Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Vari X II vs Burris

I know there is currently a vari X II vs Freedom thread currently going on. I purchased and older BRNO chambered in 338-06 that has a Vari X II currently sitting on top. The glass looks really clear to my eyes. The thing is, I got used to ballistic type reticles and like the Burris type. Would I be giving up quality of glass if I sell the Vari X II and replace it with a FF II ? My guess is with the newer coatings etc, the Burris won't be far behind the Leupold but I may be sadly mistaken. Along with that, what would you consider a fair price for the above mentioned scope? 3-9 power, gloss, very little ring marks, and a slight bit of wear/discoloration on the one side. 200? More? Less ? Thanks!

The FF-II has that dated Leupold beat in clarity and low light abilities. With that, the Leupold is still very serviceable and seem to bring close $250 depending on condition and buyer. Sometimes they bring $150 or so if they’ve turned purple, have ring marks, scratches etc.

Sorry, thought I put it in the optics section....disregard, moving there

I think a Burris FF II has better glass than the old Vari-x II's. I have Burris FF II's on several rifles and think the ballistic plex reticle is easy to use and nice to have when hunting in open country.

IMO, the Burris FFII w/BDC reticle is one of the best value hunting optics available.

The FFII BDC reticle is nice. The eye relief/eyebox is tolerable, but nowhere near a Vari-X II, or VXII, or VX2, especially with magnification turned up The Burris has more glare, and less contrast in low light or looking from bright light into a dark forest.

But it is a usable scope for hunting and a very good value for the price. A friend says his Droptine is a bit better glass than his FFII.

Are the FFII's even available anymore?

Neither are great but I'd take Burris FF II over a Vari-X II, VXII, VX2 or Freedom anytime.

Yep!

Yep +1+

Have also tested the optics of a LOT of scopes on a consistently-lit optical chart, while setting all the scopes on the same magnification, and FFIIs did VERY well. In fact they did as well as well-known European brand costing 3-4 times as much.

I also know that many hunters who supposedly "test" scope optics don't bother to set them all on the same magnification--which is essential for a meaningful test--or on a consistent target in consistent light.

There are many other factors involved--but the other thing I also know from long experience with 3-9x40 Fullfield IIs is they hold up better than most other scopes in the same weight-class--including some far more expensive models.

Having had a FFII, VXII and VX3i, the Burris lasted me 10+ years on top of a 7mm Rem Mag. It broke (moisture comprised but still held zero) when I fell down a mountain Elk hunting.

Burris glass was just as good as the VXII. The VX3I came later so haven’t seen them side by side.

Given those two options, FFII every time for me. I would agree it is one of the best values out there for $200 and change.

I have a FFII 2-7 with the NP #4 reticle. Bright, clear, and easy to use, whether from the bench or on running game. Clarity seems equal, and maybe better, than my M8 Leupolds and my VariX III 2-8. And the price is definitely right.

I am a major fan or was of the Vari X llc love them but IMHO you would be a fool to pay more than $100 for a used one that is in good mechanical condition. Simply because Leupold no longer fixes them or do they?? Read a post in the Optics forum where one poster said he sent in 3 Vari X llc scopes and they told him they were out of parts to repair them and weren't getting a parts resupply but would replace with a Freedom model.The Burris has as good or better quality with repair ability or replacement. Just something to think about in the past Leupolds warranty stood for alot, now what does that mean? Burris and Vortex stand behind there stuff. Like the Fullfield ll and recently bought a Droptine model to try..mb

I have a couple of the Vari X IIc 3-9x40 scopes in gloss finish as well as more modern scopes, including the Burris FFII. For the money, the Burris can't be beat, period. Why do I have the older Leupolds? Because I have never, ever had one lose zero and the two I have are mounted on beautiful rifles from the 1970s with deep bluing and beautiful walnut full monte carlo stocks. The aesthetics of the Leupold beat the Burris FFII hands down. If aesthetics aren't an issue, get the Burris. If you're scoping your dad's rifle and want to keep it looking classy, get the Leupold.

That's kinda the way I go too! But also admit to having too many rifles--the oldest a "first year production" Springfield .50-70 "trapdoor", the Allin conversion done in 1866. Of course, it doesn't have a scope--but have plenty of other rifles of various ages I try to scope with "period correct scopes." Bought a pre-'64 Model 70 Featherweight .270 a few months ago that, thought obviously hunted some, was in good and "all original condition, including the front sight hood.

But many of my (and Eileen's) more modern rifles have FFIIs on top....

Well said selmer.

I am fortunate that my lasix surgery allowed me to use iron sights.

I sold the leupolds……..

Keepin the Burris

POW

I’ve had one Leupold VX-II chit the bed but never had a problem with Burris FF-II’s or USA made Signature Selects. Anything can break, some more often than others (Blinding glimpse of the obvious).

I’ve had a Burris “predator quest” ff2 that I’ve sent back 3 times for repair. Yes it was free of charge each time and they were prompt with the repairs and return. I have several Leupold vx2’s dating from the 70’s,80’s,90’s to now. All still working fine. This is my experience.

Leupolds started having some problems around 2010, and did so for several years. It was bad enough for a while that I kept several copies of the repair-order sheet on hand, because so many needed to head to Oregon. It appears that's over now, but it happened.... But rarely ever had any problem with the older ones, which is partly why I still have several.

Have been using Fullfield IIs since shortly after 2000, including the Pentax scopes that were made by Burris in the USA back then, which were identical except for the name on the outside and slight changes in the exterior curves. They even had the Ballistic Plex reticle, but probably called it something else.

Have killed dozens of head of big game with 'em, and far more varmints. The only one I had to send back for repair was the LAST of the USA-made scopes I still owned, made around 2007--a standard 3-9x40. This happened a couple years ago, and they had it back to me within two weeks. But it had been on a lot of rifles, including some hard-kickers, including a .300 Weatherby.

All the rest have been the Philippine-made scopes, which some people thought would be lower quality--and a few still apparently think so today. This has not been my experience, and the reason is that Burris didn't just tell the Philippine factory make something like the FFII. Instead they shipped identical tooling to them, and then taught them how to use it.

I requested a 3-9x40 for a review as soon as possible, and it was just as good as the American-made model in every measurable way--except some of the machining was smoother in the "foreign" scope, perhaps because of the new equipment. Right now have nine of them on various rifles from a .17 HMR rimfire to a NULA .257 Weatherby Magnum, and have never had trouble with any.

Thanks guys. I will be selling the Leupold and keeping the Burris. Just for giggles I took the 2 scopes in question out one eve at dusk. Spent probably 20-30 minutes comparing brightness, clarity etc. I made sure both were always on the same power level. Honestly I went with an expectation that the Leupold would do better, it is a Leupold after all. Well I had to admit that the Burris was clearer and brighter, especially when picking apart thick brushy areas. I asked myself, which scope would make it easier to spot a deer in that brush pile, and then looked through both scopes side by side. Like I said, the Burris was clearly better. In more fields/open areas, I didn't think of the difference quite as much.

I have switched a majority of my hunting rifles over to FF2’s in the last year or two and picked up 9 of them at good prices the last few months since they discontinued them.

Most of my hunting rifles are set and forget and don’t get dialed since I never really shoot over 300 yards here in PA.

Perhaps Leupold has a better weight, and longer eye relief.

But I ain’t sure.

Angus,

The difference in eye relief is measurable, and Leupold "wins" there. But whether that matters enough for specific uses (including most) is another question.

Great post selmer. I think a lot of us feel the same way. However, I have an appreciation for the gloss Burris FFII 3-9x40 with ballistic plex. They look at home on older rifles like pre 64 model 70's or my old sporter m1917's. I don't think a lot of guys here have the gloss version of the FFII with ballistic plex. They did not make many of them. Here's a rifle I bought last year that had to have a gloss Burris after the Leupold that was on it did not pass the test:


Then one I bought right at the beginning of last year, also got a gloss Burris FFII with ballistic plex:


The aesthetics of those scopes are just as good as the older Vari-x IIc Leupolds. The old Vari-x IIc is a good scope that really holds it's value though. When I run across them at a good deal, I snag them:


I actually paid $150 for this one less than a month ago. I can turn around and sell it for $300+ on ebay. You'd be surprised what they are going for over there. The silver Leupolds are going for over $400!!


Guys buy these older Leupolds for a few different reasons. 1. Nostalgia 2. They don't make them anymore 3. Aesthetics and they look great on old rifles.

However, the Burris just plain works. I got my first FFII 3-9x40 with ballistic plex in 1998. Somewhere around the time they came out. I still have that American made FFII. It's been on more than 10 different rifles now and has really proven itself. It resides on my 1956 model 70 30-06 fwt.

In a recent test, where I had a "new to me" (bought it less than a month ago) rifle set up with a FFII 3-9x40


and a rifle set up with a brand spanking new Zeiss V4 4-16x44:


I could actually see the 1/4" black diamond inside the 1" orange dot I aim at, better with the Burris FFII 3-9x40 with ballistic plex reticle. Even when the Zeiss was cranked up to 16x. To me, that is unacceptable. But that was real world testing. You will often see differences like that when comparing 2 different scopes. I kept saying my Nightforce scopes focused much better than the Zeiss, and that may actually be a better comparison because the retail pricing of the V4 is closer to the SHV 5-20x56 I was comparing it to. But it seemed really unfair. Then when I compared the much more expensive Zeiss to the cheap Burris and the Burris blew it out of the water, I was very disappointed. I actually had to wait 6 months for that Zeiss scope to arrive, so there's that as well. I've only had to send 2 Burris rifle scopes in for warranty repair. One of my older American made scopes and a recent purchase that I made on Ebay for a $100 on an older American made Burris FFII. I sent it in to Burris and had the same scope back in 2 weeks time. I told them I wanted that scope back, if at all possible because it is an American made FFII and it was worth more than the phillipine made FFII's. They were cool and sent my American made one back with a note of what they fixed. I tested it and it worked fine after I got it back. I threw it on a rifle my buddy wanted for yote hunting and sold him the package at a very good deal. So, in my experience both companies treat you very well. But having to wait 6 months to get a scope from Zeiss was an eye opener!!!! This thread really needed some pics... Just sayin.

the 4.5-14 Burris FF2 is tough to beat

Weird deal on my Burris fullfield 2-7:

Scouting for winter caribou, my dog sled must've been too close to the dog food cooker.

Snow around the scabbard, froze my power-ring solid. Mustve happened when winds changed and steam off the dog food cooker went near the dog sled.

A 338 rcm brass is also seized solid against the scope.

Guess it's time for a thaw near the woodstove.

^^^^This^^^^

It's a lot of scope for the money.

For new it'll be E1 or Droptines now unless you can find FF2's NOS. Still Phillipines instead of China built like the FFIV.

The E1s are very good scopes as well. Have used several. (No experience with Droptines.)

Just seeing Burris E1 for sale, does it have all the goodness of the FF2 ?

Thanks

Drifless,
I used the E1 for two seasons and two bull moose. A very tough scope but a coupla issues:

The reticle was very "busy" and not as bold and legible as the ballistic plex.

The excessively large tactical turret caps bit into my wrist when I carried at the balance point.

Still a great scope.

But for these reasons, I prefer the fullfield 2.

2-7 E1:

Yep bsa, that's the one. Its the kinda sht that literally disappears in an early morning moose.

I can't even make out a moose 20 yds in front of my car at night as I swerve and almost have a heart attack.

Folks complain that they can't shoot Itty bitty groups due to the thicker crosshairs, but I like them. Had one bull show up so early, an $8000 camera could barely pick him up. Let alone my cheapy $200 Burris scope. This was a Burris scout, which is basically a fixed fullfield 2, far as I can tell.

Aimng at that brute was a challenge. I followed the light color antlers in the scope, and "guessed" where I settled the crosshairs. That shot rang true. Would've been impossible with the E1 reticle.

Amazon - Fullfield ll @ $130 with free shipping

https://www.amazon.com/Burris-Fullfield-Ballistic-Rifle-Scope/dp/B000MM2QSK/ref=sr_1_7?crid=1651B3NPGJ6X2&keywords=burris%2Be1%2B3x9x40&qid=1677453299&sprefix=burris%2Be1%2Caps%2C1221&sr=8-7&th=1

drover

Honest to goodness, the optics world is out of touch. Apparently manufacturers assume anyone using a riflescope is either a thousand yard sniper or seriously believes they’re one. That E1 reticle is an abomination. I have an E1 3-9x40 with standard duplex. I bought it several years ago ON CLOSEOUT when Burris discontinued them. That is the most useful reticle man ever invented for a scoped game rifle so Burris stopped putting them in the E1. And now it appears the crystal ball marketing geniuses even prefer the BS Extreme reticle over the Ballistic Plex. Clown World gets more real every day.

Yeah, I can't stand the E1 reticle. It is a pizz poor excuse for a reticle. I don't know what Burris was thinking. The good ol Ballistic plex reticle is by far my favorite. Cool pictures on your moose. Thanks for sharing.

For those who are apparently unaware of the reason Burris created the E1, it was designed as a version of the FFII that could be dialed up and down more easily, and with a reticle more suitable for longer-range shooting of smaller game, especially varmints.

Which is what some hunters wanted. And it works very well for that purpose--which I know due to having been using E1s for those purposes (mostly varmints) since they were introduced.

For general big game use, yes, the Ballistic Plex is a great reticle, the reason around 85% of my Burris scopes have BP reticles.

But always good to know how many Campfire members know more than optics companies about what will sell--and E1s have apparently been selling well enough for around 15 years to keep them in the line-up.

And case anybody really misses the point, the E1 was NOT designed as the perfect moose scope....

I sure like the paralax and the magnification adjustment. Much improved.



Anyway.....just thought I would add that. Continue with your scolding.

I sure like the way the VX2 dials accurately even though it has coin slots from the factory. Adding an aftermarket turret wrings out what it can do






Anyway, I just thought I’d add that.

😁

This thread got me thinking about another 4.5-14 for a Browning 7mm RM that I have laying around. Walmart of all places, $130 with free shipping for a 4.5-14. Can't beat that

Burris hand down. I've had 2 Leupolds; neither was worth a hoot in hell: would not adjust accurately or hold adjustment. I know- pure heresy.

I been snapping those up.The AO is great for long range shooting with Rimfire cartridges.

How are the FF IV compared to the FFII and E1 with respect to holding zero and any other desirable characteristics?

I have owned a few of the Burris FF ll and quite a few Leupold VX 11, VX-2, Vx-3 and if there is any difference in dialing properly between the two brands I have not seen it. I currently have two VX-2 3-9 CDS and they are the truest dialing scopes I have owned, which has included some high-dollar scopes, but those two are the exceptions. As always there is likely more difference between individual scopes than there are among brands.

As far as holding zero I will don't ever recall having a scope of any brand that would not hold zero. (I am not speaking of the bubble wrapped $29 Bubba specials since I do not own any of those)

drover