Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Rear Sight Location Change Pre 64

Good afternoon, running into something I haven't seen before. Replacing a barrel on a shot out 300Wby back to original 300 H&H and the location of the rear sight boss / bulge in the barrel is different between old barrel and new. They're different by about 190 thousands. Everything else is identical, including overall length. Does anybody know when this change occurred? Or do I just have a one-off mistake barrel? The replacement barrel doesn't fit in the old stock due to the difference in location sadly, so deciding where to go from here...

Thanks!

The Pre '64 Model 70 was never FACTORY offered in 300 Weatherby Mag! So as I'm reading your Thread... You have a Win pre '64 factory labeled 300 H&H barrel rechambered to 300 WM. You have a replacement 300 H&H Factory barrel which doesn't fit the stock you have. I'm also 'presuming' the barrel diameter is less than the stock opening or otherwise simply to modify the stock as required.

I'm unsure what "factory" differences there 'may' have been especially in "prewar vintage" where I know there were different barrel dimensions in 375 H&H prewar, but no info about such era variations in 300 H&H.
You might start by posting clear pix of the barrel nomenclature. If you can, someone here can likely tell whether pre- or postwar era. Also the barrel underside should have a code date.

I'm talking about 'feeling the way' to an answer here. An expert may have far better info. I have both pre and post war 300 H&H Models and can reference barrel nomenclature pix IF I have them in file. Yet that nay or not answer your question.

A rule of thumb over multi decades since these guns were made, plenty of opportunity for barrel, stock, etc., alterations. The preconception that what you're viewing is factory original may be a misleading false premise. But you need also possibly to be sure the Stock is correct as there may have been a stock swap and adaption.

I do applaud your choice of restoration primarily for the fact that the H&H is a great round still classic-viable today. The 300 WM is far more an era affected 'also ran'. There are simply era improved "short mag" dear comparable choices!

Good luck & Just my take!
John

Sounds like someone probably set the barrel back too much. What you do from here, entirely depends on cost effectiveness of the project. Do you look for another hard to find barrel? Do you modify the stock? How original is the stock??? If the stock is not 100% original, I'd modify it to make the barreled action fit. That means, if it's been glass bedded, if the stock has been cut, if it's had a recoil pad added, if someone has refinished it. If anything has been done to the stock rendering it not 100% original, I'd go to town on it to modify it. It would not hurt my feelings one bit. Now, if the stock is in prime condition, I'd probably think about finding a different more original barrel. My smith always told me when he rebarreled a pre 64, he liked going with barrels of the same decade the receiver was made. If you chose to modify the stock, you can re inlet without any issues, then make a dummy screw to go in the forend. It will be a non functioning screw, but you don't need it anyway. Just how I'd attack that problem. Hopefully my explanation makes sense. Here's my 300WBY that doesn't have a forend screw, since I put it in a Brown PoundR stock:


The barrel is completely freefloated and it shoots lights out.

I'll see if I can get an image to upload. This is of a friend's 300 H&H action showing the measurement that I'm interested in. My action is at my gunsmith's out of state, the original barrel that (shot out) was LONGER rather than the replacement factory barrel. My smith compared against the factory H&H replacement barrel he'd found as well as a 264 that he had laying around and both came up short by comparison. The inletting on the stock (a factory stock but modified) does not match up with any other pre-64 barreled actions that my smith has laying around, so very curious what's going on here for informational purposes mainly at this point.

The stock has had a replacement butt pad put on and been cut flat unfortunately so it is not perfect/original. At this point I think I've got an H&H length pre-64 action that might as well be used for a custom build. I've wanted a 300 H&H for a long time for nostalgia purposes and know where a near original one can be had to scratch that itch rather than monkeying with this one and knowing it'll never be right.

BSA, thanks for the info, your rifle is an excellent example rifle of what can be built from these pre-64 actions. I'm debating which direction to go from here, main options being 300Wby (Don't really need another 30 cal magnum), 400 H&H (unique cartridge but difficult to find ammo), and most likely a 416 Remington (Tons of load options, reasonable ammo availability, and a nice step up from my 375). Considered a 458 Lott but several wise friends counseled me that it's "Too much of a good thing." Would love to hear your opinion if I've missed anything.

Hmmm. A conundrum for sure. Since the original stock has been messed with, you can inlet it for the new barrel. I'd also glass bed it at that point and freefloat the barrel. I realize a lot of guys don't do this anymore, but that would be an hour job for me, at the most. That would include shortening the forend screw and epoxying it in to appear original. You dang sure don't want to redrill the stock for the new location. That would look like crap. I guarantee anyone would point that out at first glance. The way I am proposing to do it, "none would be the wiser". Not that you are trying to mislead someone. That's just the way it would be. Or at that point, you could go with an aftermarket stock. Again, with most of those they don't even use the forend screw, so it does not matter. Also, the picture of the rifle above (im assuming your buddies), is a pre war standard action rifle. The sight boss appears to be closer to the receiver than my 300WBY (rechambered from 300H&H). But after taking measurements, it is close enough. Within .020". I still feel like if your new barrel is shorter, then someone shortened it. But .100" seems way excessive to me.

This is what I came up with on my rifle, if it helps:


It is what I assume a very common measurement, as even the Brown stock was inletted for the standard action and it was spot on:



It's freefloated exactly how I like them too^^^ Also, they do not use the forend screw, as previously mentioned:


That is the only thing that would concern me with your stock. But if you made a dummy screw and epoxied it in, it would be a non issue.

Thanks BSA, he took some measurements today and here's what the original 300 shot out barrel comes in at relative to the 300 I posted above.



He compared to several others at his shop including the new 300 H&H. The old barrel is certainly unique in every dimension. No idea how this happened, and the new barrel matches length with the others in shop, so it isn't shortened.

Veddy interesting. All of my rifles are fwt and my other H&H receiver has a custom 338wm barrel on it, with no dog knot. I do have 1 other barrel out in the shop with a dog knot on it. I will go and measure it. I don't know what the measurements you are posting on your last pic are in reference to? The measurements I just got on the 30-06 standard barrel I have in the shop, match my picture above. Near identical. If your new barrel is not very similar, there is something wrong with it. Maybe even something wrong with your smith. Just sayin.. Does redneck or anyone else have dimensions like this to compare to?? Also, the picture above of your friends 300 is not an H&H receiver.

Maybe the ‘new’ barrel has been set back?

Could this being a pre war rifle, have any thing to do with the issue?

That is what I said, as well..

I'll have him ship me the junk barrel so I can get pictures of it with a couple other of my pre-64's side by side for comparison. Measurements I listed are in reference to the initial notecard shown above with the unoriginal as per BSA, 300. The NOS barrel matches the dimensions of the other pre-64s he had laying around, so pretty confident it is not set back. This smith has never led me astray before and knows his stuff in my experience. My suspicion is that the old junk barrel is some sort of oddball. Serial number on my receiver is 2464XX, so not a pre-war rifle.

Returning to suggest something I ordinarily wouldn't before at least letting this Thread 'season' a bit. That is the opportunity for it to be thoroughly vetted here. But as you speak of procuring an original barrel for measurement, the banter moved to action with expenses and nuisance. So moved to recommend the Winchester Arms Collector's Association Website re original Pre '64 Model 70 barrel specs. Lou Luttrell is perhaps the most knowledgeable among such experts and nowadays, the Forum is more liberal concerning discussing "altered guns" as other than blasphemy! If its guidance about "original factory barrel dimensions", he's one of 'the men' to consult. If its to hypothesize concerning spectrum of modifications, when, how, etc. Better not go there. Sort of a code of ethics which as a member I applaud and endorse.
Just a suggestion.
Good Luck!
John

Your buddy is going to tell him the same exact thing I told him.