Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Longstreet at Gettysburg

The South had no way to reinforce or support that center attack had it been successful and breached the Union line at the angle at the copse of trees.

The Union flanks would have swallowed up the whole army. It was doomed the minute it was ordered. It was Lee's dream which turned into a nightmare for the South.

I have myself stood at the angle in that stone wall on several occasions. It makes your hair stand up on your arms.

I've walked that charge. Classic 1800s tactics. Only the Union could afford that and recover. Happily Lee turned down Stanton.

Heth's Division was unable to dislodge Buford's cavalry. Buford was reinforced.

Ewell was unable to rout Howard on day 1 of the encounter battle. Once Federals took strong positions on Cemetery Hill it became a set piece battle.

Lee should have reconsidered.

Lotta pretty good post here, by quite a few people, Thankyou!
Couple of random thoughts. Take it as you may. Not try to criticize, or start a whizzing contest, but I have studied most everything about Gettysburg since I became fascinated with it since around 8 years old!
If you know the history of the battle, you need to go there. As Shelby Foote said, “The ground talks to you” and he’s absolutely correct! It’s always surreal to me.
Everyplace I go, I can hear the guns, smell the smoke, and see the carnage!
I e seen myself, half scared to death, kneeling behind some sort of cover, clutching my musket, or serving the guns
Both my spouses, when visiting with me, remarked they thought “ I died there”!
Every time I leave for home, I feel I’m leaving part of myself behind!
I kid you not! I visited Antietam, and Fredericksburg and knowing the history, the ground talks.
But Gettysburg? There’s something about that place! Surreal is the only word I can use.
It’s always both wonderful and a little scary for me.

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You sir are not alone I’ve been there many times.Several of my ancestors survived under Garnett 19th va infantry I find myself dreaming at night of marching under canister fire to the high water mark havnt made it to the wall yet

Two things here.............I've been to Gettysburg and toured the battlefield, and consider the trip a must for any buff of the War of Northern Aggression. It was well worth it, even if I did have to spend the night in Maryland. I also went to Harpers Ferry as well.

With hindsight always being better than foresight, the battle could just as easily gone to the South, and there is plenty to argue about that they perhaps should have won. There is also plenty of blame to go around among Confederate generals as to who should have done this or that. However, I believe the Lee must be held accountable for the lions share of losing the battle. I believe he made some blunders that turned out to be costly.

Now for the other post. Like I said, I ain’t criticizing, or trying for argument, just my own thoughts.
Jackson, had he been there, would likely have taken Cemetery Hill on The first. Maybe he’d have gotten some troops on Culp’s Hill as well.
But every time I hear someone say “if Stonewall had been there”
You can bet your sweet can, things would’ve been different!
Meade never planned a fight at Gettysburg. He had drawn up plans to gather his Army on Pikes Creek, about 12 miles southeast of Gettysburg.
He knew Lee’s Army was near Cashtown and Chambersburg, and he could easily shield Philly, Baltimore and Washington.
He sent Hancock to the fight on the afternoon of the first day. His assurance to Meade, said the union army could hold the ground.
The Confederate Army had no idea what or who was in front of them.
The Calvary Corps, under Stuart, was cut off. He finally rejoined Lee late evening on 2 July!
I can picture General Lee, asking his subordinate commanders “Have To heard from General Stuart?”!
Nobody in the Southern Army knew who or what they were facing!
A helluva way to enter a battle!
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For Jackson's independent command before his death see: Stonewall Jackson at CEDAR MOUNTAIN by Robert Krick. Double excellent!

For other interesting studies that requires many sources to master: Peloponnesian Wars
Napoleonic Wars

The resources for the campaign would have been better spent on Virginia soil

Faulkner’s words have power, even over a damn Yankee like myself!
In the context of the times, I might’ve been one of “The Pennsylvania Bucktails”.
But with 20/20 hindsight, I believe the Fedgov had no right coercing the states.
Not supporting slavery here, but a States People, I believe possessthe God Given Right to decide for themselves!
There were two Gettysburg men in the Army of Northern Virginia there, Wesley Culp, And IIRC, John Werts. His family had a farm near the Peach Orchard, where he served a Rebel Gun!
Anyway, I have stood at the VA Monument, looking across to Cemetery Ridge, and wondered myself. “Do I have the guts to do this”? It’s a bond you gotta have to learn to understand as civilians. But for me to show “the white feather” to the guys I loved? No thanks. If I got to, I’ll die here!
I can only tell you as a veteran, you don’t do this stuff for your country, you do it for your brothers in the unit!
There are other post I have thoughts on, so I need to reread the thread.
You’ll hear some more tomorrow. In the meanwhile. I love this stuff!
I can’t count how many times on the ‘Campfire that I started threads, and ended up learning things I hadn’t known
I guess we all oughta thank The Rickster for this home
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Since where on a Gettysburg thread how about the other John burns

John Burns, a Veteran of the War of 1812, was serving as constable of Gettysburg when the Rebels came to town on 29 or 30 June.
I guess he arrested 1 or 2, releasing them on 1 July, as Heths men got there.
Burns took up His 1812 musket, and tried to join, IIRC, the 6th Wisconsin.
They turned him down. So he went to the 24th Michigan, picking up a Springfield from a wounded Yankee on the way.
He fought on Willoughby Run with the 24th, wounded a couple times or more.
When the yanks were driven back to Seminary Ridge, he was left behind.
Captured by the Rebs, he had hidden his gun and ammunition, and claimed to be a civilian caught in the crossfire.
Knowing the consequences of resisting in civilian clothes, I think it’s a little lie we can relate to!
Burns was never where close to Oak Hill, as others have said. Oak Hill is a mile north of Rt 30. The Iron Brigade, containing the 24th Michigan, fought on Willoughby Run.
The only freakin reason I looked this stuff up, is a while back I was accused of being a “John Burns Sock Puppet”!
Christ Sakes, I didn’t know who the hell John Burns on the ‘Campfire was!!
I came in with the rest of the Shooters.com refugees in 2002.
Holy smokes, I’ve been here for 22 years and counting
I’ve read as much of Gettysburg as I could find.
Do you really wanna start a whizzing contest?
I’m pretty well armed!
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Lee and Jackson were masters at maneuvering their armies and baiting their enemies to attack them on their terms on favorable ground. When they did seize the initiative, it was because they had divided a large force into a smaller more vulnerable force.

Lee forgot what he was good at Gettysburg. He threw his army at well entrenched consolidated forces on high ground. A mistake Grant would repeat with equal disaster at Cold Harbor.

Lee didn't have to win that war, he only had to not lose it. He lost the war at Gettysburg. His ego got the best of him.

A great photo of John L Burns age 69 in 1863.



I’m often surprised by how active-looking aged War of Secession veterans looked in photos 40 years after that war, testimony to the effects of limited food intake accompanied by a high level of physical activity.

Burns was born in 1793, fought up by Niagara Falls in the 1812 war. Wiki says he volunteered for the Mexican War, no mention of service though. No mention of family but in Wiki you can see he lived in a sizable two-story house.

A pity his life story wasn’t written down, he must have seen some remarkable things (heck, passenger pigeons!).

Sadly, he loses his mind as he ages and wanders widely, found eight years later essentially homeless in NYC on a cold winter day, dies shortly thereafter. See….

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_L._Burns

It does speak well of the ANV in how well they treated him, even giving him medical attention at a time they must have been swamped with their own casualties.

A flaw in the South, a reluctance to remove from command those not up to the task. Famously Braxton Bragg, but on the scene at Gettysburg Lee’s Chief of Artillery William Penderson.

Pederson was a close friend of Jefferson Davis and Lee’s Christian Minister.

Confederate artillery poorly deployed on Day 1 such that most of its at idle close at hand. Later that day Lee actually assigns the critical task of reconnaissance to Pendleton who in turn passes it off to junior officers. The result was an abysmal result at the start of Day 2, the Confederates completely unaware of Sickles’ deployment and Longstreet’s column taking the wrong road and having to reverse and backtrack to stay hidden behind Seminary Ridge.

Time lost to that wrong turn may not have mattered anyhow as Longstreet is gonna insist on delaying the attack until his favorite Alabama Brigade could arrive coming all the way from Chambersburg.

Perhaps Lee really was suffering from an attack of dysentery as British observer Arthur Fremantle suggested, he retires to his tent that night while on the Union side Meade and his staff are up all night, traversing the field, deploying units as they arrive. One Union column, coming up from the south along Seminary Ridge, comes with 100 yards of the Confederate picket line, are warned by a tavern-keeper, and turn aside, crossing over to Cemetery Ridge.

Perhaps one should blame the fubar situation in the ANV on Stuart, trying to salvage his reputation after Brandy Station, but again it was Lee who gave him the permission to go over Longstreet’s misgivings.

Neither Lee nor Stuart could know that it would be a Meade and not a Hooker in command, and that the Army of the Potomac would move north with remarkable speed, cutting off Stuart’s return from the other side of that army and forcing him to ride north all the way to near Harrisburg before he could get around it and turn south to Gettysburg.

By far, the best book I’ve read about this subject is Glenn Tucker’s
Lee And Longstreet At Gettysburg .
Tucker shoots to hell the hell, the accusations against Pete from Early, Pendleton and others.
As I said, most of the people accusing Pete, were trying to cover themselves for their failures there. (I never heard of Stuart criticism, but I put a large part of the blame on him. He knew where Lee was headed, and his duty as cavalry commander would have been to shield Lee’s army and provide intel of Union movements.
As I said, he got stung at Brandy Station, and figured another ride around the Union army would buff back the shine on his reputation.
Instead, he got cut off, and Lee, embroiled in the second day of battle, was asking his subordinate commanders, “have you heard from General Stuart and where is my cavalry?)
I’ve read that Hood begged Pete for permission to go around round top and attack the Union rear. He would have captured the Union Artillery reserve, and cut Taneytown Road, one of Meade’s supply lines
But Pete, knowing not where the Yankees were, demurred.
“Lee has ordered the attack, and we must follow his orders”.
The dawn attack order to Pete on 2 July was Early’s invention.
And the poor recon by junior Confederate officers actually turned out to be a small blessing. Hunting an unseen route allowed the time fore Sickles to advance his Corp, creating a salient in the Union line.
Meade’s Artillery and Hancock’s quick thinking, supplying infantry, saved their butts!
But the transfer of troops from the center to the left, created a week point in the Union center.
Right now I can’t recall who led them, but 2 Confederate brigades advanced on Cemetery Ridge that evening.
A suicidal charge, by the 1fst Minnesota regiment, ordered by Hancock, turned them back.
“Do you see those colors?” He asked, they said yes. “Then take them!” He said.
Going from memory here, but I believe the 1rst Minnesota suffered 85% casualties!
But they held, turning the Rebels back!
Later, Hancock said the “He would’ve ordered that charge knowing every man would be lost”.
Is it any wonder to admire this man?
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Lanes Florida brigade and Wilcox

Another very good book about this is William G Pistons
Lee’s Tarnished Lieutenant

1st Minnesota charged Wilcoxs division stopped them cold a brave move but costly.Lang on Wilcox left flank took several batteries at the angle cops of trees sight of the next days fiasco with no support and had to retreat.
That moment with AP Hills corps in support would have cleared cemetery ridge if coordinated correctly

Walked it many times…….amazing men.

It gets you every time.