Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors My JK Cloward Pre-War Model 70s

Just for fun. JK has passed...........but his art remains.

Gorgeous! What calibers?

Thanks for sharing.

Magnificent rifles.

Wow! They are nice! Wow, what a bunch of beauties!

WOOOOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!

Very nice rifles. Thanks for sharing. Anymore info you can share with us about each one??

Beautiful rifles!

And I am sad to hear that he passed.

Mine are also pre-war, but High Power XTC rifles.

Beautiful rifles. I knew Cloward quite well and I shot with him a lot. He was president (iirc) of the private range I belonged to as well. I’ve sold a countless number of rifles he built. He built nice stuff but he could be a crusty PIA know-it-all. I’m a bit rough around the edges too so his smart ass comment was met with my reply…. I got the impression that he was used to getting away with being a dick but he hit a wall with me. We butted heads but he eventually realized that he might get further with me if he wasn’t an ass. It took a year or two before we started to get along but we eventually did.

Cloward is no different than many gun guys from his generation…crusty, grumpy and their opinions are the only ones that mattered. If it wasn’t a pre64 model 70 then “it’s total crap and not worth my time” kind of attitude.

Cloward had a decent reputation (locally) for building decent stuff but the biggest problem most guys had wasn’t with his work but rather his attitude. I knew dozens and dozens of guys that felt exactly like I felt about him. 😬

That was cool to hear about him like that. He must've been a crusty fella.

Nice rifles though.

Sounds like the steel workers and ship builders I grew up with and worked with.. Those guys don't take schidt from anyone. Just how it is..

acesneights: "I" am NOT one of the ALLEGED "dozens and dozens" of people who thought Jim Cloward was an egotistical blow-hard like YOU allege!
I met Jim over 55 years ago and traded guns with him, bought guns from him and had him build and repair guns for me!
In fact during those 55 years of interactions with Jim I NEVER once saw him insult anyone!
I even did the preliminary investigation of a burglary at one of his gunshops that was in my patrol district.
I remember when Jim won the Wimbledon Cup with one of his own customized Rifles - YOU don't just do that with "decent" Rifles!
Sheesh!
I only have two of Jims wonderfully accurate Rifles left in my collection but I implore you to pay attention to this - THEY are both way more accurate than just "decent"!
Again, sheesh.
I know numerous shooters who own and shoot/shot his Rifles - NONE of them were just decent accuracy wise or in the looks/function department.
I again shake my head at your blather and must wonder if it is YOUR ego that has run amok?
Not only was Jim a fantastic Riflesmith and artisan he was an enthusiastic Hunter, a very decent human being and a devout Republican!
PERIOD.

Skywag: Those are all especially beautiful Rifles (WAY above just "decent" looking, obviously!) made by Jim Cloward - good for you!
If you don't mind my asking which calibers are they and how do they shoot?
My current Cloward Rifles are both heavy barrels and shoot extremely well.
Again, good for you.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Beautiful

+1 on calibers please

Beautiful rifles, very elegant and classy.
I believe he was instrumental in the Pacific Research synthetic stock design. I have one of those stocks and really wish I could find a couple more as they are great stocks IMHO.

Excellent collection. I would also like more details about each rifle.

I agree. I've seen some of his rifles that have had them. Someone here said Al Biesen actually designed that stock, but Cloward used them. If someone has the full story, I'd like to hear it. I just bought a rifle with a stock that has very similar lines and it is wood/walnut. That rifle is not a custom by any means, but very nice for what it is. I've been wringing it out over the last few days, since I got it..

I found a picture of my Cloward 1937 in 308 + later 1948 in new-fangled 6.5x308.

The post war 6.5 was later sold, but I have another 1941 in 308 somewhere...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...cloward-xtc-m70s#lg=18087272&slide=0

Jim built two of my rifles. They both shot very well.

He built this post-64 Palma/Match rifle for Gary Rasmussen, who sold it to me. I used it with sights, and time to time with a scope and achieved my High Master rating with it. Wonderful rifle! Eventually I sold it to another competitor who wanted his son to have a good rifle for competition:


That 308 Win was very accurate, if I missed the bull, it was very much my fault, not the fault of the rifle.

He also built my SWAT rifle, another 308 Win, but a Remington 700 action which saw a couple of different stocks, one lightweight HS Precision stock to which he added additional bedding, and the other an M40A1-3 which Kelly McMillan gave me for evaluating the design for tactical use.



I shot high master scores with in too, in prone competition and did well in various tactical/practical matches with it prior to the advent of the PRS series.

Regards, Guy

Beautiful Rifles Skywag. The wood is stunning! Always nice to see some real craftsmanship, art.

I never found JK to be anything other than a complete gentleman. Just like me.........except I can be an [bleep] too. I shot Hi-Power with him out at the Machias Range.

Most of these rifles are from his early Seattle/Aurora store. Calibers? Pretty boring.......All .270 Win. Accuracy.......also pretty boring......I never shot them.

I just liked his art and kept him busy. He and his wife Annette dined with us on Lake Washington................and he loved to tell of his Africa hunting adventures.

One reason I never shot them is that I had one that I did. It is 30.06 and was the first one he built for me. I have an interesting story about that rifle though. It killed my one and only deer.

My dad was the American Dream. He immigrated from Germany to the USA in 1921/ couldn't speak the language..........and died young at 62.....a millionaire. He became the largest employer in Oregon and COMPLETELY lost his accent. You'd have thought he was born/raised in Oregon. He loved airplanes and I became a Private Pilot in 1965. He was one of my first passengers. I had no idea he would be dead 3 weeks later. He died of formaldehyde poisoning.

Anyway, on his deathbed at the Mayo Clinic, he told my mother to buy me an airplane. She bought me a brand new Super Cub and flew it home from Lock Haven-Portland with a total time of about 50 hours.

I had hunter/pilot friends and we flew those Super Cubs into Hells Canyon (the deepest canyon in N America)the night before opening season. The deer were pressured by the boats 3000' below and by the trucks 3000 ft above. So where we landed our Cubs 1/2 up on the side of the canyon there were deer EVERWHERE. Hundreds!!

We had a bucket of white paint and went out in the field that night, and marked/painted the two largest bucks with a BIG white "X".

Then, the next morning, opening day, we just shot those two bucks.........loaded them in the Super Cubs, and flew home. Anyway.....this is the rifle........re-stocked/reworked by JK.

Most parts of the above story are actually true!

Cool story and beautiful rifle.

Holy smokes. Awesome history skywag! That 30-06 is beyond nice.


Guy, that’s great you’ve got a piece of his history as well! Great rifles and great thread.

stunning rifles and yes, thanks for sharing them with us.....I hope they all get hunted someday.

Same. And yes, I hate seeing rifles not get used.

I could sit and stare at those beauties on the table all day long.. I'd just imagine they shoot lights out. Honestly, I'd probably be afraid of scratching them in the brush where I hunt.

From what I heard, he also designed the composite stock for Pacific Research Co out of Vashon Island WA

Jkob, someone recently posted that PRC stocks were designed by Al Biesen and Cloward made the molds. I have no idea if that is true.

Absolutely drop-dead gorgeous rifles. Wow!

Jim was a top-notch marksman, hunter and rifle builder. He taught many of us a lot, and is missed.

Regards, Guy

Beautiful

Here is a 300 WinMag that Jim built for me.......with a Pacific Research stock. I should shoot it once!

Holy smokes is that an elk hunters dream rifle..

Hell yes!!

When did Mr Cloward pass away?

I think you should simply re-home it.
I have an excellent service I can recommend; I can send you their name via PM if you wish.

Get in line AK…..

😔

Don't feel bad AK. I have to slum a pushfeed that looks just like that one..

You’re already hard enough to stay in front of.

Bottom feeders all

I'll start the line for the walnut stocked beauties

OP, if you want to sell, I'm interested.

Sharks in the water…. Watch out for that NYR…. Heard he’s crafty.

I just don't know exactly. There is no obituary.

But a friend told me he passed and all his machines were sold off at an auction. All the old phone numbers are no longer in service.

Maybe Annette is still here.........I don't know.

Jim NEVER had ANY internet savvy......at all......completely old school.

Erik, his son, has a Facebook page that hasn't had an entry for a decade.

Skywag,

When you get a chance can we get more pics of the opposite side of the stocks and maybe a few from different angles?

Beretzs, if you buy one of these, you could always sell me Bob's old rifle...

The owners of Pacific Research got hold of a Cloward stock, put it on a pantomime, and built the molds off of it. Cloward had nothing to do with it, and I was told, wasn't asked for permission. Apparently he didn't care.

I had several PR stocks.

Beautiful rifles Skywag.

Don’t take offense, but that rifle will never leave my paws till I’m room temperature.

He also built built some of the best cross the course and Palma rifles I have ever handled.
I have a 338-06 rifle with a Mauser Rimrock/Borden stock FS on the classifieds. Best ergos of all my synthetics

That’s great intel Brad. Thanks for that.

He looked like a helluva smith.

This is where it came from - 2008 thread …

Thanks AK. That is right from the horses mouth. Borden later called that stock the Rimrock as well.. Great ergos on that one. If I find another one cheap, I'm going to snag it...

All of those things could still be true.

Yes - I do think they are, because Jim Borden told me about the Cloward stock being pantomimed. I bought two from Jim over twenty years ago when they were call Rimrock's. But I'm a bit hazy on the details, as this was around 2001.

I'm looking at a beautiful one right now. Scoped with an older gloss Leupold and $2,000.00. Doesn't seem like a bad deal.

If you decide not to buy it, please forward me the info on that rifle!

It's an oddball. Not too many here would want it. However, it is a beautiful rifle. Price is also a reflection of the oddball cartridge it houses. I contacted the seller and he has not responded yet. Probably a gunshop that is not open on Monday's, like so many of them out there. If I end up buying it, I'll start a thread on it.

Except they built M70's, Mausers, Rugers, and 700 stocks. I spoke with Jim several times. And he told me he built the patterns for the original Rimrock PR stocks. Doesn't make any difference. They are top shelf stocks.

I was just asking my buddy that dealt with Cloward a lot throughout the years beginning way back when he had his tiny shop just north of the Aurora bridge. When we were reminiscing my buddy said “you know the very first time I walked into his shop I almost walked out immediately. I have dealt with opinionated ass holes in the the gunsmithing industry mostly the old timers but I had never met anyone more opinionated and rude as I had the first time I met Cloward. I didn’t walk out and I’m glad because once I figured out how to deal with him he was a great resource for pre-64 Winchester model 70’s.”

Cloward is still alive but he’s dealing with “late stage dementia” and perhaps Parkinson’s. He was without a doubt a gifted gunsmith that was a great with pre-64 model 70’s.

VarmintFinger….I’m glad that you love your Cloward model 70’s I’m sure they’re very decent for the money.

PS….That’s a pretty amazing story.. what with you investigating a robbery at his shop and all you guys were probably as close as brothers. 😂

Did you actually CATCH the robbers (burglars)?….finish the story. Sheesh.

I like that story. He sure knew his way around a pre 64 model 70.

Without a doubt he knew the pre-64 model 70 as well as anyone. He was one of the “old school” gunsmiths that took pride in his craftsmanship and it showed.

It shows in every one of his rifles builds. They are beautiful.

What kind of wood is on those? English Walnut?

Great story and that is an exceptional rifle. Sorry to hear you lost your dad so early.

kwg

I visited with Jim Cloward at his shop when it was in North Seattle. He was helpful, chatty and his wife was in the shop with him. He had stock blanks and patterns up the walls, and we spoke about a prone rifle build and his recommendations. I remember there was a framed page out of a shooting magazine. It was an ad (Winchester IIRC) that highlighted his winning the Wimbledon Cup with a Winchester rifle. I enjoyed my time with him and he was nothing but nice.

I believe he moved his shop to Douglas Ridge eventually. I've got a pic of he and his wife in the shop somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it up and scan it.

I have a RimRock stock and knowing a little about composites and their production, I believe he produced the "plug" which is the basis for the mold. The checkering of the RimRock stock is fine and well done and wouldn't transfer with a pantomime. I'd like to know who ultimately ended up with those molds.

This thread about Jim Cloward has me thinking about how big shooting and hunting was in the Seattle area just a few decades ago. George "Dad" Farr was from Washington and became a legend at Camp Perry with a Long Range trophy named after him. Alice Bull starting shooting competitively at U Dub (Imagine that!) and went on to earn awards and accolades in NRA Service Rifle and also has a Highpower trophy named after her.

You could shoot a full distance highpower match every weekend at Douglas Ridge, Macchias, Fort Lewis etc. When I visited Seattle, I would make the rounds seeing folk with the good stuff. Rifle smiths Cloward, Dan Cowan. Russ Haydon in Gig Harbor, Wally Seibert for scope boosting and reticles, Nesika Bay Precision in Poulsbo... There was a sporting goods store in downtown Seattle that was great for hunting and shooting supplies.

Ahhh...the good old days.

Reviving an old thread to see if I can get some opinions- Looking at a Jim Cloward custom .505 Gibbs built on a CZ550 action. Stock looks very similar to the bottom rifle in the original post on this thread. Rifle appears to be in as new condition, and given the caliber, probably shot very little. Anyone that is familiar with his rifles have an estimate of what this gun would be worth in the current market?

I know thus is a very late addition to this thread but I'm responding to those who didn't get along with Jim. My exoerience was just the opposite. I used to go up to his shop and have lunch with him once a month or so and he also taught me how to shoot. As I recall, jim had cluster headaches which would make anyone grumpy. Two of the rifles he made for me were with wood he hid behind his refrigerator. These were blanks he had back for himself and they were extraordinary. I miss him

BChunter

Do you have any picture of those blanks/rifles.

Hal

Those are gorgeous rifles!!

I’ve owned several of Jim’s rifles, all pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters. One was a 338-06 of no great distinction apart from its remarkable accuracy. Another was a 35 Whelen in a Borden Rimrock stock. My favorite was a 308 Featherweight in a Pacific Research stock. A serious big-game hunter had upgraded it a few hundred dollars at a time over many years, then sold it when he quit hunting. I was looking for a 30-06 when I first saw it, so I put it back on the rack at Adventure Sports in Lynwood, WA. I quickly realized the magnitude of my error, went back, and bought it. I had to sell it a few years later during my divorce, but it remains one of two guns that I will buy it back instantly, no questions asked, if I ever see it again. It was in a Pacific Research stock and I shot it like it was growing out of my arms.

All of this happened in his shop near the Aurora Bridge in Seattle. I used to visit on lunch breaks when I worked a few miles away. He also worked on a couple of Palma rifles for my father; the two of them knew each other from the match circuit. I visited him a couple of times after he moved to Machias, where he worked on a couple of Mausers for me.

As I understand it, Pacific Research was the original name of the stock. Jim designed it, but as you can see from his walnut stocks, the Biesen influence is undeniable. These stocks were built on Vashon Island, WA, about 20 miles as the crow flies from his shop.

I can neither confirm nor deny the pantograph story but it wouldn’t surprise me. The checkering on both stocks was superb, so perhaps there was some other voodoo involved, but I doubt that a pantograph would have captured it in its full glory.

Jim Borden later bought the machinery and moulds from Pacific Research. He built the stock for a while; Jim seemed to like them and built rifles on them without complaint. I called Mr. Borden a few years back to inquire about the Cloward stock but he said that there wasn’t enough demand to keep them in production.

The only way to truly understand the Pacific Research/Borden Rimrock stock is to use one for fast offhand shots. Jim built accurate rifles, but he hunted the brush and tree farms like the rest of us in western Washington and he knew what it took to get good hits in a hurry. His hunting rifles come up like quail guns and everything about them is exactly right when you need to drop a blacktail NOW.

Jim also had a dry sense of humor. He was a fearsome competitor but he’d drop a point now and then like anyone else. On that rare occasion, a relative greenhorn might win the stage. If the new kid crowed about it, then Jim would hand him a business card that he’d had specially printed for the occasion. It read, “I beat Jim Cloward on Stage_________. Date ______.” Below that was a line that Jim would sign before handing it to the greenhorn.

He could be gruff if he thought you were wasting his time. If not, he’d help you but he made it clear that he was busy. I grew up around people like him and later became one myself. There are worse things to be.

I hope that the mention of dementia is wrong. I would hate to think of him that way.


Okie John

I'd check with https://www.hallowellco.com/magazine.htm and https://stevebarnettfineguns.com/


Okie John

Thank you for pointing me here. One of them was able to confirm this rifle recently sold for $6k, but that the exact same pictures I was given were the ones used for that sale and they are offering it for half the price. Clearly a scam so if anyone sees a Cloward .505 Gibbs listed, it's likely a scam- beware!

I put a Pacific Research stock on a P64 M70 7 mm Rem Mag, in a Douglas barrel in the 80s while I was in AK. The stock looks to be a Biesen style, based on many Biesen's for sale over the years. He always made the grips very trim (Jack O'Connor favored that shape) where your fingers wrapped. See pics on imgur: 'Pacific Research P64 M70 rifle I built in 80s while in AK'.

https://imgur.com/gallery/pacific-research-p64-m70-rifle-built-80s-while-ak-XDBVa3g

👍👍