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Is True Blue position sensitive? How about Power Pistol?

this is what tightgroup was formulated for small charges and large cases. like Colt 45... don't know about the others don't know which ones are more of a potential problem either I just remember learning this.

Curious here, but since when has powder position been an issue in relatively small pistol cases? Granted, .45 Colt is voluminous compared to, say, .38 Spl or .45 ACP, but even as such it's not particularly cavernous in volume. Not being facetious, I just never considered such a thing as a "thing".

Ask a bullseye sport shooter.

Just pick up some 'Titegroup'

Designed for large cases & small charges

Not position sensitive

Give me Sport pistol over tightgroup all day everyday……

Why is that?

Tightgroup burns way hotter than SP and I prefer the case fill I get with Sp and I load on a XL650 and its easier for me to watch my powder level as Im loading,

Sp was also designed for coated bullets as it’s a cooler burning propellant!
And Blue bullets is 90% of what i shoot!

Accuracy is about the same for the most part!

The 327 Federal is definitely a case that gets help with position insensitive powders and case filling powders.

Brian Pearce did an article on this very real condition with certain cases and powders.

CFE Pistol is another developed with position insensitivity.

I love me some CFE Pistol. That stuff has shot great in everything I've tried it in. It's also the best thing I've found for squeezing velocity out of standard pressure 45 Colt, too.

BE86 has also worked very well for me in a few cartridges. Kind of surprising, given the burn rate, but it has actually given me better velocites in my 327 Fed than some slower powders like 2400. Haven't really wrapped my head around that one, but I'll take it. 🤷‍♂️

Thanks. I have about four pounds of CFE, but have not got into it yet. I loooove me some Titegroup for my many reduced
power loads in magnum cases.

True Blue does not seem to be position sensitive. I've used it in the .38 Spl, .357, .44 Spl and .45 Colt where it really shines for mid-level loads in the 950 - 1050 fps area. It can leave some unburned powder at lower charge levels and doesn't do its best there, but bump it up just a little bit and it will shine.


Haven't seen it mentioned yet but Winchester 231 has shown sensitivity to position in a few different cases.

I did some experiments on this back in the 90's with the .357 and .44 Magnums, trying to find reduced loads using the original magnum cases. .231 always showed good accuracy but I had to raise the barrel before each shot - move the powder to the back of the case - to get the most accuracy and lowest extreme spreads in velocity.

You'd think that as long as the starting position of the powder was consistent from shot to shot - i.e. if you always pointed the barrel down to get it all at the front - that you'd still get consistent results but that wasn't really the case (no pun intended). The differences in accuracy and velocity weren't huge and given that those were lighter target loads meant to be used at appropriately shorter ranges not enough to worry about, but the differences were there.

Still use 231 a lot in the .38 Special since it still gives some of the best accuracy for me across multiple revolvers - and mostly because I still have a bit over 4 pounds of it which will last well over 7,000 loads...

Thanks, Jim. I'm going to do some experimenting with TB in .38 spl with position and the chrono this summer. I believe you helped me when I first started using True Blue, and your advice was spot on regarding good loads.

The BE 86 Seems to be a rather *Unique* powder. I bought some for some 10mm loads, and it did quite well, but not as consistent as Longshot. I do believe that I have read that BE 86 is possibly a newer version of the UNIQUE powder, being less sensitive to position as Unique. I do know that the burn rate is different though, so not a swap grain for grain by any means. I do plan to try it in .45 Colt, and your post reminds me of that.

Chris

Be86 seems like a flash suppressed power pistol to me. I used to use a lot of power pistol but the downside was always flash.

I wonder if win 244 is position sensitive. I was working up some loads last fall and tried some win 244. It seemed pretty close in performance to titegroup. Similar speed with the same charge weights and similar max charges. I ended up going with titegroup but the load I went with is a little too hot pressure wise. I'm going to have to try a bit slower powder to get that speed with less pressure.

Bb

FWIW BE86 stands for BullsEye 1986, designed around the 9mm. It was a non-canister grade powder like so many canister powders that became a canister version.

As good as Unique is in handguns, it is/was still a flake shotshell powder.

Agree on that... BE looks a lot like PP. Seems to be just a touch slower burning, when comparing charge wt and velocites in the same cartridges.

I've messed with 244 Win in 45 Colt a bit. Those have a lot of dead air in the cases and they stayed pretty consistent. CFE was just a bit more accurate with a bit better velocity through the gun. 244W is definitely a viable backup for me in the unlikely event that I ever run out of CFEP, though.

Actually have quite a bit of 244 I should find some use for one of these days 🤔 Maybe 38SPL if CFE doesn't work out. It's just one of those powders where it has shot pretty well for me, but something else always shot a bit better in everything I tried it in, so I've just ended up sitting on it.

Might look up Ken Oehler's story of amusing himself with a load that was supersonic with powder back and subsonic with powder forward - such things as saying a student had cold hands that hurt performance. Bottom line is the SAAMI twist helps even in handguns.