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One of the other interesting things about this rifle, the King rifle and any other rifle that was ordered by an employee and finished thereafter is that a finished receiver would need to be totally disassembled, finish removed and then engrave hardened steel.
If I understand the normal production process, the engraver would get unfinished receivers with "soft" steel making engraving easier than hardened steel.
Engraving of a finished rifle can all be done, but with extra effort.

Not sure about the checking. Can checking be done over a finished stock/fore? I suppose it matters whether the finish was oil or gloss finish.


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OK. I HAVE to ask. With the vast knowledge base here, has anyone ever heard of this guy, Spittler?


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What I understand he was a foreman of the stock shop and a master engraver himself.


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Originally Posted by JoeMartin
What I understand he was a foreman of the stock shop and a master engraver himself.

Just to be clear. What I maybe should have asked was, had anyone knew of him before Joe's rifle.


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Originally Posted by Southern_WI_Savage
Not sure about the checking. Can checking be done over a finished stock/fore? I suppose it matters whether the finish was oil or gloss finish.

Standard protocol is to checker after finishing, no matter if an oil finish or a barrier finish.


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Stephen, there’s a very informative article on the Iroquois Arms Collectors website about the Newton Rifle that indicated a group of 5 or 6 Savage Arms employees travelled ‘up the Canal’ from Utica to Buffalo in 1916 to work at The Newton Rifle Co.
The article indicates that John Spittler was foreman of the stock making department and principal engraver at Newton until his return to Savage. There is a portion of this aforementioned article in the John Spittler Savage Arms thread that Joe Brady started here several days ago.
I know very little about Savage Arms history , but I came across John Spittlers name and his association with the Savage Arms Co, while looking for info on an engraved Newton Rifle 4 or 5 years ago.


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From the overall photo the checkering looks like grade C. Maybe he engraved it on his own time before the rifle was blued.
But I have seen several rifles where additional factory engraving was added later and the bluing doesn't look touched up. For example my F engraved rifle. It was at the factory for 5 years before it was shipped to the owner whose name was engraved on the bottom of the receiver. I doubt if he ordered it in 1901 and it didn't get shipped until 1906. Therefore his name was probably engraved on the rifle about 1906. But then again maybe it was engraved in 1906. However, it is matching #'s with high grade wood, C checkering and pistol grip. It was probably all done at once. But then "With Savage Never Say Never".


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Originally Posted by Poconojack
Stephen, there’s a very informative article on the Iroquois Arms Collectors website about the Newton Rifle that indicated a group of 5 or 6 Savage Arms employees travelled ‘up the Canal’ from Utica to Buffalo in 1916 to work at The Newton Rifle Co.
The article indicates that John Spittler was foreman of the stock making department and principal engraver at Newton until his return to Savage. There is a portion of this aforementioned article in the John Spittler Savage Arms thread that Joe Brady started here several days ago.
I know very little about Savage Arms history , but I came across John Spittlers name and his association with the Savage Arms Co, while looking for info on an engraved Newton Rifle 4 or 5 years ago.

Thanks Ted. I appreciate it.


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It was probably finished say 1902 and whoever ordered it died.

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Originally Posted by JoeMartin
What I understand he was a foreman of the stock shop and a master engraver himself.
That was at Newton Arms. And I'm not sure about the "master engraver".. haven't seen a source for that. Engraver, yes. Not sure what makes an engraver a "master engraver"?

I found that a John Spitler was registered as a Savage Arms toolmaker in 1918. We all know how those toolmakers are. grin


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Originally Posted by Longbeardking
OK. I HAVE to ask. With the vast knowledge base here, has anyone ever heard of this guy, Spittler?
I'd feel a lot better with more and definitive information on both Spittler and King regarding their engraving.
Not too many generations removed from King's work, his family is adamant that King engraved what is known as the King rifle. That is believable.
Spittler is brand new to me and Joe's research indicates the rifle was shipped to him and that he had connections to Newton, Savage, stock making and engraving. That's believable too.
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Are there enough examples out there to rule out it being done by Gough or Rentschke?

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Originally Posted by triple_deuce
Are there enough examples out there to rule out it being done by Gough or Rentschke?
Rentzschke was ~1955-60.
Gough came to Savage from Fox ~1930. Is known to have contracted earlier. Gough was kind of high brow and generally selected the most ornate jobs that challenged him.
This rifle was born in 1909.
Dates don't seem to match.


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Ok. Says it was sent back to Savage in 36 but the story i got was for a shorter barrel. Was the job recorded for that or to be engraved?? At this point im really not concerned about it. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Southern_WI_Savage
Originally Posted by triple_deuce
Are there enough examples out there to rule out it being done by Gough or Rentschke?

Gough came to Savage from Fox ~1930. Gough was kind of high brow and generally selected the most ornate jobs that challenged him.

Well this rifle seems to certainly qualify in regards to being an ornate job. And we know the rifle went back to the factory in 36

So....

Why not?


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Originally Posted by 99guy
Originally Posted by Southern_WI_Savage
Originally Posted by triple_deuce
Are there enough examples out there to rule out it being done by Gough or Rentschke?

Gough came to Savage from Fox ~1930. Gough was kind of high brow and generally selected the most ornate jobs that challenged him.

Well this rifle seems to certainly qualify in regards to being an ornate job. And we know the rifle went back to the factory in 36

So....

Why not?

Excellent point Randy, a shoemaker certainly didn’t carve and checker the stock and engrave Joe’s gun.
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We've seen a few other rifles that Gough seems to have engraved that were in the B, C, etc engraving styles.

Gough engraving on those rifles definitely did NOT look like Enoch Tue's versions.

This being a Gough engraved gun was one of my initial guesses, even before he got the letter saying there was a work order for the 30's.

But if Stippler engraved for Newton.. still possible it was Gough, but I'd lean towards a guess that it was his own work.


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That’s why I asked if anyone had ever seen a confirmed factory engraved Newton Rifle. There is one example of a factory engraved Newton Rifle on the NRA Museum website and the engraving while nice doesn’t approach the quality of the engraving on Joe’s rifle. Just saying that if Spittler engraved the Newton Rifle in the NRA Museum he couldn’t have engraved Joe’s rifle.
Another salient point is that an awful lot of Gough’s engraving is executed over stippling.


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You did mention Gough Rory before i even bought it but with the back story i just dismissed it.

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Originally Posted by triple_deuce
Ok. Says it was sent back to Savage in 36 but the story i got was for a shorter barrel. Was the job recorded for that or to be engraved?? At this point im really not concerned about it. Thanks.
I think you are on the right track.
You've got some pretty good information already.
Obviously questions remain.
If/when other information, proof, theories come available, explore them and maybe the picture will become more clear. Takes time.
If it's any consolation, I think the King rifle sold last time for ~$49k. Granted, King is known as carver for Savage and Winchester. And the King rifle is carved. But it does have debatable engraving too.


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