Winning in the Wind. Picking a node. Go to 6:30 to get to the meat. It seems to be the same concept just explained differently.
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
You probably get tired of me writing that, but it is true. Nationally-ranked shooter Konrad Powers does the math to explain why.
Except the fact that at 600 yards the 10 ring is .5 moa.... Everyone always forgets that...
I"d be ok with an MOA gun and have won stuff with it. But you need a good load for 300 rapid. A really good load for 600. Unless you never wobble and never miss the wind calls. And if that were the case 200/20x plus would be the norm. Since the x ring is MOA.
200 you don't need much. Ball ammo even.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Wars have been won with 2 MOA rifles so I’d think that there isn’t much that can’t be done with a consistent 1 MOA rifle….at least out to 500 or 600 yards.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
We can go back and forth on this one, but the more we talk about what is acceptable and what target is acceptable to shoot at, that may further the agenda of the left wing gun grabbing group. A lot of us aren't shooting steel silhouettes of deer and elk. There's always a lot of talk about "torso" sized targets. I get it, some of you train that way. But then you are basically giving them what they want. Even in the video I posted. That guy shoots well with the AR platform, but he's shooting at a man sized/shaped silhouette. I'll buy 1 moa for "practical" purposes and accuracy, but if you are competing, I agree with what rost said. Unless you shoot like a machine and make every wind call and you don't have nerves, a 1 moa rifle is only going to be so so. Lets call that 1 moa for 10 shots too, since most of the time that is what you are putting on the target downrange. Then I'd take every ounce of precision I can get. Hoping for far better than 1 moa. I will also agree with the guy that said there are damn few real 1/2 moa AR's out there. Maybe some of rost's competition guns, but none of mine are.. A rifle with a higher degree of precision will give you a very good edge. Anyone that says otherwise, may be sitting in their armchair with grand illusions. I also did not watch the video because it is a computer generated simulation. Those targets were not shot in real life and real world conditions, but showing you what a perfectly zeroed rifle may be able to do. Repeat perfectly zeroed rifle. Like someone here said one time, every time you hit the 10 ring, that is an error. the object is to hit the x-ring. Being off the X-ring shows you what you are doing wrong. It's a deviation of sorts. There is also a reason why guys prefer shooting steel. Steel is easy. Paper targets, on the other hand, never lie.. Paper targets show where you fu cked up.. Oh guys gonna hate that schidt, but it's the truth..
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Absolutely; way too many people get tied up with needing to see .50 or less groups with all their AR's.
Nothing wrong with 1 MOA at all for all reasonable, practical purposes.
MM
I am sure you remember the A2's that were so used and worn they wobbled a bit from the upper/lower receiver during boot camp and even in the fleet. But once you slung them up tight, for some reason, even with green tip, it wasn't any big thing to work over the 500 meter target. For combat, I don't how much more accuracy was actually needed. In 03 with the A4's came out a few buddies were issued those and thought they were sniper rifles, but I think that had more to do with the optics on top vs some incredible gain in accuracy.
We can go back and forth on this one, but the more we talk about what is acceptable and what target is acceptable to shoot at, that may further the agenda of the left wing gun grabbing group. A lot of us aren't shooting steel silhouettes of deer and elk. There's always a lot of talk about "torso" sized targets. I get it, some of you train that way. But then you are basically giving them what they want. Even in the video I posted. That guy shoots well with the AR platform, but he's shooting at a man sized/shaped silhouette. I'll buy 1 moa for "practical" purposes and accuracy, but if you are competing, I agree with what rost said. Unless you shoot like a machine and make every wind call and you don't have nerves, a 1 moa rifle is only going to be so so. Lets call that 1 moa for 10 shots too, since most of the time that is what you are putting on the target downrange. Then I'd take every ounce of precision I can get. Hoping for far better than 1 moa. I will also agree with the guy that said there are damn few real 1/2 moa AR's out there. Maybe some of rost's competition guns, but none of mine are.. A rifle with a higher degree of precision will give you a very good edge. Anyone that says otherwise, may be sitting in their armchair with grand illusions. I also did not watch the video because it is a computer generated simulation. Those targets were not shot in real life and real world conditions, but showing you what a perfectly zeroed rifle may be able to do. Repeat perfectly zeroed rifle. Like someone here said one time, every time you hit the 10 ring, that is an error. the object is to hit the x-ring. Being off the X-ring shows you what you are doing wrong. It's a deviation of sorts. There is also a reason why guys prefer shooting steel. Steel is easy. Paper targets, on the other hand, never lie.. Paper targets show where you fu cked up.. Oh guys gonna hate that schidt, but it's the truth..
The problem with this post is that the 2A was created for the purpose of shooting tyrants. We water down our rights when we all try to be good little sportsmen. We must never forget, or let anyone forget, that the reason we have guns is to shoot people, not deer or rabbits.
I'll buy 1 moa for "practical" purposes and accuracy, but if you are competing, I agree with what rost said. Unless you shoot like a machine and make every wind call and you don't have nerves, a 1 moa rifle is only going to be so so. Lets call that 1 moa for 10 shots too, since most of the time that is what you are putting on the target downrange. Then I'd take every ounce of precision I can get. Hoping for far better than 1 moa. I will also agree with the guy that said there are damn few real 1/2 moa AR's out there. Maybe some of rost's competition guns, but none of mine are.. A rifle with a higher degree of precision will give you a very good edge. Anyone that says otherwise, may be sitting in their armchair with grand illusions. I also did not watch the video because it is a computer generated simulation. Those targets were not shot in real life and real world conditions, but showing you what a perfectly zeroed rifle may be able to do. Repeat perfectly zeroed rifle.
The video shows what our expectations should be, like that the .75 MOA is unlikely to clean an 80 round course. And how a 1/4 MOA better yields improvements so marginal as to be noise.
Except the fact that at 600 yards the 10 ring is .5 moa.... Everyone always forgets that...
No, the X is 6" and the 10 is 12". CMP rule 4.6.2 C.
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I"d be ok with an MOA gun and have won stuff with it. But you need a good load for 300 rapid. A really good load for 600. Unless you never wobble and never miss the wind calls. And if that were the case 200/20x plus would be the norm. Since the x ring is MOA.
I agree. In competition, a 1 MOA gun drives me crazy. Part of why I posted this is to work on my own head instead of stressing out over what might be a 1 MOA gun.
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200 you don't need much. Ball ammo even.
For me, 200 is all about stacking up Xs (and 300 too, it's just harder). I notice my scores suffer even in standing with ball ammo. I don't think most of it shoots 3 MOA over the course of 10 or 20 shots, even if you get < 2 MOA for 5 shots.
Except the fact that at 600 yards the 10 ring is .5 moa.... Everyone always forgets that...
No, the X is 6" and the 10 is 12". CMP rule 4.6.2 C.
Quote
I"d be ok with an MOA gun and have won stuff with it. But you need a good load for 300 rapid. A really good load for 600. Unless you never wobble and never miss the wind calls. And if that were the case 200/20x plus would be the norm. Since the x ring is MOA.
I agree. In competition, a 1 MOA gun drives me crazy. Part of why I posted this is to work on my own head instead of stressing out over what might be a 1 MOA gun.
Quote
200 you don't need much. Ball ammo even.
For me, 200 is all about stacking up Xs (and 300 too, it's just harder). I notice my scores suffer even in standing with ball ammo. I don't think most of it shoots 3 MOA over the course of 10 or 20 shots, even if you get < 2 MOA for 5 shots.
Rules and such. BUT... all I ask is go measure the width of the 10 ring. One side or the other. Just measure it. Its tiny compared to the X. Half the width. When you realize how tiny the 10 ring really is, you realize you should be shooting Xs all the time or have a reason to be in the ten ring. It gives very little room for error.
The thing about the accuracy is we talk often only about how the gun will shoot. But what about wind and missing the call. What about mirage moving bullet impact? Lots dont know that mirage is a totally separate impact factor than what wind does. What about shooter wobble. Heck I've been in the pits enough to know that on windy days the targets even move around some.
Its not really so bad for a one of issue. But if you pile all the X/Y stuff up and it all hits the lotto at once... it can be a horrible shot. That is at least better with a super accurate gun vs a MOA/ish gun. I can work some to get better accuracy. Thats a given. I can't always control the others including my bodies natural wobble. Even prone slung up my wobble was between 1/8 and 1/4 moa on a trainer. To me it looked really still but irons give you that illusion of not moving...scopes drive me nuts but you simply accept it in the zone and keep pressing.
Get back to me once you measure the 10 ring from the edge of the 9 to the edge of the x.... The 7 ring is wide...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
My use of the AR is strictly and unapologetically martial.
To think the Left will leave you alone because the targets you shoot are circles is not only naive, it’s embarrassing.
If it was all about shooting torso sized silhouettes, I can get by with a fu cking SKS. You are not a precision shooter. You have proven that over and over, but you can carry on. I could care less. Maybe you can go and start another pistol thread? I'll be sure not to shoot on that one, because I hate to hear you cry...
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
My use of the AR is strictly and unapologetically martial.
To think the Left will leave you alone because the targets you shoot are circles is not only naive, it’s embarrassing.
If it was all about shooting torso sized silhouettes, I can get by with a fu cking SKS. You are not a precision shooter. You have proven that over and over, but you can carry on. I could care less. Maybe you can go and start another pistol thread? I'll be sure not to shoot on that one, because I hate to hear you cry...
The density shows strong here. To think you could even come close with an SKS. I"d delete a post like this to keep from embarrassing myself.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
My use of the AR is strictly and unapologetically martial.
To think the Left will leave you alone because the targets you shoot are circles is not only naive, it’s embarrassing.
Not sure anyone could be that stupid to assume that. The left is after them all. Anyone that thinks different won't like the outcome. Martin Neimoeller....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
