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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 360
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 360 |
An up coming estate auction has a W.W. Greener Martini in .219 Zipper listed. Are the Greener actions modern steel or pre 1894 lower pressure steel or both? What are safe pressure loads ? Are actions built to handle both long and short cases? Any info is welcome. My limited research has given me mixed thoughts. Thanks.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,758 Likes: 166
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,758 Likes: 166 |
None of the old Martini's are made of what you would call "modern steel", including Greeners.
Long and short actions? Yes, Greener made the small Martini Cadet (as did BSA and Francotte, basically all the same size and quality) as well as sporting rifles on that size receiver, and they made a "medium" sized action too used for mid-level rifle cartridges and some shotshell calibers.
Martini's are considered safe with pretty much anything you can fit into them, but I surely wouldn't dance around at super-high pressures like we (seemingly) enjoy today. The Martini is one of the strongest single shot actions made, having been chambered for a heckuva lot of cartridges that didn't even exist back when they were made, but there are limits. Personally I have made self-imposed limits of 45K psi, but may have been overly cautious - that's a decision you have to make when acquiring one.
There are caveats though. Even though the design is hell-for-stout it is severely limited in the physical size of cartridges that will work in it. First the cartridge has to be able to make the bend down and into the chamber - length and taper (or lack of it) will have its say. The barrel tenons of small (Cadet) size actions are fairly small in diameter thus limiting their hoop strength (resistance to bulging or shattering) when used with fat cartridges. (.44 Magnum is considered by most experts to be too fat for example, or at least maximum diameter, although the action itself is strong enough to take it.) The other caveat is the extractor - it's the Achilles Heel of the action. They are a weak design and will pose problems if a hot load causes a sticky case, better have a cleaning rod with you if you like to dance on the edge.
Those caveats are mitigated a lot by the medium sized Martini action because it's simply physically bigger, but they're rather uncommon compared to the small Martini actions. That's why I would want to know if it's a Cadet or medium action. The Zipper will fit and work in a Cadet action - it's about the longest/fattest shape of cartridge that is handy in it. Heck, they re-chambered a lot of .310 Cadets to .32 Winchester Special back in the day and they worked just fine (except recoil is downright murderously brutal in those little rifles so chambered, so there's that).
The small Martini is a delightful little rascal, as long as you recognize its limitations. They have very fast lock times, and their triggers are workable to a light crisp let-off, and tend to be pretty accurate. Can you tell I'm a Martini slut? Hah! I have a few at the moment.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,307 Likes: 26
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,307 Likes: 26 |
that's some graduate level information right there. Thank you gnoahhh.
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 10,588 Likes: 266
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 10,588 Likes: 266 |
I was removing a BSA Cadet barrel a few years ago, my blocks were not sized correctly, and I crushed the barrel about 1 inch ahead of the chamber, that steel was softer than anything I've ever seen. Still, all my fault, hurry, hurry. Gnoahh covered all the bases...note well the discussion of diameter and hoop strength, IMO the Zipper has no business in a Cadet .750 dia shank, plus you can't count the action thickness as adding strength...it doesn't. The .218 Bee? Hell yes, all day long.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 360
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 360 |
I sure appreciate all the info gnoahhh. My son has three zippers and this add really got him interested in another. He will also appreciate the information. Thanks, Ed
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,713 Likes: 18
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,713 Likes: 18 |
I used to see Cadet rifles rebarreled to 357 magnum every now and then, but not in a long time
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,758 Likes: 166
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,758 Likes: 166 |
The action is nigh ideal for .357 Magnum. I have one in .357 Maximum, but it's a tight squeeze getting it into the chamber.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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