Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors "Collector's Guide" revision

I got the go ahead from the publisher to do a revision of "A Collector's Guide to the Savage 99 Rifle...". They have about 700 copies of the second printing left.
I have until June to get the info to them although they said the revision won't be published until late 2024.
Any input from you guys that is not in the first or second printing of the book will be credited to you in the text and in the acknowledgements.
The 1960 99E will be covered. I know there were some variations such as a filled hole in the pistol grip or the absence of the hole. Some had steel buttplates and others had plastic. I need info and photos on these. As far as I know these rifles were only chambered in 250-3000 and 300. If any were produced in the Winchester calibers I would like to include that info.
I will not be traveling to get photos and info for this revision.
I didn't put the 99A with the medium weight barrel in the book. That will be covered in the revision. I took photos of the one I had before I sold it.
I will cover the 99B in 22 Hi-Power. We only know of two of these rifles. I would like to add any other oddities.
Thanks in advance for any help. David

I'll round up pics and info for that Ruger Savage Auto we talked about.

That would be a great addition to the book.

I remember seeing pictures of that rifle in one of the gun magazines that ran an article about Bill Ruger a number of years ago. It’s about as non looking of a 99 that you could make out of a 99! Yet interesting from the perspective of what Ruger did.

Oh, I dunno.
At a glance it looks Savage. Clearly a modification because he started with a full rifle. Ingenious conversion.
Imagine if he would have started from scratch. ?? Or if it were adopted. ??
I'd like to see it in action!

Interesting read in RL Wilsons book on Bill Ruger and his Rugers ref the semi-auto 99.

99 T-Rex?

Thanks for the pictures and I think calling it a 99T-Rex is something that should go into the books on the 99! I wish I'd thought of that one.

The 99TR-ex. Some will say the R was for Ruger but the rest of us will know it actually was coined for the Cretaceous Period raptor.

Resembles a 99 T or R, and "ex" for experimental.

I'll buy that!

I've decided to do an additional appendix in the revision. I am going to do it on scope mounts that don't require D&T'ing, in other words Lightfoot and Stith mounts. I have quite a few variations of the Stith but can use input from you guys also. I'll post what I've got and let you guys fill in the rest. I'll probably need some input on the Lightfoots on the early rifles that had varying distances for the location of the rear barrel sight. I have one on a saddle ring carbine so that's covered. Any other non D&T mounts you guys know about will be covered also.

Here's one that wasn't very popular and one that isn't seen often. I have 2 of them. Both are mounted sporting the Lyman Alaskan scope.. It is the Miller Kodiak Dream Mount.



These particular images are for illustration purposes only and can be found publicly on the net, These are not pictures of my personal Millers. They illustrate the probable reasons for lack of popularity.

The above picture is not mine. I got it from a web search. I went back another time and found reference to the 24hrcf. They are from a thread started by GeneB. I just wanted to clarify this

I haven't seen one before.
It appears the front of the mount utilizes the rear dovetail.
Can you tell us about the rear mount?

The rear mount is a split ring held together by the 2 screws. Attached to the ring dovetails are the two "Z" parts. Attached to the "Z"s is the rear base. All held together by the force of the rings when they are tightened. That long flat piece is nothing more than a leaf spring that forces the whole thing down onto the rear receiver. It is pretty intensive to get the whole thing down onto the rifle. Lightfoot would most likely do a way better job explaining it. I have one on my 99E 22 HP and one assembled on my other Lyman Alaskan sitting in a save just so I don't lose any parts.

So the rear isn't fastened to the rifle. Like you say, "leaf spring" pressure due to front dovetail and positive force down. ??

I have one, photographed and played with it yesterday for the revision. I don't see how it could be very sturdy and therefore not accurate. One interesting thing is that it will work on almost anything with the rear barrel sight dovetail. In it's favor it is quickly removable.

The rear is not "fastened" to the rifle. Downward force generated by the flat leaf spring is all. There are 2 ball nosed set screws at 90* to one another that contact the receiver and are used for contact.

Looked over my scope stuff yesterday. I need pics of a 3/4 inch Stith setup preferably with a Weaver 29S or 330. Also an early K2.5 with the small front bell and a Stith that fits it.

David, Are you going to do anything about the model 21 "CLYMAN LYMAN" for the savage rifle? I'm pretty sure i have the 3/4" stith with a 330 on a early 250-3000. Don

I have an early pre do-it-yourself 3/4" Stith (screws to barrel and left side) with a Zeiss scope if you want.

Something like this? Not a straight on view of the Stith tho. That Stith is gone, I know I have a couple Weaver 29S scopes and I'm sure I have a Stith 3/4" mount somewhere...

I was staying away from anything that required drilling holes in the rifle but send me pics anyway. Pics of the 3/4 Stith would be great. Thanks, David

David, I just went and checked,i have 2 early 250-3000 with stith mounts .One is 3/4" with the weaver 330, the other is 1" with the weaver K 2.5,i also have a new in the box stith mount for the weaver K 2.5. Don

I certainly wouldn't trust one in say .300 Sav. I have zero problems with the Miller on my 22 HP. If fact, I was amazed at the accuracy. When I get home tonight, I'll snap a couple of the mounts on my rifle.

Don, I have the K2.5 covered but need the 330 and 3/4" Stith. Don't get in a hurry to send the pics I may need more of the things you have. I hope to have the revision done in about a month. I can add the pics quickly after I receive them.

David, Cheryl has the pictures all done and is sending them,along with the lightweight 1895 stuff. Don

This is a no drill Malcolm mount.

On the miller-Kodiak the rear is fully adjustable so it can be used with fixed scopes, the fixed Lyman Alaskan in the box that is pictured above shows it in a Miller-Kodiak mount on the box. You do have to use special spacers on a 99 to get it level due to the rear of the receiver being lower than the front, there also were spacers made for the front so the scope could be mounted higher using both - that will not work on a 99.

The Miller-Kodiak mounts could even be put on guns with a barrel dovetail or with one not placed to be usable - they sold slip on sleeves with a dovetail for those applications that are held on with two setscrews at the bottom. These are marked with application codes and many were listed for military rifles and required the stock to be relieved for them.



The bottom set-up uses a sleeve -




These are from the 1953 & 1954 Stoeger Shooters Bible -


These have a lot of downward force on the rear mount, as shown in the pictures LBK posted there is about 10 lb.'s, I had the front ring at the front of the scope to begin with and and thought there was too much force on it, so I moved it to the rear of the front spring mount which lightened it some. These are self centering so I do not think they will get out of place from any amount of recoil. There is mention somewhere in those pages above about being able to carry the rifle by the scope with this mount (evidently as long as it's under 10 lb.'s).

More information and pictures in this old post - miller-kodiak-mount
A little bit of history - the rather rough rifle pictured was John Wright's first savage 1899 (CMHJohn) and started him collecting them.


With the sleeves there are a lot of possible uses, like a long eye releif scope on a 1920/26.

Rick, I'd like some detailed pics of the Stith you are talking about. I haven't heard of that one before.
triple deuce, I would like pics of both sides and the top of the Malcomb.
Gene, I've been on the lap top too long today and my neck is killing me. I'll read the literature on the Miller Kodiak tomorrow. Mine has the shims. I was wondering what they are for. The MK is mounted on my 99T 300. I'll have to take it out and shoot it.

That Miller/Kodiak mount is interesting, but just looking at it as far as any ability to keep the scope's zero and/or be able to not have "Murphy's Law" happen with it out hunting even in if the going is easy happen. IMO the Stith and especially the Lightfoot mount are light years ahead of it. Just my observation of it, I could be wrong, but just looks like a sunny day shooter mount to me. The post with information by GeneB on the Miller is a good read, I'd encourage anyone wondering about more info to click on the link GeneB inserted in his post and read. Thanks Gene.

I emailed you some pictures David.

Joe

got them and put them on the thumb drive. I'm getting a lot of interesting pics of no drill scope mounts from the members. It will get one credited in the book and a free copy of the revision.
Gene, LBK sent some pics of a Lyman Alaskan no drill scope mount. Are they yours? I would like permission to use them if they are yours. The mount looks just like the Miller Kodiak.

David, only the pictures posted here are mine, those with a beat-up Norman Ford 7/8" scope on a beat-up 1899 and a new in the box fixed Lyman Alaskan.....waiting for a better looking gun to be put on....

David, the LBK pics are a Miller Kodiak mount with Lyman scope.

I don't have any problem using the pics with the beat up scope and rifle.

Be sure to indicate that the Stith split ring rear mount does not work with the front tube mount. There is an illustration of this mount in its correct form in "Rifles: A Modern Enclyclopedia" by Henry M. Stebbins - a book that everyone should have. Also, be sure to indicate that the front tube for the K4/KVI mount involves two set screws that, if screwed in too far, will dimple the scope tube because, to lock everything in place, they use the tapered aluminum reducer rings to put pressure against the tube that fits around the objective. I have both types of mounts and have experienced these issues during the learning phase of my Savage 99 "journey."

David, I've got an even more beat up rifle I could put the Miller-Kodiak on............ You can use any of my pictures you find here, if they're good enough. Unlike Stith's, the Miller-Kodiak's have long enough mounts to work with almost any dovetail location.

This is from this thread - sidle-scope-mount

The other gun has a post WWI ¾" Malcolm no-drill. Some more Malcolm information - malcolm-scoped-1899s The 32-40 pictured in that thread was John Wrights and lettered as shipping to Malcolm, it is now owned by another member here.

Here's another from this thread - 1899-saddle-gun For proper eye relief of a full length scope on an 1899 you need it 8" longer than the barrel.


I put my pre-WWI 5/8" Malcolm no-drill on a different gun. It is too short for use with a rear sight dovetail in the location on most rifles of the correct vintage, Triple-Deuce's is much longer. In the pictures linked to above it has an adapter made from and old sight with another dovetail farther back, that raised the scope higher, without the adapter it sits much lower. Picture from this post - - Post17449012

I don't think the front mount is a Malcolm, it is not like anything in the catalogs and looks more like the ones used on Cataract Scopes (bought out by Stevens).

I originally tried a 28" Stevens scope on it, 20" barrel + 8", the Malcolm looks much sturdier and more fitting for use on a carbine -


Here's one I experimented with - it's a modern replca brass scope sold as Tasco or Navy Arms. It's 32½" long and has enough more eye relief than an old Stevens that it looks like it would work on a 26" barrel. They came with cheap brass dovetail mounts, this one is in original Stevens mounts and the paper wrap was to keep from scratching the scope when it was slid on.

thanks S99VG and Gene, that's good info. I've had some interesting experiences with Stiths. I sure glad Mike invented the Lightfoot mount. It really simplifies things.