 300 yards. Now with a bc of .410 sighted in 2.6 inches high at 100 yds it zeroes at 250 yds and has 4.9 inches drift at 250 yards in a 10 mph cross-wind. Let's suppose that same 117 bullet had a bc of .610 (which is not unreasonable). Still sighted in at 2.6 inches high at 100 yds, at 250 yds its 0.4" high (negligible difference) but wind-drift is only 3.2 inches instead of 4.9 inches. At 300 yards the difference in drift is 7.3 inches versus 4.6 inches and nearly an inch less drop. So even if limiting your shots to 300 yards, it would be better to have higher bc .25 cal projectiles. Instead of defending these poor bc .257 projectiles, you all should be doing what I'm doing- advocating an improvement in their bc.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
Ok, so let's say you've settled on the Sierra 117 BTSP in a .25-06 @ 3000 fps. And let's say that you don't shoot over 300 yards. Now with a bc of .410 sighted in 2.6 inches high at 100 yds it zeroes at 250 yds and has 4.9 inches drift at 250 yards in a 10 mph cross-wind. Let's suppose that same 117 bullet had a bc of .610 (which is not unreasonable). Still sighted in at 2.6 inches high at 100 yds, at 250 yds its 0.4" high (negligible difference) but wind-drift is only 3.2 inches instead of 4.9 inches. At 300 yards the difference in drift is 7.3 inches versus 4.6 inches and nearly an inch less drop. So even if limiting your shots to 300 yards, it would be better to have higher bc .25 cal projectiles. Instead of defending these poor bc .257 projectiles, you all should be doing what I'm doing- advocating an improvement in their bc. Totally agree, I'll never give away BC, but I do have a couple cool 25's I like to hunt with and work great for me. I also have the smattering of 243, 264, 284's, etc that handle the longer, pointier, bitchier bullets. But none of it makes a real difference at the ranges or the places the 25's get hunted. I still don't have too much trouble out to 600 with the 25's as long as the winds aren't hammering, but until I get up to the Mashburn or RUM nothing in between really does much better either.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
It shouldn't be the case that if you want a .257 hunting bullet in the 100-120 grain range with a good bc, there's only one option at 110 grains that's a mono. Otherwise, you're forced to drop down to 6mm or up to 6.5. You can get a 90 grain hunting bullet in 6mm with a bc of .490, a 100 grain hunting bullet in 6mm with a bc of .515, a 123 grain hunting 6.5mm bullet with a bc of .510 but there's no 100 grain .257 anywhere near .500. Instead, you're looking at a pathetic .393. There's also no 115-120 grain .257 bullet that has a reasonable bc. I could just blame the bullet manufacturers, but it's also the .257 owners at fault (by not creating the demand) who are just satisfied with burying their heads in the sand and thinking that because they mainly shoot short to medium ranges, bc has no significance. Or alternatively, they use an invalid argument that so long as they have reasonable accuracy (at 100 yards) and quite good terminal performance, "who cares about bc".
Last edited by Riflehunter; 02/22/23.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
I don't disagree. I will put a 7.5 on my gun when it's time. For right now, I am still working on wearing out my current barrel.
The 257 bullets are slowly tricking in. I don't know if anyone is holding their head in the sand but until makers start putting them on factory guns it won't change too much. We're in the minority with the heavier, longer, High BC'ed bullets. If the makers start building quick twisted guns guys can still shoot 100 BT's but also the 130+ bullets starting to trickle out.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
I never would have either. I had some loaded up I was shooting rocks and stuff with, just generally goofing around. Then when the plane flew away after dropping us out on the tundra I realized I had them instead of the box that had the 100gr Barnes in it. Having no other choice I shot a bull to see what would happen. He folded like a lawn chair with a hole through both shoulders.
A couple days later I was wondering if it was a fluke when a group of 7 bulls came by camp. So I snuck up to intercept them and shot the biggest one right through the shoulders. He too folded on impact. That bullet was under the offside hide after breaking both shoulders and the spine. I bet that'd be sweet in my little 250 Savage!
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
Ok, so let's say you've settled on the Sierra 117 BTSP in a .25-06 @ 3000 fps. And let's say that you don't shoot over 300 yards. Now with a bc of .410 sighted in 2.6 inches high at 100 yds it zeroes at 250 yds and has 4.9 inches drift at 250 yards in a 10 mph cross-wind. Let's suppose that same 117 bullet had a bc of .610 (which is not unreasonable). Still sighted in at 2.6 inches high at 100 yds, at 250 yds its 0.4" high (negligible difference) but wind-drift is only 3.2 inches instead of 4.9 inches. At 300 yards the difference in drift is 7.3 inches versus 4.6 inches and nearly an inch less drop. So even if limiting your shots to 300 yards, it would be better to have higher bc .25 cal projectiles. Instead of defending these poor bc .257 projectiles, you all should be doing what I'm doing- advocating an improvement in their bc. First off, I don't think I have shot at a deer at 300 yards more than once. And that was a wounded deer that was escaping. Second, I there is a 10mph wind at 3 oclock, I'm for sure not to shoot at a deer at 300 yards even on the rare occasion that I would see one at that distance. Lastly, a 2.5" difference in wind drift is insignificant. At 300 yards the group from even a 1MOA rifle, from field positions is bigger than that. Bottom line, for me and the vast majority of deer hunters, BC above .4 us superfluous. If having a super BC turns your crank, by all means go for it and enjoy your/our sport. I think I'll not be joining the high BC band wagon.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
Ok, so let's say you've settled on the Sierra 117 BTSP in a .25-06 @ 3000 fps. And let's say that you don't shoot over 300 yards. Now with a bc of .410 sighted in 2.6 inches high at 100 yds it zeroes at 250 yds and has 4.9 inches drift at 250 yards in a 10 mph cross-wind. Let's suppose that same 117 bullet had a bc of .610 (which is not unreasonable). Still sighted in at 2.6 inches high at 100 yds, at 250 yds its 0.4" high (negligible difference) but wind-drift is only 3.2 inches instead of 4.9 inches. At 300 yards the difference in drift is 7.3 inches versus 4.6 inches and nearly an inch less drop. So even if limiting your shots to 300 yards, it would be better to have higher bc .25 cal projectiles. Instead of defending these poor bc .257 projectiles, you all should be doing what I'm doing- advocating an improvement in their bc. First off, I don't think I have shot at a deer at 300 yards more than once. And that was a wounded deer that was escaping. Second, I there is a 10mph wind at 3 oclock, I'm for sure not to shoot at a deer at 300 yards even on the rare occasion that I would see one at that distance. Lastly, a 2.5" difference in wind drift is insignificant. At 300 yards the group from even a 1MOA rifle, from field positions is bigger than that. Bottom line, for me and the vast majority of deer hunters, BC above .4 us superfluous. If having a super BC turns your crank, by all means go for it and enjoy your/our sport. I think I'll not be joining the high BC band wagon. Thanks SouthTexas for taking the time to respond. Here are my counter points: 1. Animals suitable to shoot with a .257 are not just limited to deer. For example pronghorn, aoudad, sheep, mountain goat, coyote, wolf etc are often shot at more than 300 yards. And while most of the deer that are shot may have been at less than 300 yards, that doesn't mean that I would want a cartridge and bullet that wasn't very capable at well beyond 300 yards...especially if I didn't have to give up anything to get it. 2. If you've got a really good buck at 300 yards, and you can't get closer and it's near the end of your hunt then a high bc bullet is a better option (all other things being equal) than a low bc bullet for having less wind drift - whether it's a 5 mph, 10 mph or 15 mph wind. And it's not just less wind-drift. It's also a slightly flatter trajectory with less drop and it's also a slightly greater impact velocity. I would take the shot. 3. The less wind-drift for a bullet the better, whether its 2.7" less or 1" less. If a 300 yard group from a 1 MOA rifle is already big enough, you certainly don't want to compound that and make it bigger with more wind-drift if you can use a bullet that doesn't drift as much. And again, it's not only less wind-drift but a flatter trajectory if you don't dial in 4. Saying a bc above .4 is superfluous is like saying having a bullet with superb accuracy is superfluous to having reasonable accuracy, and superb terminal performance is superfluous to reasonable terminable performance. 5. Having a good bc of around .5 for medium weight bullets to around .6 for slightly heavier bullets isn't "super bc" in 2023, when compared to other calibers on each side of .257 - it's just what one should expect given our current technology and understanding.
Last edited by Riflehunter; 02/22/23.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
Thanks for the response. It's ok to agree to disagree. I bought a 6.5CM to see what all the fuss is about. I really like it. Very accurate right out of the box with factory ammo. Here's the part you will disagree with: For deer hunting, I prefer 120gr bullets in the CM. At 2900ish, they are just right for my hunting needs. In fact it is a ballistic twin to my beloved 257R. I have no need or interest in 140gr bullets in the CM. If I'm after bigger game than deer and want a heavier bullet I'll use a 270/280/'06/7mag. Probably with a bullet with the BC of a ping pong ball  . Works for me... If I were into long range target completion, the high BCs would be a necessity. But not for my hunting needs. YMMV
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,885
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,885 |
It shouldn't be the case that if you want a .257 hunting bullet in the 100-120 grain range with a good bc, there's only one option at 110 grains that's a mono. Otherwise, you're forced to drop down to 6mm or up to 6.5. You can get a 90 grain hunting bullet in 6mm with a bc of .490, a 100 grain hunting bullet in 6mm with a bc of .515, a 123 grain hunting 6.5mm bullet with a bc of .510 but there's no 100 grain .257 anywhere near .500. Instead, you're looking at a pathetic .393. There's also no 115-120 grain .257 bullet that has a reasonable bc. I could just blame the bullet manufacturers, but it's also the .257 owners at fault (by not creating the demand) who are just satisfied with burying their heads in the sand and thinking that because they mainly shoot short to medium ranges, bc has no significance. Or alternatively, they use an invalid argument that so long as they have reasonable accuracy (at 100 yards) and quite good terminal performance, "who cares about bc". Your hypothetical 257 bullet wouldn't stabilize in the 1-10 twists of factory 25 caliber rifles, hence the reason said bullet doesn't exist.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
It shouldn't be the case that if you want a .257 hunting bullet in the 100-120 grain range with a good bc, there's only one option at 110 grains that's a mono. Otherwise, you're forced to drop down to 6mm or up to 6.5. You can get a 90 grain hunting bullet in 6mm with a bc of .490, a 100 grain hunting bullet in 6mm with a bc of .515, a 123 grain hunting 6.5mm bullet with a bc of .510 but there's no 100 grain .257 anywhere near .500. Instead, you're looking at a pathetic .393. There's also no 115-120 grain .257 bullet that has a reasonable bc. I could just blame the bullet manufacturers, but it's also the .257 owners at fault (by not creating the demand) who are just satisfied with burying their heads in the sand and thinking that because they mainly shoot short to medium ranges, bc has no significance. Or alternatively, they use an invalid argument that so long as they have reasonable accuracy (at 100 yards) and quite good terminal performance, "who cares about bc". Your hypothetical 257 bullet wouldn't stabilize in the 1-10 twists of factory 25 caliber rifles, hence the reason said bullet doesn't exist. I mentioned in my first post that 7 twist should become standard for these high bc bullets. There was no need for me to keep mentioning 7 twist barrels. High bc .257 bullets do exist...and they have fast twist barrels.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,885
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,885 |
A 7 twist standard is not going to happen.
The high bc 257 bullets aren't in weights that have any advantage over 6.5s.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
A 7 twist standard is not going to happen.
The high bc 257 bullets aren't in weights that have any advantage over 6.5s. Yes, but if they started to make 100-120 grain high bc bullets (which is what I'm advocating) then there would be an advantage over both 6mm and 6.5mm, via that weight category. You need a 7 twist for the high bc mono bullets in that weight category.
Last edited by Riflehunter; 02/22/23.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,857 |
A high B.C. 100 grain .257 bullet??
High B.C. mono?
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
A high B.C. 100 grain .257 bullet??
High B.C. mono? 110 grain Badlands Super-bulldozer, .570 bc, requires 7 twist, mono.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
Hey, if it sells more rifles and bullets, and guys enjoy experimenting, I’m all for it. But I fail to see where high BC bullets in .257 would have a significant advantage over BOTH 6mm and 6.5mm.
Just curious, do you happen to be a stockholder in Badlands Super-bulldozer? ;-)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,885
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,885 |
But I fail to see where high BC bullets in .257 would have a significant advantage over BOTH 6mm and 6.5mm. You don't see the advantage because there's no advantage to see, unless you own a barrel company that sells fast twist 257 blanks or have a vested interest in Badlands bullets!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
Hmm… looked on their website:
6.5 135gr; BC=.700
6mm 100gr; BC=.600
257 110gr; BC= .570
Where is the “advantage “ ?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 631
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 631 |
I suspect we will see a 25 Creedmoor or a 25 PRC of some sort (25-08 with 30 degree shoulder?) with a fast twist before long. The trend in shooting sports is certainly in that direction.
ttpoz
in silvam ne ligna feras
(don't carry logs into the forest)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
Hmm… looked on their website:
6.5 135gr; BC=.700
6mm 100gr; BC=.600
257 110gr; BC= .570
Where is the “advantage “ ? The advantage is that bullets around 110 grain in .257 have less recoil than the 6.5 bullets around 123 or more grains and better sectional density than light bullets in 6.5mm, and more frontal area and weight than 6mm bullets around 90-100 grains and can be griven faster than 6mm bullets around 110 grains because of the larger bore. .257 bullets around 100-120 grains are the "Goldilocks" for all-round bullets for both small game, varmints and up to deer size game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
Hey, if it sells more rifles and bullets, and guys enjoy experimenting, I’m all for it. But I fail to see where high BC bullets in .257 would have a significant advantage over BOTH 6mm and 6.5mm.
Just curious, do you happen to be a stockholder in Badlands Super-bulldozer? ;-) Yes, I own the company. Is there anything wrong with that? No, I don't ...just kidding...no interest whatsoever.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
I suspect we will see a 25 Creedmoor or a 25 PRC of some sort (25-08 with 30 degree shoulder?) with a fast twist before long. The trend in shooting sports is certainly in that direction. Yes, modern correctly designed cases with the right twist barrel and right throat and hopefully shooting .257 bullets with a good bc. It would be great. But you would still get some "Neanderthals" complaining that it is no better than their old....whatever.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
And the 6mm has less recoil than the 257,
And the 6.5 has greater frontal area than the 257.
Minutiae! And you could hunt for a lifetime and never tell the difference in the field.
But if it turns your crank, carry on!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
And the 6mm has less recoil than the 257,
And the 6.5 has greater frontal area than the 257.
Minutiae! And you could hunt for a lifetime and never tell the difference in the field.
But if it turns your crank, carry on! There does seem to be quite a few people that believe the .257 has advantages over other bore sizes, or at the very least, is different enough to justify owning one.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
I suspect we will see a 25 Creedmoor or a 25 PRC of some sort (25-08 with 30 degree shoulder?) with a fast twist before long. The trend in shooting sports is certainly in that direction. Brass is already around and apparently in enough demand for someone to make it.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
I suspect we will see a 25 Creedmoor or a 25 PRC of some sort (25-08 with 30 degree shoulder?) with a fast twist before long. The trend in shooting sports is certainly in that direction. Brass is already around and apparently in enough demand for someone to make it. Don't tell the "Flat Earth Society" that...they will never believe it!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
I suspect we will see a 25 Creedmoor or a 25 PRC of some sort (25-08 with 30 degree shoulder?) with a fast twist before long. The trend in shooting sports is certainly in that direction. Brass is already around and apparently in enough demand for someone to make it. Don't tell the "Flat Earth Society" that...they will never believe it! Ha. I like them all. While it’d be cool to see 7 twist 25-06’s im okay with making one if I really wanted one. To me it’s fun messing with them all.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,453
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,453 |
That`s kinda neat..been sizing the 6.5 Creed brass for my 250 AI. Works fine.
Do not disagree that the .25 cal. has been neglected for years when it comes to bullet developement, but having hunted, shot and reloaded the 250 for more years than I care to count, the .25 cal. just has not been a popular number. Hell, when I rebarreled my AI some 18 yrs ago, I don`t believe any barrel maker offered a faster twist than 10. Plus, no bullets to take advantage of the twist rate either. So up to this point, no interest in the .25.
BTB, there are a few bullets made currently that have decent BC`s, one of which I`ve used with good results on WT deer. Hornadys 110 ELDX at an advertized G1 of .465, pushed to 2975 and the Berger 115, advertized BC of .483, pushed to 2810. Have not killed anything with the Bergers, except milk jugs at 6.
My son is currently building a 257AI, 7 twist PAC-NOR. We`ll see how that works.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
And the 6mm has less recoil than the 257,
And the 6.5 has greater frontal area than the 257.
Minutiae! And you could hunt for a lifetime and never tell the difference in the field.
But if it turns your crank, carry on! There does seem to be quite a few people that believe the .257 has advantages over other bore sizes, or at the very least, is different enough to justify owning one. And I am one of those quarter bore nuts. Been shooting a25/06 since the early 60s when it was still a wildcat. For the last 30 years, my favorite deer rifles have been the 257R, 257AI, and the 25/06. The point is, for me and 99% of hunters, improving the BC from .4 to .57 would make no significant difference . If you want to shoot deer at long range or targets at long range, go for it. And since we have stooped to name calling, l guess we Neanderthals do giggle at you boys who have to have the latest and greatest. :-)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
I think because of the substantial difference between the shape of most current .257 bullets and any future high bc bullets, the throating would have to change on all the old SAAMI specs, otherwise the loaded cartridges will be running out of magazine length or alternatively running out of neck grip on the bullets because of the more radical boat-tails and pointy tips. So newly designed cartridge cases would be the way to get around this problem. This is the problem I faced, I couldn't get the throat right for both future .257 bullets and the current ones...so had to reluctantly go to 6mm.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
And the 6mm has less recoil than the 257,
And the 6.5 has greater frontal area than the 257.
Minutiae! And you could hunt for a lifetime and never tell the difference in the field.
But if it turns your crank, carry on! There does seem to be quite a few people that believe the .257 has advantages over other bore sizes, or at the very least, is different enough to justify owning one. And I am one of those quarter bore nuts. Been shooting a25/06 since the early 60s when it was still a wildcat. For the last 30 years, my favorite deer rifles have been the 257R, 257AI, and the 25/06. The point is, for me and 99% of hunters, improving the BC from .4 to .57 would make no significant difference . If you want to shoot deer at long range or targets at long range, go for it. And since we have stooped to name calling, l guess we Neanderthals do giggle at you boys who have to have the latest and greatest. :-) Don't be concerned one little bit about name calling on internet forums. And in any case, it's very mild name calling. It's not like you've been called the holiest of holies. And one more thing that is a law: It is always better to have a more efficient bullet, ceterus parabus. Please understand this one point.
Last edited by Riflehunter; 02/23/23.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
I think because of the substantial difference between the shape of most current .257 bullets and any future high bc bullets, the throating would have to change on all the old SAAMI specs, otherwise the loaded cartridges will be running out of magazine length or alternatively running out of neck grip on the bullets because of the more radical boat-tails and pointy tips. So newly designed cartridge cases would be the way to get around this problem. This is the problem I faced, I couldn't get the throat right for both future .257 bullets and the current ones...so had to reluctantly go to 6mm. I think the throat on the current guns might work fine. The higher BC deals have a longer nose and an ogive further back. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the standard throat work reasonably well. But it’d take some measuring with them. I don’t have any of the current ones on my shelf.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
I think because of the substantial difference between the shape of most current .257 bullets and any future high bc bullets, the throating would have to change on all the old SAAMI specs, otherwise the loaded cartridges will be running out of magazine length or alternatively running out of neck grip on the bullets because of the more radical boat-tails and pointy tips. So newly designed cartridge cases would be the way to get around this problem. This is the problem I faced, I couldn't get the throat right for both future .257 bullets and the current ones...so had to reluctantly go to 6mm. I think the throat on the current guns might work fine. The higher BC deals have a longer nose and an ogive further back. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the standard throat work reasonably well. But it’d take some measuring with them. I don’t have any of the current ones on my shelf. On the heavier high bc bullets, like the Hornady 134 grain, it would work if you currently have plenty of magazine length. My comment was more in relation to say a hypothetical high bc 100 grain bullet which would be much shorter than a 134 grain bullet and you would probably run out of grip, if needing to seat close to the lands to get good accuracy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
Could be. All depends on the nose design.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382 |
I suspect we will see a 25 Creedmoor or a 25 PRC of some sort (25-08 with 30 degree shoulder?) with a fast twist before long. The trend in shooting sports is certainly in that direction. Yes, modern correctly designed cases with the right twist barrel and right throat and hopefully shooting .257 bullets with a good bc. It would be great. But you would still get some "Neanderthals" complaining that it is no better than their old....whatever. That sounds so much like the new shooters that thought the 243 was so much better than the 257 and the 250. It was the trend, you know. The old guys didn't know anything. Then there are those that think the 6.5 Creedmoor is so much better than the 6.5x55. It was the new thing you know. The old guys that liked the Swde just are not in tune with what the trend is. In silhouette shooting in the 70's the new 7 mm International was the best Silhouette cartridge and so many just had to have it. Of course, we see 7mm International chambered guns everywhere now. When the 7mm RM came out, it was the best cartridge that ever hit the streets, it was the trend and those that were stuck with their measly 270's just were not cutting the mustard. They were old geezers that just didn't know about the trend.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
I suspect we will see a 25 Creedmoor or a 25 PRC of some sort (25-08 with 30 degree shoulder?) with a fast twist before long. The trend in shooting sports is certainly in that direction. Yes, modern correctly designed cases with the right twist barrel and right throat and hopefully shooting .257 bullets with a good bc. It would be great. But you would still get some "Neanderthals" complaining that it is no better than their old....whatever. That sounds so much like the new shooters that thought the 243 was so much better than the 257 and the 250. It was the trend, you know. The old guys didn't know anything. Then there are those that think the 6.5 Creedmoor is so much better than the 6.5x55. It was the new thing you know. The old guys that liked the Swde just are not in tune with what the trend is. In silhouette shooting in the 70's the new 7 mm International was the best Silhouette cartridge and so many just had to have it. Of course, we see 7mm International chambered guns everywhere now. When the 7mm RM came out, it was the best cartridge that ever hit the streets, it was the trend and those that were stuck with their measly 270's just were not cutting the mustard. They were old geezers that just didn't know about the trend. There's always the question of whether you change things to incorporate new technology or improvements, or whether you always keep things the same. Where do you draw the line? Should we all be still driving Model T Fords or more efficient modern cars?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
False analogy. There is obviously a huge between the vehicles produced 100 years ago and the current models. While the difference in bullet performance when comparing a BC of .4 and a BC of .57 at normal hunting ranges is imperceptible. At longer ranges, yes it would be a step forward.
Please explain why I should invest money in a new rifle or new fast twist barrel on an existing rifle when it would have absolutely no impact on performance in my deer hunting?
Gee, my new Corvette will leave my ‘56 keep in the dust on the freeway. But would not be an improvement over the jeep driving on the ranch.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382 |
Then there was a writer that wrote that cartridges for him would have a belt.
Synthetic stocks and actions that have so much steel around the ejection port to improve accuracy is a trend evidently. You "wet behind the ears" crowd can call your frenzy an improvement if you like, just don't expect everyone to stand up and yell, OH BOY!
Most of us that have been around a while have seen this frenzy over and over. Don't expect us to jump on everything new that comes down the pike, just because it is the trend and a so-called improvement.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
Come on young Bugger and Southtexas, it doesn't help any of those guys who want the more efficient high bc bullets in .257, if you two don't help ensure there's sufficient demand for the bullet companies to make them!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
I’d be all over ‘em if they offered any improvement
Go hammer on the guys that are raving about round nose Bullets and how wonderful their terminal performance is. With their BCs it’s a wonder they don’t hit the ground before reaching the 🦌
Or look at the thread comparing the 6.5 CM to the 7-08. You’d think the CM would be the runaway winner what with all the high BC Bullets and fast twist rifles available
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
I’d be all over ‘em if they offered any improvement
Go hammer on the guys that are raving about round nose Bullets and how wonderful their terminal performancew is. With their BCs it’s a wonder they don’t hit the ground before reaching the 🦌
Or look at the thread comparing the 6.5 CM to the 7-08. You’d think the CM would be the runaway winner what with all the high BC Bullets and fast twist rifles available I know! It’s a wonder people didn’t starve to death without all these bullets we have today. GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382 |
People try to make up for their handicap of lack of hunting skills with gadgets.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,340 |
Bugger it amazes me to see the contraptions people bring into the deer woods. Never had to twist a turret, there are no levels on my scopes, no rails and no bolt knobs from a ‘73 Nova. Somehow I fill all of my tags and in my state that makes for a pretty good season.
GreggH
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 507
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 507 |
Sierra might’ve discontinued them but the most awesome deer bullet for the 25-06 was the 120gr HPBT Gameking. Crazy accurate and never had a deer take a step.
I would give the Sierra 110gr TGK or Nosler 110 AB a try, if you can’t get the 120 HPBT’s.
For the Roberts, I’ve always liked 100gr Sierra GK or 100gr Nosler BT
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,486
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,486 |
My goodness, there are some hilarious comments in this thread. Thanks! The 25 is just fine, as are the 24's and the 26's... They're all so close... I surely do like my 25-06, and the 257 Wby as well. With the 25-06 I've brought down mule deer, pronghorn & coyote. Blew up a few rockchucks too as I recall. Bullets from Barnes, Nosler and Berger all worked great. Love those zippy smallish bore cartridges. Low recoil. Flat trajectory. Easy to shoot and kill quickly. What's not to like? ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/rbJ7wlmh.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/tXu4Weuh.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/0f7NpqUh.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/lsF7l3fh.jpg) Thanks all, the discussion of 25's brought back a lot of good memories, mostly hunting with my 25-06 Rem 700 CDL. Regards, Guy
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950 |
Anyone use the 80 gr Barnes TTSX on deer? It’s available recently and looks like it would work at 257R velocity. Not looking to shoot past 200 with it.
I used to only shoot shotguns and rimfires, then I made the mistake of getting a subscription to handloader.......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
Bob: the 80TTSX is the only bullet that I could find that consistently shot well in a very picky 257. it has worked very well on numerous deer. I like shoulder shots to drop them quickly in the thorny brush. The only one I had a problem with was a mature buck at just short of 300 yards quartering away. The bullet did not exit. No blood trail. Took a long time to find him.
For the purposes you described they should work well
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,799
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,799 |
My favorite corner on my Trophy Room. The 4 rams and the Wolverine were all one shot kills with 117 gr Sierra GameKing bullets from my .257 Ackley. Only the Dall ram and Wolverine were taken on a guided hunt. The longest shot on all of these animals was 206 yards on the Dall ram. The Mule Deer was a 30 yard shot with a patched round ball from my .45 caliber BP Kentucky percussion rifle. The Goat was less that a 100 yd shot with a 180 gr Nosler Partition from my .30 Gibbs. The Bighorn rams and the Goat were DIY solo hunts in Montana's Unlimited tag Bighorn units. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/j2g6vqjl.jpg)
SAVE 200 ELK, KILL A WOLF
NRA Endowment Life Member
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950 |
Bob: the 80TTSX is the only bullet that I could find that consistently shot well in a very picky 257. it has worked very well on numerous deer. I like shoulder shots to drop them quickly in the thorny brush. The only one I had a problem with was a mature buck at just short of 300 yards quartering away. The bullet did not exit. No blood trail. Took a long time to find him.
For the purposes you described they should work well South, Thanks for the report.
I used to only shoot shotguns and rimfires, then I made the mistake of getting a subscription to handloader.......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,219
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,219 |
People try to make up for their handicap of lack of hunting skills with gadgets. Bugger it amazes me to see the contraptions people bring into the deer woods. Never had to twist a turret, there are no levels on my scopes, no rails and no bolt knobs from a ‘73 Nova. Somehow I fill all of my tags and in my state that makes for a pretty good season.
GreggH Hear, hear! I agree entirely, on both counts.
My heart's in the mountains, my heart is not here.
My heart's in the mountains, chasing the deer.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,851
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,851 |
Sierra might’ve discontinued them but the most awesome deer bullet for the 25-06 was the 120gr HPBT Gameking. Crazy accurate and never had a deer take a step.
I would give the Sierra 110gr TGK or Nosler 110 AB a try, if you can’t get the 120 HPBT’s.
For the Roberts, I’ve always liked 100gr Sierra GK or 100gr Nosler BT I thought the 120hpbt was OK on broadside shots thru the ribs but didn't hold together worth a damn on bigger bones in the 25-06.. mb
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,822 |
Well… it WAS made by Sierra!! LOL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,251
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,251 |
Anyone use the 80 gr Barnes TTSX on deer? It’s available recently and looks like it would work at 257R velocity. Not looking to shoot past 200 with it. i just ordered 200 - 25 caliber - 75 gr. Hammer Hunter bullets ,i plan on using these bullets in my 257 Roberts rifle and Reloader 17 powder if it works out for deer hunting.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,007
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,007 |
Anyone use the 80 gr Barnes TTSX on deer? It’s available recently and looks like it would work at 257R velocity. Not looking to shoot past 200 with it. i just ordered 200 - 25 caliber - 75 gr. Hammer Hunter bullets ,i plan on using these bullets in my 257 Roberts rifle and Reloader 17 powder if it works out for deer hunting. That sounds interesting. Look forward to your report. DF
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,646
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,646 |
Anyone use the 80 gr Barnes TTSX on deer? It’s available recently and looks like it would work at 257R velocity. Not looking to shoot past 200 with it. i just ordered 200 - 25 caliber - 75 gr. Hammer Hunter bullets ,i plan on using these bullets in my 257 Roberts rifle and Reloader 17 powder if it works out for deer hunting. If? I'd suggest overkill but, hey, it's a hobby.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 95
Campfire Greenhorn
|
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 95 |
My .257 Roberts is a late 60's build, Springfield action, 25" #5 Shilen barrel and Pecan wood stock fully bedded. The load it loves is utilizing the Speer 100 grain spire points at 3010fps that will group under 1/2". I hunt deer and antelope with it and they have all been one and done. I don't shoot past 250yds and only take head shots with it. Yes, I've let critters pass 'cuz the shot wasn't there but the point being it does the job and I'm happy with the results.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950 |
The Barnes 80 gr. only dropped about 4" at 200 yards today. (Sierra 100gr spitzers, a bit more...... I know, "its made by Sierra") Was windy so I did not bring a rear rest. If this 722 shoots these Barnes this well after a good test with the front and rear bag and a half way calm day I believe I have found the 2023 Deer Rifle of choice and load development may be over. That will be a very long boring summer waiting for Fall. 257 Roberts, IMR4350, 200yds, Red Circle 1". ![[Linked Image from bobbutler.zenfolio.com]](https://bobbutler.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p1726325239-4.jpg)
I used to only shoot shotguns and rimfires, then I made the mistake of getting a subscription to handloader.......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,790
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,790 |
I'd have no qualms about deer hunting with the 100 grain Sierra.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,101
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,101 |
I'd have no qualms about deer hunting with the 100 grain Sierra. I quite using Sierra bullet to shoot game, preferring instead to use Hornadys, Noslers, or Speers, depending on the application. Knowing that a Partition is 100% dependable gives a person peace of mind. That said, folks should always use what they feel comfortable using and have a positive history with.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,790
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,790 |
Did you have trouble with the spitzers, or just the hollow points I know you discontinued using?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,382 |
Anyone use the 80 gr Barnes TTSX on deer? It’s available recently and looks like it would work at 257R velocity. Not looking to shoot past 200 with it. I just started using TTSX bullets. They’ve worked well. I plan on taking a 25 out this year - 250 or 257 preferably. If I do the TTSX’s may be what I’ll use. So far TTSX’s have shot excellently in the three rifles I’ve tried them in - 300 Savage in a 99, 30-06 700, and a 7x57 700 mountain rifle. I expect that they will shoot accurately in the 25’s too.
Last edited by Bugger; 04/29/23.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
|
|
|
|
|
614 members (10gaugemag, 1234, 16penny, 10Glocks, 1Longbow, 160user, 68 invisible),
2,054
guests, and
1,196
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,190,267
Posts18,448,289
Members73,899
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/J7pSrGRB/Screenshot-2024-03-16-at-13-00-21-U-S-Coast-Guard-ordered-to-allow-illegal-migrants-from-Haiti-to-e.png)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/qMjL6f8C/27-FD3-F35-D9-CF-4-FC0-AE24-D01508-F7-AF1-C.gif)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/G9RDVKXr/DSCN4329.jpg)
