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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
If everyone would quit buying cheap dots the whole failure thing wouldn't be an issue.

I think cheap dots are great. But I don't have one on a handgun yet. I now have 2 of the Sig Romeo 5s on rifles. Can't see it getting too much better.

I've only got one handgun that came ready to accept the RDS. I've only had it since august and am enjoying it the way it came. But I expect it'll eventually wear the dot. A knowledgeable friend tells me that I'm limited by footprint of the cut-out on the P365X as to what I can readily mount.

The Romeo Zero stands out as a likely candidate, in my mind, simply because of my experience with the Romeo5.

In a sort of backhanded rebuttal of TRH's complication vs simplicity remarks, I'd say that even if newer and advanced technology is used, there is no simpler sighting system than a dot sight. It puts the alignment of front and rear sights in the same light as the use of the bronze sword.


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I’ve seen a lot of people transition from irons to dots, (Edited To Add...at this point several hundred people), of varying age, vision, and shooting ability. I’ve also now seen many shooters start out directly with dots.

With proper instruction they have all, all, been as fast up close and more accurate at long distance (50 yards as an example).

The biggest improvement is in the 15-30 yard range. Hitting reasonable size targets at speed is hard and anybody who disagrees is welcome to post up targets with times. Those previously hard shots become very obtainable.

Dots have essentially doubled my pistol engagement distance with no downside up close.

The key is seeking out the proper presentation technique. But if you’re not willing to do that then you’re probably not willing to purchase a quality dot or keep up with battery life or maintain the skills you acquired.

And that’s fine, iron sights still work. But it’s undeniable that they work as well for someone willing to learn something new.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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wasn't so long ago a lot of proponents of concealed carry would always say you need smooth lines no sharp edges hammerless revolvers..
now we're sticking a big old awkward Red Dot up on it to snag on everything.
not saying necessarily they're bad I'm just saying it's kind of odd the same people preach that 10 years apart

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A lot of people have mentioned "keeping it simple".

Remember, the goal is not to just possess a simple pistol. The goal is to have a reliable, repeatable, simple shooting process and if you want to keep it simple, I can think of no greater benefit than eliminating sight alignment and sight picture during the shot process.

1-See target and present the pistol.
2-Subconsciously know what level of sight alignment is necessary for the shot difficulty presented.
3-Obtain that level of sight alignment.
4-Verify the proper sight alignment is at the correct place on the target.
5-Subconsciously know where your visual focus needs to be for the shot difficulty presented.
6-Shift visits focus as needed…..Sometimes this will require you to stop looking at the thing that wants to kill you.

Or….
1-See target and present pistol.
2-See red dot on target.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Originally Posted by ldholton
wasn't so long ago a lot of proponents of concealed carry would always say you need smooth lines no sharp edges hammerless revolvers..
now we're sticking a big old awkward Red Dot up on it to snag on everything.
not saying necessarily they're bad I'm just saying it's kind of odd the same people preach that 10 years apart

Have you ever had one snag on clothing during the draw?


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Blue.....do you have any recommendations for sights?....if I am going to try this out I want to start with a good platform......bob

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Originally Posted by Bob_mt
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
I shot my carry gun (M&P 2.0 Compact with a DPP) yesterday in a training class.

The front sight nearly slid out of the dovetail, again, and I had to beat it back in place with a flashlight so it wouldn't fall off and get lost. That happens every hundred rounds or so, even after I've tried staking it in place by peening the dovetail down around it. If you shoot enough you'll see plenty of iron sights fail, too.

If everyone would quit buying cheap dots the whole failure thing wouldn't be an issue.


what are some that you like that will hold up?....not looking for cheap willing to pay for quality......bob

The new Leupold DPPs seem to be good (but the illumination controls are awkward), the Trijicons are good (but make sure you can manually adjust the brightness), and the Aimpoint P2 is exceptiona (but prints more than any of the others).


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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thank you ....bob

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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by ldholton
wasn't so long ago a lot of proponents of concealed carry would always say you need smooth lines no sharp edges hammerless revolvers..
now we're sticking a big old awkward Red Dot up on it to snag on everything.
not saying necessarily they're bad I'm just saying it's kind of odd the same people preach that 10 years apart

Have you ever had one snag on clothing during the draw?
no, nor have I have i felt the the need to Bob hammers smooth and dehorn on any weapon I've carried..
reread how I worded that

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IMO reflex sights are great for range guns and distance shooting. In my experience they are more accurate than iron sights and I have them on several pistols, BUT my EDC pistols wear tritium night sights and by nightstand pistol has a streamlight TLR8 laser and flashlight on it.

In most cases having to use an EDC pistol is measured in feet not yards. I don't need or use a reflex sight for that distance.

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Curious as to how much the dot sight gets in the way when clearing malfunctions. Keep mind I've never shot with one, it seems like it would be awkward clearing stove pipes, working a tap/rack/bang, clearing jams etc. Much different than with iron sights alone, when that Oh Sheit! moment comes?

Last edited by SBTCO; 02/07/23.

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Just grab it and use it like a handle.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Not a good idea with a Holosun 407. You can easily turn the dot off by pressing the + and - button simultaneously with a finger.

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Originally Posted by tjm10025
Not a good idea with a Holosun 407. You can easily turn the dot off by pressing the + and - button simultaneously with a finger.

I used the lock mode feature to prevent that from happening.

Last edited by Cheyenne; 02/07/23. Reason: Change terminology

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That’s a feature that I would immediately disable if I could. If I couldn’t I wouldn’t buy something with a design face like that.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Originally Posted by tjm10025
Not a good idea with a Holosun 407. You can easily turn the dot off by pressing the + and - button simultaneously with a finger.

Not on a 507 K or C



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As Blue said…you end up giving up nothing up close, and most assuredly gain for farther away. Win-win. If you’re sound in the mechanics of draw and presentation, you will pick up the dot/circle as you would your sights, or technically as one with your sights if co-witnessed. As for draw snags, if you clear the clothing properly on the pre-draw motion, it should not be an issue. Put the work in first before trusting your life to it. As an added thought, and hopefully you’d never need to, but the RMR style sights give you a great area to use for slide racking if God forbid, you’re down to one usable hand in a situation. I see no drawback to weapon clearing/manipulation with an RMR sight, at least for the two I run anyway. (Shield RMSc and Holosun 507k x2) To each their own though.😎


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Plus it's not a part of the gun that prints in CC. I personally don't see a down side to it other than it adds another level of possible failure but that can be reduced by choice, practice and maintenance.



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Originally Posted by tjm10025
Not a good idea with a Holosun 407. You can easily turn the dot off by pressing the + and - button simultaneously with a finger.
Another example of a failure to KISS.

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For those that think holsters are hard to find for mounting these huge obtrusive red dots…
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
The 507C rides right on my belt.

That’s a G19 with a Langdon Tactical grip plug/mag well finisher/grip extension thingy.

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