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jwp475 Offline OP
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In my opinion and experience the +P 124 grains Bonded Golden Sabre is the best 9mm JHP on the market.

In 29% Ballistic gel the Golden Sabre Bonded penetrated 141/2" which will be about 24.216" in 10
% ballistic gel. Also expanded and penetrated better than this XPB +P 185 grain Barnes.

The Barnes penetrated 3/4" less and expanded less


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I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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I used to carry them in .45/185 (Glock 21).

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Golden Sabre's are good; Fed HST's & Gold Dots are too...............not a lot of real difference.

I've carried HST's since they replaced the schitty Fed HydraShok's.

Same/same in 45 as well.

MM

Bullet Testing

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jwp475 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MontanaMan
Golden Sabre's are good; Fed HST's & Gold Dots are too...............not a lot of real difference.

I've carried HST's since they replaced the schitty Fed HydraShok's.

Same/same in 45 as well.

MM

Bullet Testing

I can tell you for a fact that the Golden Sabre penetrates much deeper than the Gold Dot


Haven't tested the others that you mentioned



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Been carrying them for a while in a few different calibers now. I got a really good buy on a case of them in 38sp “new old stock” Shop was remodeling and found that there was a void between the cabinets and the wall where stuff could fall and they couldn’t see. Lucky for me I was there with cash and got them for the at least 5 years old price he had stickered to the box.
Has anyone else handled recovered gold sabers from ballistic gel and noticed the mushroomed petals of the brass jacket have sharper edges than copper jacketed hollow points? I might be overthinking it, but I think that they would slice soft tissue better rather than pushing it aside as they penetrated causing more bleeding.

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Shot several whitetails with my 1911 45 ACP. Very very good results. I never saw the need to shop around for ACP ammo after I saw what it did.

Last edited by Godogs57; 03/20/23.

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I tote the sig vcrown 124 and ft.scott tui's Golden Sabres are almost unfindable around here.


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I know a guy that was shot with a 40 cal Golden Sabre, it bounced around in his upper body but he survived. I was told the sheriff wouldn't let his deputies carry them after seeing the damage and the recovered bullet. You just never know but I quit carrying them.

I carry the HST's and Gold Dots now.
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Both of these were recovered in the third water jug, not ballistic gel but they work.

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Originally Posted by TWR
I know a guy that was shot with a 40 cal Golden Sabre, it bounced around in his upper body but he survived. I was told the sheriff wouldn't let his deputies carry them after seeing the damage and the recovered bullet. You just never know but I quit carrying them.

I carry the HST's and Gold Dots now.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Both of these were recovered in the third water jug, not ballistic gel but they work.


Bullets do not "bounce around inside"

Bullets do not always act the same in different calibers. Case in point. In 2008 I tested the 230 Gold Dot in 45 ACP +P shooting through 4 layers of denim and into wet pack. The bullet expanded to .870" diameter

I next shot a 158 grain Gold Dot 357 mag at a chronographed 1399 FPS and the bullet exited the media and 3" into the ground. The recovered bullet did nor expand at all. Infact the only way to tell it had been fired was from the rifling marks

Last edited by jwp475; 03/20/23.


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They all work, I don't sweat such details anymore. Back in the day when I did test each load, Golden Sabre's were very good performers, but so were several others. Coincidentally, my home defense handgun is currently loaded with Golden Sabre.

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Originally Posted by jwp475
In my opinion and experience the +P 124 grains Bonded Golden Sabre is the best 9mm JHP on the market.

In 29% Ballistic gel the Golden Sabre Bonded penetrated 141/2" which will be about 24.216" in 10
% ballistic gel. Also expanded and penetrated better than this XPB +P 185 grain Barnes.

The Barnes penetrated 3/4" less and expanded less


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]



[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
I’ve shot deer with xtp, gold dot, and HST in 124 9mm not a golden saber.

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Bullets do not "bounce around inside"

This instance, this bullet did. I saw the scars and got the details firsthand.

I believe it was Clint Smith that said “if there was a magical bullet that performed perfectly in every situation, everyone would be using it.”

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Originally Posted by TWR
Bullets do not "bounce around inside"

This instance, this bullet did. I saw the scars and got the details firsthand.

I believe it was Clint Smith that said “if there was a magical bullet that performed perfectly in every situation, everyone would be using it.”

If Clint did say that, he would be wrong. Reading posts and personal accounts, just on this forum, significantly prove otherwise...


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Can a bullet bounce...yes. Is it likely, no...especially something like a 9mm. But anything is possible.

I have actually treated a patient who was shot at contact range in the head with a .32 ACP, and the bullet went in and out the the same hole; that's a bounce. Bullets can clearly be deflected by a bone. As for "bounce", well I'd have to see what someone is calling a "bounce". I think its likely what Clint meant was deflect, and “bounce” is just a poor choice of words. Something you’d say in a very non-technical, anecdotal conversation while holding a beer.

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Bounce was the word I used when deflected would've been the proper term I guess but every bone it hit, it changed direction and made the rounds around his chest and stomach.

Point is, your favorite bullet sucks, don't get too hung up on water jugs or ballistic gel testing. Hit em where they need hit as many times as you can and hope they don't deflect, bounce, ricochet or whatever you want to call it.

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Years ago when one shot stop percentages were still being used, 45ACP hydra shok 230gr was running 96%. Golden saber matched its street results. Likely a big reason for its success was the FBI HRT adopting the golden saber load. I never see it on dealer shelves, gold dot and hydra shok are usually what I find and carry.

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Originally Posted by TWR
Point is, your favorite bullet sucks, don't get too hung up on water jugs or ballistic gel testing. Hit em where they need hit as many times as you can and hope they don't deflect, bounce, ricochet or whatever you want to call it.
I disagree...

The bullet doesn't suck that's for sure. It has always been a very solid performer in scientific tests. I'll take ballistic gel tests over someone's anecdotal story every day of the week; I don't care who's telling the story. Anecdotal data is worthless.

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Originally Posted by Firecontrolman
Years ago when one shot stop percentages were still being used, 45ACP hydra shok 230gr was running 96%. Golden saber matched its street results. Likely a big reason for its success was the FBI HRT adopting the golden saber load. I never see it on dealer shelves, gold dot and hydra shok are usually what I find and carry.
That "one shot stop" stuff was a complete fantasy using a VERY flawed criteria...there's a reason it went away and the FBI's testing protocol remained.

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Originally Posted by GunGeek
Originally Posted by TWR
Point is, your favorite bullet sucks, don't get too hung up on water jugs or ballistic gel testing. Hit em where they need hit as many times as you can and hope they don't deflect, bounce, ricochet or whatever you want to call it.
I disagree...

The bullet doesn't suck that's for sure. It has always been a very solid performer in scientific tests. I'll take ballistic gel tests over someone's anecdotal story every day of the week; I don't care who's telling the story. Anecdotal data is worthless.
So you put more faith in gel tests than someone that was actually shot by one. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

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Strasberg goats tests? Probably why they use gel these days.

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