Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Pre-64 308 Win

This just an observation I have noticed and curious if anyone might have an answer for me. I like collecting the pre-64 Model 70's, and one of the configurations I've been looking for is a 308 Win. They manufactured 41,190 Model 70's over the years in 308, which represents 7% of the total production. Over half of the total Model 70 production was 30-06 and 270 WCF, and you obviously see a lot of those listed. But it seems odd to me how few 308s I see listed for sale relative to the amount that were manufactured. I see way more 220 Swifts, 22 Hornets, and 375 H&H available for sale than I do the 308's--all of which were manufactured in lesser quantity than the 308 by at least half. Anyone got a rhyme or reason for that they can think of?

Most of them were Featherweights or all, not sure totally on that I think. So while maybe they made the numbers the Featherweights always seem more popular.

One of the smarter 70 guys will be along with better facts but finding a good 308 P64 is a challenge. I know I’ve looked for a long time myself.

The only pre 64 Model 70s I have owned were both 308 Featherweights. One 1954 model, was in 98% condition, never even had a scope mounted on it and too good to shoot so I sold it. The other of 1953 manufacture, is one of the most accurate out of the box rifles I own:



Coincidentally, the '54 is up for sale on a Canadian gun site by the new owner for good money.

Why so few on the market? People keep them and hunt the rifles I suspect.

That was the reason I kind of thought possibly too. Why sell something that shoots great and you love? It still seems like given the sheer number that were produced, more would come up. The ones I have seen come up for sale have been beat to hell or they're asking an arm and a leg relative to other calibers.

I totally agree with the above statement about accuracy of the featherweight. I have several standard grades and a few super grades however, none of them are as accurate as my 308 featherweight. For information only, my load is 165 gr Speer HotCor over 45.1 gr Accurate 4064. Old glass and old eyes shoot cloverleafs and holes inside of holes

It's easy. Guys hang on to them, so they don't come up for sale often. The 270 fwt is another one that guys keep, so they are harder to find.

"2Bs or not 2Bs', responding as below "the qustions"!

Over decades, I've not perceived a shortage in 70 pre 64 fwt 308 Win rifles as proposed here. That said, I've never perceived much of the wild, sky high prices seen nowadays. Frankly I wonder of a big shift from 'footing it' through gun shows/shops; doesn't account for greater anomalies than 'other than above'!

If talking about a legit Standard Weight pre '64 in .308, they were made but collector-unusual and pricey! I have such config in .243 Win but not so uncommon or pricey!

...and may all your Winchesters come true!

Best!
John

Hell yeah they do. For darned good reason.

Bobdahunter: I have three collector quality pre-64 Winchester Model 70's in caliber 308 Winchester - all are Featherweight Models.
Just returned from a 3 day gunshow in an adjacent state and indeed there were NO pre-64 Winchester Model 70's in caliber 308 Winchester there for sale!
I do know this - most all 308's got put to use by Hunters and shooters and collector quality 308's (in any configuration) are rare to find nowadays and for some time now.
Indeed the same holds true for Rifles in 270 Winchester caliber - they got USED - it was VERY difficult for me to find/settle on a mint condition 270 Winchester Featherweight for my collection.
Long live the Riflemans Rifle.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Yes, they sure do. My buddy bought one a while back and I restocked it for him. He paid something like $250 for the rifle from a friend of his, back in 2009:

That stock is absolutely worthless when trying to use a scope. Way too much drop at the comb, as you can see on the stock template designed by Utah708. The new stock (Mcmillan hunters compact swirly), made a huge difference and it was much easier to get behind when using a scope:


I also re-blued the barrel, as someone had sweated the front sight off anyway. The collector value was pretty much gone at that point. Then about 3 years after he bought his, I found a prime condition one made in '53 and it had a montecarlo stock on it. I paid $800 for that rifle and pulled the Leupold scope off of it and sold that on ebay. That rifle had minimal use on it and it shot well. My buddies rifle in the pics above shoots clover leafs in the new Mcmillan and he used it on his successful elk hunt a couple months ago, even though he has much newer nicer rifles in his collection. The 308w I put in the Mcmillan is his favorite. I can't say I blame him. He will never sell that rifle, at any price.

It could be that the 270's, 308's and 243's are simply more useful than the other calibers. I have a 375 and a 300, not that many uses for them around these parts. Even less call for them in other parts. I agree with the overall premise tho.

...I sold a 99+% O/A condition .308 FWT at the Tulsa Gun Show for $2450. Straight comb, aluminum butt, solid bolt, 22G rear sight. The rifle was virtually new. Sold that one, and walked four rows away and bought another .308 FWT Monte Carlo Aluminum butt, (Tired) for $1200. One is a collector, and the other is a shooter.

Sounds like you came out way ahead in that deal.

They are out there but you don't see them everyday. This is a 53 that has never had glass on it.

That’s a nice one 160!

I’ll be the odd man out and say that I don’t think they are that uncommon; I see them quite frequently in my searches. What I will say is it’s difficult to find a pristine example - and when such an example does show up - they definitely commend a premium.

This one was listed in the last couple of days, and it is one of the nicer examples I have seen recently.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...near-mint-condition.cfm?gun_id=102244152

Thank you! It is one of my favorites and far nicer to shoot off the bench than my pre-war 300 H&H rigged up the same way.

Looks just like the one I sold a while back. Honest rifle there, but the bottom metal has been redone. Mine was 100% original. I didn't even glass bed it, so it was pretty prime. I'd be a little leery of the seller myself, as his description is a little off the wall. That rifle shows all kinds of use.. It is also not "99%" condition. Nice try though. . It's pretty obvious that it's had a scope mounted on it and has been used.

It was a nice rifle. I’m not sure about the bottom metal; I think it may have actually been a healthy dose of Rigg and the lighting, but who knows.

Here are featherweight production numbers from Rule, since it seems to be germane to this discussion:

Good info. So I guess that means you bought the soft cover book that was in the classifieds here? I figured you would have already owned one of those. Excellent source of info. My soft cover is fallen apart and I never touch my hard cover first edition. I saw one of those on ebay last week for $200.00!!

Very nice right there^^^

Like you bsa, I never open my hard cover. My working copy grew legs, but all is well again.

Very good. Too bad about your other one growing legs. Eventually I'll need to replace my soft cover with another one. Although, I have highlighted a lot of stuff in my current one. The binding is not great and some pages are loose!!!

Heck, someone here may want to buy this one:

Roger Rule's The Rifleman's Rifle hard cover 1982 first edition

I'd buy it, but I already have one. This one has very slight damage on one of the corners and it did not sell last time it was listed, so I can see it selling for the starting price or a hair over. Well worth the $200 price tag. Just throwing it out there.. I like the hard cover version more than the soft cover book because the pictures are much better. A good addition to any Winchester model 70 collection IMHO..

Glad I have one already. Didn’t pay that, but the market has changed.

Great book.

DF

A lot of us here probably paid more for their first edition hard cover. Just sayin. I thought about buying that one because the soft cover books are $100.00. It did not get any bids again. Come on guys. I just sent the seller a message, telling him I'd buy it for $200. That is chump change for what that book is worth. I don't really care about the damage on the corner. I'm going to highlight the fugg out of it if he accepts my offer. Just sayin..

Mine is a 1982 Hard Cover in mint condition. I assume 1st ed. as "edition" isn't mentioned.

I see on line, some very expensive ones have a golden rifle across the top of the page over the title. Those go for over a grand.

Mine doesn't have the golden rifle, priced at around $500 or so.

What's the story on the golden rifle edition?

DF

I didn't see your post until just now. The book you are speaking of is the very first limited "Deluxe" edition. They only made 500 of those and they are numbered and signed and also came with a nice sleeve that the book slides into. Probably the ultimate Winchester collectors edition, but sells for over $1,000.00. Hard to find too, I'd imagine. Great question though DF.. The one listed on ebay is a first edition, 1982 copyright. They also had a second edition that was slightly revised, I believe, that came out in 1996. Those second edition books usually sell for around $275, while the first edition demands $450-$500.00...of course with that being said, it all depends on condition. Just like the good ol model 70's. Price is a reflection of condition and originality.

Thanks, bsa.

It’s pretty amazing what those 1st ed books are worth.

I’m glad I have mine. It’s a keeper.

DF

Man….

Speaking of Roger's books I too keep a softcover within easy access, but I do have 3 hardcovers that I sent off to Roger and had him sign, a real gentlemen .

That 308 was stolen.

Agreed. It was a shameless purchase.. Hopefully the buyer repents for that dirty deed.

Wow no kidding.

Sign of the times.

Not sure what it is, but I’d buy every one that I could at that price/condition!

Yeah, getting a 30-06 in that condition for 1200 is a score. A 308, well a horseshoe landed right...

Just caught up here re "Rifleman's Rifle" dimension of this Thread. For me generally, books are vehicles of entertainment/information and especially as repetitive reference. Digitalized versions as available, ever so much handier. Content in arms length reach everywhere my laptop goes! The fact of my fairly competent hard copy as compelling compromise as pre-digital. Even then, as every dollar for a publication, one less for the guns which were the whole purpose of the books!

Not to 'Dis' books including the "collecting of". But I'll continue the "vehicle" approach as conjuring the "collector editions" as maybe cumulatively accounting for one or two rifles. Ones you can read about as ones I own!

Different strokes for different folks... Respectfully!
Best!
John

My most accurate Model 70 is a 308 using A4064 with 165gr pills. Always cutting holes

Is there a digital version of the rule book??

No.

iskra: Maybe this will sway your opinion of "book collecting"?
Some decades ago I was minding my own business walking my wife down the street of Seattles Chinatown one early evening - but what do I spy in a book store window but an ultra-rare and ultra-beautiful "Jack O'Connor" book - it was the Derrydale Press's limited edition (#238 of 950 original copies) 1939 printing of "Game In The Desert"!
This book is beautifully bound in simulated green snake skin and is signed with a dedication BY Jack O'Connor to his friend "Olive". And it is also signed by the illustrator T.J. Harter.
The asking price was $75.00 and I paid $60.00 cash for it and then put off our Chinese dinner to get that treasure home safely!
Some years later I turned down a $750.00 cash offer for that book!
Over the decades I have bought and sold MANY outdoor related books - and ALL of them, I sold for a profit!
A quick word of advice - DO NOT sell book collecting short. "Profit" is free money, but still valuable money, in my experiences.
When Roger Rules wonderful book, The Riflemans Rifle" came out I had to order 10 copies of it from the distributor to get my dealer discount and that 10 volume order qualified me to be able to buy ONE of the "Limited Edition" (#118 of 500) Deluxe leather bound and slip cased copies of the Riflemans Rifle.
The "profit" I eventually made on the selling of 8 of the 11 books I originally bought MORE than paid for my complete initial investment!
I still have the Deluxe Limited Edition (valued now well in excess of $500.00) and two of the first edition Rifleman's Rifle copies (now valued at $300.00 apiece) - one I use and one that is just gaining in value.
DO NOT, dismiss, the money to be made in "book collecting"!
Long live "The Rifleman's Rifle".
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/101415323

This is the 4th 308 fw in reasonable condition that I have seen online in the last month for under $1300.

When it rains …

That's a very late one. One of the last pre 64's made. Pretty clean too. A good buy for someone looking for a fwt 308w.

Called bass pro right when they opened. Sat on hold for 20 minutes with operator coming on every 5 minutes and re-transfering to firearms. For someone to finally answer and tell me someone else was on the phone buying it. Super bummed/pissed. Guessing someone else on the forum saw the post and beat me to it.

My lucky day. The guy on the phone backed out and they called me back.

That’s great! Congrats - glad you got it.

Right on, that is excellent news!!! Congrats. When you get it, let us know what you think of it. Looks like it needs a front sight hood. Those from ebay and other places from Ocala Armory are very good, top quality hoods. And priced right at $25!!

You must have read my mind. I bought a hood on ebay 5 minutes after I got off the phone!

You'll like that hood. They fit exceptionally well and look great as well:


Hopefully you bought one from Ocala Armory. Keep us posted on your rifle. Thanks!!

Congrats on the snag there!

If anyone is in the market, this looks like a pretty good deal too. Earlier model. I'd have been all over it a week ago...

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...8-consignment-quot-.cfm?gun_id=102342693

Not a screaming deal but not horrible. About where the market seems to be.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...0-featherweight-308.cfm?gun_id=102537864