Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Combination Guns and Drillings Myth of The Guild Gun Drillings

There is no such thing. "Guild Gun" is a myth. Here is what the authority on combination guns has to say.

By Dietrich Apel
German Guild Guns – What are they?
There is no such thing as a German Guild Gun!
When those who claim to know a lot about German guns encounter a gun that does not
have a maker’s name on it, they often call it a Guild Gun. This sounds a whole lot better
than admitting that they don’t know who made it.
German craftsmen belong to Guilds even today and have for hundreds of years. Guilds
were initially sponsored by the reigning potentate in a certain region for the promotion
of good craftsmanship that gave buyers a certain guarantee that they were dealing with
knowledgeable professionals that were well trained. The Guilds established
apprenticeships that had to be served under a master for a certain number of years.
The Lehrling (apprentice) had to present a sample of his work to a group of Meister
(masters) who would also question him. If they approved of what they saw and heard,
the apprentice became a Geselle(journeyman). After working for five years and
successfully completing part-time courses in a technical school, he could present his
Meisterstück (masterpiece) to another group of masters who could then bestow on him
the title Meister. Within the Guilds were groups of the different gun making
occupations, likeActioners, Stock Makers, Lock Makers, Engravers, etc.
Most of the bigger gun factories had special departments for training the apprentices,
but it was still up to the Guild Masters to do the final testing and giving the final
approval. These Guild titles and positions do not tell us anything about the business
they worked in. They could work on their own in a one man shop or in a factory with
hundreds of craftsmen. Even today every gun shop or gun store must be owned by a
master gunsmith or a master gunsmith must be employed. And there are no exceptions
to these rules!
So, there is no such thing as a “Guild Gun” and there was formerly no law that required
that every gun had to have the name of the maker on it. As a matter of fact, many guns
were ordered by dealers in big cities or smaller towns from a gun maker in a gun making
center like Suhl, with the specific request to engrave the name of the retail dealer on
the gun. Engravers were formerly not allowed to sign their work. Fortunately, this is
now changing in Germany also.
You may now better understand that even those who know a lot about German or
Austrian guns often can’t identify the maker. Some just try to make you happy and call
it a “Guild Gun”. A better name for all these unmarked guns, if needed, might be “Trade
Gun”. Most German guns are of very good quality, but there are always exceptions to
the rule and the proof marks might tell us that a gun was sold in Germany but made in
Belgium. Let the buyer beware and get advice from those who really know! But they are
hard to find and they will readily admit that they know very little.

Thank you for that. I have refered to a no name drilling in the past knowing the info you just gave us because it is a a description that is commonly used to describe a drilling that doesn't have a makers mark on them. I have two, one with the retailers name and the other with nothing other than the proof marks and am looking at a third right now.

Thanks for the info on that drilling the other day, I'm still up in the air deciding if I want to deal with another obsolete cartridge.

Bruce,

Which is why I generally refer to them in my writing as "what many people call guild guns"--or occasionally just put "guild gun" in quotes.

Wow what great information, thanks!
The first time I ran into the term "Guild gun" was with a 20 gauge sxs that I got from a friend .
It canme with a bunch of providance , the stock maker, the barrel maker and the gunsmith who put it together .
It was explained to me that these people were part of a guild or cottage industry. I guess "Combined production " might better describe these guns .
My 16x16/9.3x72R drilling only has proof marks, no makers name , although it is pretty well made - far better than any production rifles for sure .
Cat

I seem to remember an article saying the same thing in the Waidmannsheil quite a few years ago. Dietrich Apel may even have been the one that wrote it.
I've had a number of O/U and cape guns that were referred to as Guild Guns. If one looked at them carefully, on occasion i could find a little innocuous circle M somewhere. I knew that M did not mean Guild Meister, but most likely the Gerbuders Merkel. My old 8x57/16 Leopard gun is a great example.
Some of the early guns can be tracked to at least the area that they were proofed. Unless somebody kept scrupulous records, or the original owner was famous, we will probably never know the maker. So, like a well made unmarked pocket watch, you just need to love them for what they are.
Bfly

Thank you for the terrific information!
Rick

Interesting topic. I have a Mauser action .375 H&H, with double set triggers. The seller thought it was an FN, but there are no markings on the action, other than proof marks.

Excellent info thanks.

Good info