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This turned up on my Quora feed, which appears to resist linking. Its by someone called Thierry Etienne Joseph Rotty who describes himself as a "Senior Controller at Nato". Dunno the truth of that but if you google his name he apparently comments quite frequently of military matters, past and present. A take on D Day I haven't heard before....

Could the US have landed on Omaha Beach on D Day with less casualties?

Of course.

If the Americans had followed British advice. The main problem was navigation. There were very few landmarks that could be used to determine ones position. So the British had scouted the coastline (some divers went ashore) and had constructed picket ships.These were small boats with a searchlight shining away from the coast. These searchlight were colored and had patterns in them that allowed
aircraft and ships to determine their position at night and at dawn.

Very simple, very effective. The Americans refused to use these. So the airborne troops missed most of their drop zones that night. At dawn, the US Navy shelled the wrong positions and the USAAF bombed the wrong positions. This means the German artillery in the dunes was still intact. On top of that, again ignoring all British advice, the Americans launched their amphibious tanks too soon and most sank.

But it gets worse. Omaha was defended by bunkers at both ends, but the middle was nearly undefended. Yet without those picket ships, US troops were landed smack in front of the intact bunkers at both edges. Those troops that were put ashore in the middle now faced the intact German artillery in the dunes. If you realize that in a modern war at least 75 % of casualties is caused by artillery fire, you realize in what a pickle these troops found themselves.

On to top it off, the supply craft landed in the wrong areas as well so the troops in the middle of Omaha were out of supplies rather quickly and under constant artillery fire. Forget all those stories about heavy machine gun fire and a high seawall....

[ A photograph here captioned "This is that famous seawall at Omaha, most photographs published in the US press were from Utah Beach".]

...Rather than admit the Americans screwed up, the American press started the myth of Omaha being the toughest nut to crack with heavy machine gun fire and an impenetrable seawall. The film the Longest Day (Hollywood) perpetuated that myth an Saving Private Ryan didn’t help either. In reality, Omaha was the least defended beach. You can still visit the fortification and the seawall today.

No once you realize what was really going on, you also understand why the tanks should have landed in the middle of Omaha Beach, here they could easily move into the dunes and clean up any remaining German resistance. That famous seawall should have worked in favour of the Americans.

Basically, it was arrogance that killed those young men, not the Germans.


I walked Omaha Beach even years back, now I wish I woulda spent more time. I'm not sure what his point is about the seawall, its a low affair as depicted in "Saving Private Ryan". What I wish I would have done is spend time on the sandy elevations above the beach (nowadays the military cemetery sits right up top and IIRC the side above the beach is fenced off). I dunno what fortifications remain there, I don't recall seeing a bunch above the beach, not like Point du Hoc for example.

Last edited by Birdwatcher; 01/31/23.

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Interesting


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Can’t really say with any auburn it sounds plausible. America did not take the British Admiralty’s advice on escorting convoys and blackouts along the shoreline. They lost a lot of tonage because of their arrogance. Mistakes were made.

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And all because the French had no balls in 1939


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ALL military battles from Concord to Guadalcanal to Thermopylae to Omaha Beach to Fallujah COULD have been fought differently. Every battle is able to be dissected and studied AFTER the fact. The benefit of hindsight being 20/20 is advantageous for the NEXT battle but it does nothing to change the past. I’ve never doubted that Omaha could’ve been fought in a multitude of different ways. Some of those changes in battle doctrine would have potentially saved lives while other changes to the battle plans at Omaha would’ve resulted in far greater casualties. It’s no different than the “butterfly affect”….

Who truly knows how much of a difference various changes in their initial approach to Omaha would’ve affected the overall outcome of the combined landing forces and the outcome and casualty figures for the ENTIRE allied “invasion”?

Learning from our mistakes is how we grow and become better and I don’t think there’s a shorter learning curve than when one is staring death in the face.

The reality is that old farts with outdated egos have always been the biggest danger to the young men in America. Whether they are dipshit politicians that view the lives of our sons as cheap and send our boys to fight and die for the benefit of the elite “protecting” our “vital interests”, which is code for money, oil and tyrannical power….or they’re politically motivated generals who are more concerned with their future political careers and padding their egos than they are about the lives of our boys.

Saying that the number of deaths in the battle for XYZ were higher because the egos of the brass were involved is the same as saying that the sun rose this morning…..it’s not hardly worth mentioning because it’s a known and universal truth.


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Well, next time, the British can save their own arses.


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Originally Posted by StGeorger
Well, next time, the British can save their own arses.

I doubt it.
wink


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Originally Posted by AcesNeights
ALL military battles from Concord to Guadalcanal to Thermopylae to Omaha Beach to Fallujah COULD have been fought differently. Every battle is able to be dissected and studied AFTER the fact. The benefit of hindsight being 20/20 is advantageous for the NEXT battle but it does nothing to change the past. I’ve never doubted that Omaha could’ve been fought in a multitude of different ways. Some of those changes in battle doctrine would have potentially saved lives while other changes to the battle plans at Omaha would’ve resulted in far greater casualties. It’s no different than the “butterfly affect”….

Who truly knows how much of a difference various changes in their initial approach to Omaha would’ve affected the overall outcome of the combined landing forces and the outcome and casualty figures for the ENTIRE allied “invasion”?

Learning from our mistakes is how we grow and become better and I don’t think there’s a shorter learning curve than when one is staring death in the face.

The reality is that old farts with outdated egos have always been the biggest danger to the young men in America. Whether they are dipshit politicians that view the lives of our sons as cheap and send our boys to fight and die for the benefit of the elite “protecting” our “vital interests”, which is code for money, oil and tyrannical power….or they’re politically motivated generals who are more concerned with their future political careers and padding their egos than they are about the lives of our boys.

Saying that the number of deaths in the battle for XYZ were higher because the egos of the brass were involved is the same as saying that the sun rose this morning…..it’s not hardly worth mentioning because it’s a known and universal truth.

Lots of truth in that. Hindsight is always better than foresight. There were a lot of Marines killed in the Pacific, capturing islands that could have been bypassed. Every war ever fought is thought for discussion.

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Originally Posted by StGeorger
Well, next time, the British can save their own arses.

Who might save ours? Look at the pull-out debacle in Afghanistan — the worst I’ve felt, and the most embarrassed I’ve been as an American. Vietnam fell to second place.

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Sounds like more lying to us as they have always done!

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Could have
Would have
Should have

All perspectives looking back at what went down afterwards.


And the Brits had their Dieppe Fiasco too....

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A Canadian buddy’s dad said the Canadians landed before the Americans. I have not looked into it much but it sure sounded like the Canadians faced a tough landing. Were the casualties different?
One of my great uncle survived Tarawa in the pacific, he threw his medals in the ocean in disgust, he did not have kind things to say about management.

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We could have bombed the beaches and inland better, combined arms….

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Monday morning quarterback, good example is if Patton followed Montgomery advise

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Originally Posted by viking
We could have bombed the beaches and inland better, combined arms….

Just a guess?

That might have had to do with getting the troops ashore at specific windows in time related to daylight and tides.

And before German arty, tanks, and troops had time to respond to the invasion. Much effort had gone toward convincing Germany that Normandy was NOT the site of the coming invasion.


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Originally Posted by StGeorger
Well, next time, the British can save their own arses.

The British already had, long before the US joined the war.

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Perfect example of Monday morning Quarterback!!

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I visited Omaha Beach in 1963. It was a grey, foggy day and the environment was little changed from D Day, if at all. I saw no easy path to anywhere and the whole assault scene looked pretty daunting to me.
Later that year I watched "The Longest Day." Omaha Beach and the movie were sobering experiences by themselves. Unforgettable in combination.

Brave men. God bless them.


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Originally Posted by Crockett305
Perfect example of Monday morning Quarterback!!

Absolutely!

Speaking of Monday morning quarterbacking…..I’m “watching” episode 3 of the PBS Holocaust documentary. I haven’t watched the series because after episode 1 I became annoyed enough. I’m not a denier and I’ve walked through the bleakness of Dachau but I get disgusted by anyone that puts ANY blame on us for not doing enough! Ungrateful sons of bitches….🤬🤬🤬


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Quote
And the Brits had their Dieppe Fiasco too....

Dieppe was a study in what NOT to do in an amphib landing. They lost their azz on that one but learned from it.

The Marines at Guadalcanal learned a lot, too.

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