Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Receiver sight for pre-64 70

Hi everyone. I have a pre-64 Md. 70 featherweight in 308 that I plan on having rebored by JES to 358 Win. I thought it would be nice to have a peep sight installed and keep it iron sighted for my intended purpose. I want to keep the action original and I don’t want to drill holes in the receiver. Does anyone make a quality peep sight that would mount to the existing receiver holes?

What's the deal with these? Anyone try one?

I have them on Marlins and 7600’s. If I wanted a receiver sight on my 70 that was functional and rugged, that’d be the one I’d pick.

Got it, I plan on putting one on a rifle. Might have to give it a try.

Why not just use a 48WJS?

I think it really depends on how seriously you plan to employ the sight. The simplest ones are rather of the notion reflected above. If you're good with that, go for it! A more seriously dedicated sight will probably be of the "L" shaped type with good sized aperture, vertical and horizontal range slide-scale components. The Lyman Model 48WJS, remains to my mind, the Cadillac of the "serious breed". breed. Moving down the scale of sophisticated dedication dedication there are a variety of units. The "Williams" units reflected decent econo units of alloy.

The nineteen twenties through sixties were the "era of the aperture sights and some precision, quite beautiful models produced. The good news, all pre '64 Model 70 rifles were drilled and tapped on left aft receiver area for mounting such sights. Two holes. The bad news only in the fact that most of thse truly great sights are long discontinued. Available, but pricey.
A caveat is that although as noted, mounting them according to factory provisions should be a snap, MOST required receiver wood inletting. That last "Third Model" of the Lyman 48, a so-called "sweet spot" "typically didn't require any factory wood alterations either. Below a pix of one such Lyman 48 on a Model 70 of 1960 vintage in .338 Win Mag.

I'd suggest avoiding altering any factory original pre '64 genre! Winchester offered Lyman and Redfield aperture sights factory fitted. You should be able to fit an aperture sight to meet your demands without difficulty. But for inletting hazard, a screwdriver endeavor!

Good Luck!
John

Lyman does. 57wjs.

I checked into these a few years ago. I expect you may also need a higher front sight which I did not want to use. I measured the rear aperture height with my Redfield 75 sighted in and discussed the required height with Andy @ Skinner. He was willing to custom mill his base to a minimum height, .070" lower than his standard, but it was still higher than my rifle (30-06 FWT) required. I wanted to keep my Redfield sourdough front sight and the factory Winchester hood. Just an FYI from my investigation.

Ding ding ding ding ding!! We got a winner!

Try the Lyman 48WJS and then try that woefully lacking in adjustment Skinner, and if you still prefer the Skinner you can re-sell the Lyman easy-peasy. The Lyman 57 is functional, for sure, but it just ain't a Lyman 48.

But it does beg the question: why do you need to drill more holes in the receiver? They came d/t'ed for both receiver sights and scope mounts from the factory.

And another question, out of curiosity, what's the perceived advantage of .358 over .308? Animal to self: "Boy I'm sure glad that hunter only shot me in the chest with a .30 caliber bullet. If he'd nailed me with a .35 I'd be a goner."

My exact thoughts there, but you do it in such great detail. These guys must be new to the pre 64 model 70, because the 48WJS was my first thought. I can't really see a better sight going on one of these. Maybe they don't like the traditional look, and nice adjustability??? I also agree with Iskra John on getting the one that was made after 1947, so you don't have to modify your stock. No inletting and messing up the originality is numero uno as far as I'm concerned. I didn't think I'd have to go into great detail and explain why the simple answer is the 48WJS, but that is it. Keep it simple and use what has worked for decades. Unless the OP is asking for something that is more modern? I'm sure you have seen the rear scope base that also has a peep sight that flips up and then folds down when using a scope. Those were made by Redfield and I always thought they were kind of cool, but how good are those really? I'd probably just as soon use the factory irons. We might be all washed up on this one man. Not exactly sure what the OP is looking for.

Personally, I was interested in less bulk than my traditional side mount receiver sight on my pre 64. It would be a set and forget installation sighted for my 200 gr. Partition load. A 1 piece, machined fixed peep mounted on the rear bridge would be perfect, bombproof and unobstructed visibility for quick shots in the elk timber.

A Lyman 48WJS is the classic receiver sight for the M/70 and would be my choice, it mounts without altering the wood or metal. The Lyman 57 was the economy version and I've always thought it looked cheaper though both will get the job done.

I bought the latest "cheaper" model Lyman a few years ago for my pre-'64 M70. It works fine and has plenty of adjustment, even for lower velocity cast bullet loads.

The Lyman 48WJS and all of its variations are The Gold Standard for use on a M70.

While I’m not exactly new to pre-64s, I’ve never installed a peep sight on one. And while I’ve seen plenty of examples of model 70s with peeps installed, I seem to always recall noticing the stock had been modified as well to accommodate the sight. I do lack much knowledge when it comes to the various models of sights, and I surely didn’t want to do any cutting or modifying to the stock. Also, when I wrote my OP, I did it without considering the two factory drilled holes on the left side of the receiver. Yes, I’m familiar with them and know what they’re there for, but for whatever reason it just didn’t click to me when I wrote my OP.

My intended purpose for the rifle will be hunting large game (elk, moose, bear) in thick cover. I agree that the adjustability of a Lyman or Williams is nice, but I don’t know that it’s something I’ll really need as I expect I’ll mostly be looking at shots 200 yards or less. The skinner appears to be what I had in mind and I somewhat expected a higher front sight post would be needed after doing similar work on my Marlin.

Regarding my choice for the 358, it’s somewhat a want, but practical in nature. The barrel I have seems to be shot out. I picked up the rifle for $300 in a pawn shop with considerable use. The bore was very dirty and shot like crap, so I cleaned it thoroughly and shot some more. Still no good until I started loading 125 grain flat base bullets. That’s pretty limiting, so I’m just taking what I have and trying to breathe some new life and use into it. I will also probably load reduced/cast bullets through the rifle for fun and smaller game like deer in pigs, in addition to loading heavier, full power loads when the rifle finds new life as a 358W.

I tried one on a 270. Couldn’t get a zero and didn’t wanna mess with the front sight. Ended up scoping it but I liked the sight.

Model 70’s with factory stock inlets still equipped with their original Lyman 48WH and Lyman 48 WJS receiver sights are treasures.
Agree with the consensus re. using the redesigned sight base that was adapted to the stock contour on ALL stocks that were not factory inlet.

Gotta ask: Why couldn't you "get a zero?" Lyman sights are adjustable through a hellaciously wide range of movement.

To the OP: Aha, I get why the desire to rebore. Sounds like a plan to me.

Sure, the two Lyman sights may have a lot of superfluous range of adjustment for the rifleman who simply wants to "set and forget for a specific load". But, the thing is that when you sit down at the shooting bench to sight in they make life so much easier than when dicking around with cheap sights with crude (or nonexistent) adjustments. I'm here to tell you that can be an exercise in frustration. The Lyman sight elevators (and Redfield and Williams for that matter) can be locked down securely after zero-ing with no fear of coming undone. Just don't be tempted to twiddle the windage knob afterward and it'll stay put forever too. They also have a tiny set screw in them that you can bottom out after setting elevation that allows you to remove the sight staff for cleaning or whatever and then return it perfectly to its original setting.

Another thought: if the rifle will absolutely only ever be used in the thick dark woods where range is measured in double-digit feet more or less, perhaps a simple wide shallow V-notch rear sight, such as the old English Express sights found on African stopping rifles, coupled with a big fat gold or ivory front bead might be a viable solution too. No known sighting arrangement was ever devised for fast and hairy "up close and personal" shooting in thick cover. Frankly that's what I would want on such a rifle - beats hell out of a scope when you've got about a half second to get the shot off. The rifle will perform like a good shotgun - coming up, swinging on the target, pointing like an extension of your hand.

Thanks, Gnoahhh. The idea of a shallow v safari type sight is appealing and may be a great solution. I have never actually shot a rifle with that set up, but I do understand how it would be a quick set up to visually acquire and shoot with. My question is, how does a shallow v with large globe style front site tip equate to accuracy at relatively long distance, say 200 yards?

Couldn't get it to impact low enough. I assumed I'd have had to change to another front sight, but I loss interest and scoped it.

Not well. It falls into the category of having your cake and eating it too. Now you know why quick detachable scope side mounts, like the Griffin&Howe, were popular back in the day - they made for a very versatile package. I put my money where my mouth is once by doing that very thing with an XTR Featherweight (a 1980's 6.5x55). I installed a G&H mount with Lyman Alaskan, mounted a Lyman 48WJS, and swapped out the barrel sight for a folding leaf sight with a wiiiiiide shallow V. The gold Sourdough front side served for both the iron sights. Which sighting arrangement I went with on a particular day of hunting was determined by the terrain I would be loafing in. It worked quite well, and yes hardly a day goes by that I don't regret selling that rifle......

That's a sweet 270 fwt. Did it have the original front sight? It looks a little short in the picture.

No idea, it was one of the first 270 FW's I snagged from Bob back in the day. My favorite rifle...

Classic look, even more so with the cloverleaf tang. Very nice indeed!

An inexpensive solution would be a Williams peep sight. My first pre 64 I bought was a Featherweight in '06 that had a Williams peep. There was quit a bit of grime around it when I removed it. I think that rifle had probably never had a scope on it.

Those are actually good general use aperture sights. I have bought a few pre 64's that had them.

Great pictures 160!

Are these current production sights y’all are referring to? I’m familiar with Williams sights, but not the particular models y’all are referencing. Would either of you gents be kind enough to provide a model number or link to such a sight? Thanks!

I'm sure BSA an post a picture for us. Their Foolproof model comes to mind.

The Williams site shows that all of the Foolproof sights for Winchester Model 70’s are discontinued.

I could. I was just looking at one yesterday. I'd even send it to the op for $10.00 if he wants it, or wants to try one out.. That would cover shipping to his house..

I have two Lyman steel aperture sights. I don’t need both. PM me if you want one.

Wow BSA. That is very generous of you. I’d be happy to take you up on the offer but would prefer to pay you for the sight and not just the shipping.

Let me get a pic of the rear sight for you first and see if you actually want it.. I need to make sure I have the mounting screws for it too.. don't worry about paying more than $10 for it. I told gnoahhh that I'd pay something forward for him sending me some cast bullets for my new 30-30. Glad to do it man, if you need it, or want it..

Alright guys. I know I've bought a few rifles with these sights and they work well. The nice thing about them is there is no big adjustment screws to get snagged on schidt and it is extremely lightweight. It's actually a pretty clean way to go about setting up your pre 64 with a rear aperture for hunting. Again, like I said before, many of these that I've seen had missing apertures/screw in apertures. This makes this sight more like a "ghost ring" and great for hunting. It lets you get on target very quickly and better in low light situations. Now, while my first thought for a pre 64 is the venerable 48WJS, it is actually pretty hard to beat this combo on a nice light featherweight rifle. The wear on the edges of this one shows whoever owned it before me used it quite a bit. I actually don't mind the wear around the edges, as it blends in well with the aluminum butt plate and the honest wear on the floor plate and trigger guard. This rifle is in overall great condition, yet the worn sight looks right at home on it. 1956 30-06 FWT. One of my babies:

First picture is of course the 2 screws where you will mount the rear sight to. These are factory drilled and tapped and found on all pre 64 model 70's:


Next pics are of the sight base. Make note on how well it fits the receiver:



(also notice the clearance between the sight base and the stock)

Here's the actual sight, when not on the rifle:


Now when it's on the rifle:





Like I said previously, this one is the OP's if he wants it..

I was going to run my 270 pictured above with the peep. Figured it would be cool to have a peep sighted one to mess with. Didn’t work out so now I keep looking for one that I can put a peep on

That 06 is great looking.

Thanks buddy. I've had it for a while. Like I said, it is my baby. Made the same year my parents were born, so it's a keepsake. It's a shooter too. It does not mess around:


Shot with its American made Burris FFII 3-9X40 on top. I've shown pics of it before:

Of course, I glass bedded it because I know I'll never get rid of it..

You have a few to choose from. The recent ones you got from Bob's kids may suffice?

Those are going to get set up for my two boys I believe.

Not saying I won’t shoot them a little

Ha ha.. yeah, that is cool man. Your boys will love them!! I'm assuming they are later fwt's. Those were some of Bob's favorites. 1959-1963..

I think they’re mid 50’s. Let me check.

349XXX for the 270.. Haven’t seen the 30-06 yet.

BSA, that is just what the doctor ordered. I would love to have it. And I know just what you mean about the large hole where an aperture may be missing in these sights. In the Marines I trained with an M16 A2. On that rifle you have two peeps, the standard and that the 0-2, which we commonly referred to as the “fat girl” because you only took her out at night, or as the name indicates, at close range. That little sight will be perfect for my needs. I’ll send you a PM with my info. Thank you very much!

Bugger,
Thank you too, for offering up one of your Lyman’s. I’m going to take BSA up on his offer and I don’t want to be greedy. I won’t lie, this thread has peaked my interest in sights and I’m interested to see what’s out there, but perhaps someone else might have more of a need then me. If time passes and you still have one to get rid of, please let me know. Thank you.

Sounds great man. Glad to help you out on this..

When you're speaking of a quality receiver sight, especially on high power bolt rifle, you're describing an "instrument". "Best of class!" I do surely hear the remark typical concerning such as the Lyman 48, in terms of bit of "bulk" and also edges that catch on gun cases, clothing or brush. A penalty, for which the reward in "instrument quality" and as particularly noted above not the fussing around getting it "regulated". If your field world is at a relatively fixed range distance, a variety of less expensive serviceable sights, but then less excuse for not using a less expensive scope with ease of adjustment. I don't think there's any one good answer. The person, time place, circumstance including inclement weather... Not to mention front sight as also noted above.
The Lyman 57 series is also quite good. Less expensive than the 48 and most of the attributes of dimensions and quick setup. The Redfields are "next quality" to me but factually about the same. From there such as Pacific Sights, reflecting decent 'purpose oriented' if clunky sturdy species!
Last bit of trivia perhaps, "Hunter" rounded top knobs are slightly more 'anti-catch on everything' but require a device of "coin slot" dimensions for the 'price' of convenient adjustment. I'll take target knobs, thank you!

I don't know about you all, but I've enjoyed this Thread.
With Thanks!
John

One of my favorite topics, M70’s and receiver sights!

I just want to note (unless noted earlier and I missed it) that Williams made two different models of receiver sights. The FP (fool proof) which had the internal micrometer adjustments. Also the 5D ($5 dollar) which did not have click adjustments, simply slides and lock screws.

I agree with the others that the Williams FP is one of my favorites. Once locked down it’s very solid.

In regards to the Lyman, the 48 is wonderful but the 57 is horrid in my opinion. The slide wobbles in the shoddy aluminum base and no means to lock it down.

The older steel redfields are a great option as well and usually much cheaper than the Lyman 48 if one is hung up on having steel.

For Standard M70’s I usually try to hunt down a steel sight to match the steel bottom metal and buttplate. For featherweights, I like the Williams FP as the aluminum ages the same as the bottom metal and buttplate, + keeps with the light weight theme.

Good post Tom.