Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles future proof rifles

boys are real young, thinking of future uses.

in 2023 a stainless 700 in 223, 20" 7 twist in a carbon stock seems about as future proof as a guy can get. 13.5" LOP.. won't worry about bases, rings or scopes although swfa 6x in lows should be fine there

should i get the barrel and action nitrided? thinking of a harder carbon steel if i go that route.

but getting the logistic train side of thing sorted.. jugs of Ramshot TAC and 75gr bthp and cci 400's??

any combination is on the table. been hiking a bunch training for a tahr hunt. good thing to ponder and forget the suck.

First, an older proven caliber, 223 rem is good but how about 243 or 308? If you reload it would be very flexible. As they grow , and rifle ownership becomes restricted ammo and component availability might be a concern.
Second, the rifle itself should be of a known quality, and up to a lifetime of use. That is all up to you and your budget.
Thirdly, quality scope, good glass will improve a marginal shooter. But cheap glass will ruin a great rifle.

It wouldn’t be a mistake, that’s for sure. Mine is a 223AI which is probably not worth it for a kid’s training/fun rifle. My daughter loves shooting it- which is the dream, right? She’s busting clays @ 500 in the pic. I enjoy the heck out of it too - pure fun. If you are building it consider going with bottom metal for AICS DBM’s. That’s a 10-rounder in the pic.

What about when the bolt handle rips off?

I had hundreds of 700's. Not a problem. My major failures were an old model 70 and a Sako. What a crock.

Tell more, what was your experience?

The model 70 has a small button on the left side of the bolt. The one I had split and fell off. The rifle was inoperable. The Sako I bought in the mid 70s and I used it for several years. About 3300 rounds I was shooting prairie dogs with it and the bolt wouldn't open. I fooled with it for several months, finally sold it to a friend who had it for another 6 months. One morning he picked it up, turned it over and heard a click. The bolt opened. Found a small spring in the action had broken and locked up the action. I am glad both of these happened at the bench or close to home and not on a expensive trip.

Have a Kali 7" RPM 223 SALAMI,laying in a box of Mail I need to open. Lever and 88gr Smooches for me. Hint.................

If 223, a good AR with an adjustable stock will grow with your kids.

we might have that angle covered
what spout? and what's the action? you liking a .100 freebore? the last PBB 223 match or whatever they call i got it's pretty [bleep]. debating if just ponying up for a 'bart Modbb and enduring the wait times then having it sent to shaen. that PBB barrel lays pretty loose as you thread it on. cheap costs twice.

i probably shoulda grabbed more 18cent 88's when they were available.. but 55gr sp are still 9cents and we keep stockpiling em. lol

then again 22lr is plentiful and the reloading bench continues to sit idle.

I do too from a montana rebarrel. I really need to get it out and work a load up. Everything is waiting on me so I have no excuse. Starline brass for this one 88’s lever 400’s. I seem to remember you mentioning 24.5 is a place to start with.

I need to get a 6ARC out too. It’s setting on go too other than the new floor plate that’s ordered.

I'm thinking this is an X-Caliber 7" RPM,in a Skinny Bitch contour. GB Outlander,TT fire control,welded ADACR handle...the usual. Hint.

I'll get it carved open,here in a bit and take a look. Might go AICS M5 or massage an OEM box,which will fit the GB's issued inlet. Likely an 88 Smooch at 2.550" or so,though I didn't spec anything there,but my tastes tend not to change. Lotsa Lapooey Virgins laying in wait. Hint.

BabyMan just showed up,so we'll get a coupla programs going. He can yard schit open and I'll sort it out. Hint.

Fhuqking laughing!.................

Enjoy the visit and your helper…haha.

Just nabbed another Howie Mini Carbon Bitch(ARC),which should hit the porch by lunch. Shot (3) new scopes yesterday and it's looking like another (3) today. Piss flat morning for gunning Vudon't come-up's. Hint.

Likely to be another fair to middlin' day...............(grin)

How did the flush magazines work out? I have not ordered any yet.

save the CCI 400 for the hornet buy 450s for that project..

Have you had problems with 400’s in the 223? The 400’s work well for us but I’d be happy to try 450’s if they were more readily available. I suppose I am also holding off on buying primers I don’t need in hopes the prices will come down some too.

For what it's worth, I run 400s in my 6mm ARC and 450s in 223/5.56.

I have goodly supply of both, but shoot the 223 5-6 times for every 6mm ARC that goes downrange from my ARs..

The 450 Primer Notion is funnier than fhuqk and Windowlickers can't ever speak in the first hand. 400's will arrange lower ES/SD's and I'm loathe to suffer 450's,until going 308 sized cases. Hint.

A sound rifle is paramount and there's much to be said for concentricity and pin clearance. Same Lot of ammo,in OEM guise and then with bushed/turned 'pin. Hint.






Though in "fairness",I've not opened a bushed/turned .378" Big Green bolt,in about 5 fhuqking minutes. I bush 22 PPC AFI 700's too. Hint.








Very few begin to have an inkling to "pressure" and they'll reliably fhuqking prove same obliviously. Hint.

Bless her heart for trying though.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

Just sayin'. Hint.

Brokedick Droolers DREAM some HILARIOUS schit up. Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!...........

I ran many of 400s in 556 and proportionately only pierced a very small for percentage. however in 6.5 Grendel and 204 Ruger I have had substantial piercings 450s zero piercings.
As Stick pointed out over pressure is not the only reason piercings can happen. but primer is the easiest and first thing I would personally change and see if it went away.

(2) rifles is "cute". Hint.

I shoot 400's expressly in (13) 223AI's alone. Also in 224,243 and 264 Grendel,Bolts and Krunchentickers both in better than a dozen rifles. Can't even begin to know how fhuqking many 223's in Bolts and Krunchentickers. Hint.



You CLUELESS Fhuqktards are a hoot! Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGING!................

Are the 700 bolts going to Shaen now or still sending to Greg? I have a couple that need bushed.

^ same but Is Greg still taking orders these days?

Membership,has it's privileges. Hint................(grin)

Really? What might those be?

to circle back and to have something to chew on during tonight's mission up the mountain.

this is less about "flexing on poors " or here and now instant gratification.

but rather: it's the year 2075, what rifle are you glad ur dad got for you type of conversation.

For starters,I'm not the one asking questions and I am simply steeped with said wares,that actually exist. The polar opposite of you. Hint.

Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even you can "afford" to "contribute"...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..........

Well……. Dunno about THAT, but if it’s the year 2075 I think they’d be pretty appreciative that Dad got them something decent to shoot, in volume, and get good with, and spent the time with them.

I was pretty much on my own….. Dad bought me my first Red Ryder, age 5, circa 1970, I remember it to this day,…. wore that out, then I bought my 2nd, then a Crosman .177, wore THAT out, bought another, bought my first .22…. our allowance money went towards ammo, fishing tackle, and candy more or less in that order. Maybe swap the first two, depending.

There’s a lot to be said for NOT going too nice. Just a solid, basic, rifle…. give them a massive pile of .223, dare them to wear it out, rebarrel it if/when they do. Kids want a) your time and b) to not feel like they’re gonna get in trouble if they damage dads shiny things.

I say, fast twist 20” .223 on a M700. Not sure I’d invest in the carbon stock you mentioned earlier- why? Unless you have phat stax of course, then do as you will. Stick rec’d the stock on mine in the pic I posted and it’s a good one; it’s a GreyBoe Outlander I believe. Not a ton of money, nice stock.

The rifle they’ll treasure is one dad gave them and then they shot the shït out of it for years with dad!. Every ding and scratch will just be memories made…

88's are Smoochin' square at 2.530" COAL,which is a nice place to be and affords 90gr Beer Can utility. Hint.



Just sayin'..................

Just stop. Now I need to a) try 88’s and b) teach myself how to bush firing pins.

75 'Max,75 ELD,88 ELD and 90 Beer. Hint.



Lots there for poor poor(literally) DooshMike to Whine about,as she's never seen any of it in the flesh. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!............

For a guy left befuddled by unraveling a box of Noslers, I'd say put the bolt down and step the f uck away.....

I'm going with a criterion remage 7 twist with the 223 match chamber because it's throated out the most of the options they offer.

They had some on the shelf ready to go but i wanted shorter than they stock and threaded at the muzzle so I probably have a 6 month wait.

I'll try it in an mdt lss and see how it does but it'll probably ultimately end up in one of my old gen 1 ti saum stocks.

Bb

I've multiple James spouts in 223 SALAMI in 7,7.5 and 8" RPM...and all are fhuqking hammers. Always had them in a week,but I'm not much into fhuqking around. Hint.

I wouldn't want one in a MDT LSS or a Ti handle. Hint.

Sortin' through feed mechanisms now,for both the newest 7" 223 SALAMI and a Howie Mini Carbon 7.5" RPM ARC. Wayne's Howie bottom needs more spring on the floorplate latch,to increase positive retention. Go one tore apart now,looking for a better spring. Hint.



Won't be able to stand the 22" spout on the ARC either. Hint................

Getting closer. Opted Mag Shim Slide and Ear Trim to hold (6) in the belly. Proofed a buncha' times with (5) Smoochin' dummies. Hint.



Reticle alone,will get it to the 1000yd line and I reckon it'll be yet another Skookum Parcel. Hint.




Will slam glass aboard and start working Mini Carbon Queen ARC. Hint...................

Timney> Triggertech

Came together as anticipated. Hint.












AW...keep sucking ass,licking windows and "living" vicariously. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

Ryobi?

Stick,

What are your thoughts on an ideal lighterweight salami 223 with a criterion remage "James"? I have two more walmart clearance 700 223s that need worked over.

I went 20" light sporter 7 twist, I have TT triggers on hand. I'd like to just modify the adl mag boxes. I have some aluminum bar the right height to go the usual 2.6" on the mod.

Looking for stock that can adjust for the kids. I want them to put a lot of miles on these learning to dial and read wind. I want them throated for 88s but I also have thousands of 80g eldms I bought at 50% off. I prefer 75s or 88s so I want the kids burning these 80s.

I was thinking lss for the adjustable stock but would prefer an adl sporter style option. Maybe something with spacers for LOP? I'm going to need to get the bolts bushed. Where's the best place to send them too?

Bb

You guys using Lever with the 88’s?

'boy,

I find the LSS pretty unhandy for Duffers,unless you can plan to keep it on a bipod for 'em. Hint.

An ADL LW handle is a tough score anymore and a longer wait,with McMillan changing hands. Spacers are a tough deal too and I'd simply go a Youth handle,until the britches fit better. If I couldn't score Milled followers,I'd simply go AICS and never look back. Unless it was a Montucky. Hint.

An AR is rather tough to beat for Duffers and Hornie 75 HPBT's do nice thangs. Hint.

For a LW Rifle,I want lesser than a Pre-fit's contour and a shorter shank. Montucky of course,RULING that roost. Hint......................

I wish I had a few montuckys. I've been letting them drive my old 223 ai faux ti that I followed your lead on over 15 years ago.

The 21" pac nor 3 groove 8 twist mtn contour is still working its way through a pile of 75g amaxes. The kids get to fireform 100 lapua brass for me from time to time. I lose a few because that little rifle gets some field time.

I bought 3 aero m4e1 uppers and sequential numbered lowers for the kids already. Going s1 handguards but haven't settled on barrels. I like my 18" rifle length ones for myself but I'm going shorter and lighter for them.

My lightweight one they like has an old black hole weaponry 8 twist poly 3 groove 16" pencil. They fight over it so I'll find something similar for them. Looked at a faxon that was rifled about 14.5 with the last 1.5 being a built in break but I think I'd rather the option of changing muzzle devices or going thread protector.

I found a deal on some 16" .625 at block Hansen profile tubes that weigh 22 ounce. Might try one of those and if it shoots buy 2 more. Was thinking 12.5" handguard for the kids but wondering if 15 would be ok for them. I've got piles of 75 bthps and 73 eldms for them. They're learning to run the progressive so they can role their own.

Wish I still had enough 1st gen mtn contour ti stocks to cut a few down for them. I'd get some mtn brux 7 twists coming and pay to have them put on. The remage light sporter fits in the ti saum stocks I have. I have enough of those to cut a few down that's why I was thinking ti. They are still mostly adl but I've one that's opened for bdl and one opened for aics metal.

I had my remage 22 Creedmoor in a saum stock for a while and it was 1/2 or better with the first load for 88s even unbedded.

Wish kimber would bring back the 223 and twist it 7 this time.

The kids 6.5 g mini is in an LSS and it has always had a bipod on it. Didn't take us long to figure out it wasn't one for the bags sans bipod.

Bb

I do have an Adirondack in 300bo with the skinny 16" 7 twist factory tube with the flared out for threads muzzle. I got it out last year so the kid could try it out but I couldn't get the adl mag box to feed the short little bo rounds.

I tried the tricks I thought I knew with adjusting the spring and the follower angle but so far I haven't figured it out. It would make a great 223 if I had a skinny barrel plumbed on but I'd like to get it feeding as a 300 bo. Anyone know the trick to that?

The kids would love the 300 bo suppressed with subsonic. I could get an m&p hollow point mold for it and cast and powder coat some cheap ammo for them.

I don't really want to cut on the stock but it already weighs under 5 pounds. If they follow me the boys will hit 6 foot tall at age 11 and the lop will be ok.

Bb

I want 18" and Rifle Gas,but am happy to drop contours. I've seen longer handguards protect fingers and assist in keeping muzzles pointed where they should be,in order to preclude sight height POA/POI close proximity woes. Hint.

As to turnbolt feed/function woes on shorter cases,I prefer to shim the front of the box(aluminum) and carve a preemptive feedramp into same,which is a funnel to the funnel. It keeps case heads at a friendlier ride height,in relation to the bolt's nose. Hint.

Montucky 6BR here. Hint.





Have the boys Krunchenticking,until it's time for a Custom Turnbolt. Hint............

Pretty much like a 700 box mod but frontside with a dremil custom ramp. I have everything I need to give that a try. Figures if anyone has shorter than 223 on a kimber work around its stick. Once I get a 230g or so cast going that gives me some more customization options on the ramp if needed.

I was hopeful that the boys would like the little cz 600 trail I bought them last fall. It has about 4 positions on the collapsible stock, takes ar mags, and is 7 twisted and threaded. The barrel should be a lighter contour and I didn't really love the handguard and the way things went together.

As luck would have it the shop that I got my 7 prc element from yesterday had an employee that wanted a cz 600 trail. So I traded it off towards the element. The trail was a good concept I just don't think it was executed well and no one at my house is missing it yet.

Bb

It's The Reverse Mike Bryant. Hint.(grin)

CZ doesn't get much of anything right and still doesn't understand the merits of Stainless. Hint.

If I didn't have a Herd of Montucky 7 Whizzum's,the 284 Prick Element might really call me. The 264 Kreed's are Skookum. Hint.





I'd like to see an M5 DBM shroud for the Carbon mags,to help protect them under recoil and for a literal ounce of prevention. Hint.



I LOVE my Baby BR Montucky. Hint..................

I saw a used 8400 LA in 338 win the other day. Thought it might be a good one to rebarrel to 7 prc and then an even worse idea came to mind.

It's hard to want to change anything away from 7 but looking at the 7 prc makes me wonder what it would do necked to 6.5? The 6.5/7prc just to make it all more confusing. Maybe 147s at 3200 fps from an 8400 LA? Dies might be easy 7 prc fl bushing die and 6.5 prc seater?

I'd like an element in 6mm Creedmoor but I don't know if they exist so I had the local shop order a 20" way point. They have waypoints in 6.5 on the shelf and i really like the way they point.

I love my fieldcraft in 6 Creedmoor with 108s. I've only killed one buck with it at 425 but it worked very well. I found the bullet under the skin on the off should and it's perfect looking mushroom but peeled back a ways and missing maybe 30 grains.

Im not sure how the 108s would do up close starting them at 3000 in the Creedmoor but they should be awesome on game at the speeds I'm running them in my ar arc.

Bb

I'm happy to let BC do the heavy lifting and to simply watch the show. Hint.

A 8" RPM 284 Prick will scoot .838 BC Beer Cans at 2800fps+ and that is simply fhuqking SENSATIONAL. You gotta be in a Hurricane,to keep schit anywhere close to "fair". Hint.



The .243" 108 in a Kreed',is a nice place to be and not asking too much of a cup/core. I shoot them in 270,ARC,BR and all the way up to Six Twat-Six,with numerous stops along the way. In my Seex Kreed FC,I'm squirting 112 MB's. Same goes my FC 243 Win. They are also mainstays in my First Gen Havak and Waypoint. Hint.



The 243 Grendel don't give a fhuqk about much and projectiles behave VERY favorably in same. For travelling M4 feedramps,I trust in Hornie 105 HPBT's,whether Small Frame or Large Frame Krunchentickers...they don't give a fhuqk about anything and are ruggedly reliable. Hint...............

Those 108 and 105 HPBT’s are easy to like in the ARC or Creed. Have some 110 ATips but haven’t loaded one, yet.

The 243 Beer Cans are slick. Hint.



I think there's another 1000 112's in this pile of Mail. Hint.................(grin)

Have you used 112s on game yet? If so how did they do? I've taken deer with the 105 berger vldh and it worked really well even at only about 100 yards. I'll have to order some 112s.

Bb

I have and quite a few pards are gunning them now...from 6BR to Six Twat-Six. They are far more consistent/reliable than a Sugar and less zooky than a Booger. It seems I'm ordering them all the time. Hint..............(grin)

I'll put 500 on my next powder valley order. The 6mm Creedmoor has become one of my favorite rounds lately and hopefully I'll have another one to feed soon.

I also have a 700 243 I had built over 15 years ago by Jim See with an 8 twist brux light palma on it. I took it out last year after ignoring it for several years and put a new dmr bushy 3.5-21 on it. The rifle still shoots great and reminded me how much fun medium 24s with the right twist can be.

I'm coming to an end of my pile of 105 amax amps I've been driving in it since it was new but the barrel still has some life. With h1000 it gets over 3100 with the 105s but I'm down to its last 8 pounder from a case I bought back when you could get h1000. It's time to work a new load for the old 243 and the 112 looks like a good candidate.

Bb

I've better than halfa dozen Seex Kreed's now,all of which are Skookum. Hint.

Was thinkin' I smelled fresh boolits in the Mail. Hint.(grin)





While I obviously shoot 243 Win,I do muchly prefer the Kreedmire. I've had good luck with the DMR's. Hint.





I like Super' in both,with 105-12's and still have 105 'Max Love. Hint.



The 112's are gonna chew up COAL in the 243 of your's,but are happy in binderless AICS DBM's,barring a Linda Lovelace throat. Hint..................

I had that 243 throated for 105 amaxes at 2.79" back in the day when 6mm bullets didn't get much better than the 105 amax. I figured that would give me a bit to chase lands and it has but those 112s do look pretty long.

That's part of why I love the 6 creed. It leaves enough room in the mag box. I may need to convert the old 243 to aids because I won't go down the wyatts road again. Maybe I'll go to 108s in the 243 and switch the 6 creeds to 112s.

I've got a few thousand 108s on hand but the ar arc is using them too so they'll go away soon. Just before covid a local shop had 108s at $20 a box so I bought about 3000. Turns out the 6 creed fieldcraft loves 108s.

Bb

That must be an older midway screen shot for the dmr? The last 4 I bought was over a year ago and I paid around $800 each and thought I stole them. Too bad I missed that price or I would have stole 4 more.

Bb

While we're at it talking 112s and 223s etc what's the thought on 6x45 in say a 7 twist slinging 112s at a sedate speed? I've yet to do a 6x45 but I've been intrigued by one as an efficient round for a short barreled rifle.

Given today's 22 options like the 88 I'd concluded that a fast twist salami 223 is probably the better mouse trap but seeing the 112 bc above .6 has me thinking again.

Bb

7.5" RPM 19" MTU Bart' 270 on far right. Hint.





Bushed 'pin,Lever',yada,yada,yada. Hint................