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kenjs1 Offline OP
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I think this may be in the wheelhouse of many scratching for a new scope they might not entirely need.

My oldest scope is a 6x40 Philippine Burris #4. Been Great - still is. I haven't bought anything in a long while and last range trip thought a little extra power might be nice for load development (getting older) and a few less X" when I take to the field is proving something I have come to love.

Like many - I do not want to buy Chinese but after looking am finding it harder and harder to pull off without breaking the bank.

I am a fan of every Burris I have owned but the FullField IV is Chinese. Other wise cost and feature the 2.5-10 is spot on in every way with seemingly more positive clicks than some of my Burris (or Leupold).

Looked at an E1 -some made in Philippines but not crazy on reticle. Thought there was another thing about them I wasn't big on ....so I looked elsewhere.

Can't see me buying a Leupold Freedom. May seem silly but being truthful just feel I am past buying entry tier - no matter how good. I have a VX -3 but new ones have gotten pricy enough for me to look elsewhere. I don't think I am alone in this.

Considered a Swarovski 3-9x36 but they get a bad rap here and again....pricey.

After sighing and nearly pulling the trigger on a Burris I looked at Tract again and saw their Response line. Its lightweight which was another tick mark -and a huge bonus of a #4 reticle. Under $400.....Thinking hard about it.


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Everything you mentioned leaves a lot to be desired. Keep shopping for a good scope.

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The NIB Bushnell 3500 in the classifieds world be my first choice if I needed a new scope

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kenjs1 Offline OP
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So ....why not the Tract???


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Take a look at the Sightron S1 Gen 2 scopes.


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Originally Posted by kenjs1
I think this may be in the wheelhouse of many scratching for a new scope they might not entirely need.

My oldest scope is a 6x40 Philippine Burris #4. Been Great - still is. I haven't bought anything in a long while and last range trip thought a little extra power might be nice for load development (getting older) and a few less X" when I take to the field is proving something I have come to love.

Like many - I do not want to buy Chinese but after looking am finding it harder and harder to pull off without breaking the bank.

I am a fan of every Burris I have owned but the FullField IV is Chinese. Other wise cost and feature the 2.5-10 is spot on in every way with seemingly more positive clicks than some of my Burris (or Leupold).

Looked at an E1 -some made in Philippines but not crazy on reticle. Thought there was another thing about them I wasn't big on ....so I looked elsewhere.

Can't see me buying a Leupold Freedom. May seem silly but being truthful just feel I am past buying entry tier - no matter how good. I have a VX -3 but new ones have gotten pricy enough for me to look elsewhere. I don't think I am alone in this.

Considered a Swarovski 3-9x36 but they get a bad rap here and again....pricey.

After sighing and nearly pulling the trigger on a Burris I looked at Tract again and saw their Response line. Its lightweight which was another tick mark -and a huge bonus of a #4 reticle. Under $400.....Thinking hard about it.

I would not buy a china made Burris. That is where I draw the line with them. Why not a Philipine or American made FFII 3-9x40 with ballistic plex? Sounds like you like Burris and are looking for something "lightweight". The 3-9x40 checks a lot of boxes and it weighs 13 oz's, so it's not heavy by any means. With the ballistic plex reticle, it easily gets you out past 400 yards. Excellent for hunting applications and also messing around at the range. I use mine out to 400 yards, all the time. I've had the E1's and hate the reticle that does not extend out to the edge of the glass. Not my cup of tea. Never have been disappointed with a regular ol FFII though. I've also had the Swaro you ask about and after it failed to adjust, I had to send it down the road. Reminded me of Leupold. Its' your money to spend, but that's how I'd roll.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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I bought the Response. As soon. As it’s intended rifle is ready, I will take it to the range.

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The Weavers that Natchez has are made in Korea and are developing a good reputation.

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Originally Posted by SDHNTR
Everything you mentioned leaves a lot to be desired. Keep shopping for a good scope.

And yet I'd wager that 95% of all game taken in this country is taken with scopes that you believe lack a lot to be desired. But rail on, rail on!

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kenjs1 Offline OP
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I had an S2 Sightron. I liked most things about. It was a 3-12x42 which sounds perfect but had awful eye relief which was a shame. Getting an S1 now would seem like a step back.....maybe not in real world terms but in a silly part of my brain.
I have been a big fan of Fullfields and turned many here on to a smoking deal on a 3-9x40 #4 with illuminated center dot. Favorite hunting reticle and when I tested in low light against my Vx3- was every bit as good. Dot is a little large for load development. What I would like is something with more positive feeling click adjustments. Sightron had that and it was accurate but just not great in the field. The Leupold adjustments feel mushy and identical to the Burris I own. Minor beef I know and a FF2 does tick many boxes and sell for less than they are worth for sure. Maybe just looking for another option here.

Paul _ I helped a few buy some of those Natchezss Slams. Wish I would have grabbed one for my self when they were so cheap - I am a fan.

Looking forward to a review of the Tract .

Last edited by kenjs1; 04/03/23.

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Originally Posted by kenjs1
I had an S2 Sightron. I liked most things about. It was a 3-12x42 which sounds perfect but had awful eye relief which was a shame. Getting an S1 now would seem like a step back.....maybe not in real world terms but in a silly part of my brain.
I have been a big fan of Fullfields and turned many here on to a smoking deal on a 3-9x40 #4 with illuminated center dot. Favorite hunting reticle and when I tested in low light against my Vx3- was every bit as good. Dot is a little large for load development. What I would like is something with more positive feeling click adjustments. Sightron had that and it was accurate but just not great in the field. The Leupold adjustments feel mushy and identical to the Burris I own. Minor beef I know and a FF2 does tick many boxes and sell for less than they are worth for sure. Maybe just looking for another option here.

Paul _ I helped a few buy some of those Natchezss Slams. Wish I would have grabbed one for my self when they were so cheap - I am a fan.

Looking forward to a review of the Tract .

Good luck Ken. One thing I will add is guys should have bought some of the now discontinued FFII 3-9X40's with ballistic plex reticles while the prices were right. When they are no longer offered, prices are going to go over $200 for them. Just something to think about there. Good luck with the Tract, if you decide to go that route.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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If the scope will be used for big game, then reliability is paramount, too much time and money goes into hunting these days for equipment failure to ruin a hunt. For punching paper or ringing steel, the less expensive options have merit if price is a determining factor.

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kenjs1 Offline OP
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Thanks guys, I found an article in Rifle-scopereview .com about the Weavers updated Classic line and the arrangement with Natchezss.

Gotta thank Paul on this after seeing this particular line item:
  • "The optical quality of the newer Classic scopes seems better than the optical quality of the original Weaver Classic scopes. I’d say that these newer Classic scopes offer glass quality that is about on par with the older Weaver Grand Slam series of riflescopes:


Happy with that! These have tougher, improved, lens coatings as well. Made in Korea- which I can certainly live with.

A ballistic reticle option (ok I may 'prefer' other ones) but practical looking power and focus rings, easily managed non-tactical turret caps and and I am sure the great Weaver adjustments I have liked so well in the past. 1" tube, 3-9x40...$130 or so which to me puts them in realm of smoking deal on Philippine Fullfield II ...only maybe even nicer a tick nicer assuming the brightness and view is close enough to call a wash.

I couldn't find weight or dimensions but imagine I can make this work on my short action Rem 700 6mm. Thinking....why not? If it sucks....I can give it to someone in need or keep as a backup.

Still want to her about that Tract first but promising.


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Originally Posted by 257Bob
If the scope will be used for big game, then reliability is paramount, too much time and money goes into hunting these days for equipment failure to ruin a hunt. For punching paper or ringing steel, the less expensive options have merit if price is a determining factor.

Just think of all the unreliable POS Leupolds, guys have used over the years. They don't track well and don't adjust properly, but they hold zero most times. I'll give them that. The term "set and forget" was invented just for those scopes. With that being said, I'd trust my FFII's anywhere any time and on any hunt. YMMV. So when you say "less expensive", they should not all be put in the same category. I've had Swaro's that I would not trust as much as a much "less expensive" FFII's. IF you have not tried one, maybe you should.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by kenjs1
So ....why not the Tract???

I have several of the Tract toric scopes......made in Japan. fantastic scopes IMO
But had a rifle I did not want to spend that kind of money on so I tried one of the response scopes....and have been very satisfied

Made in the Phillipines but still a quality product

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Originally Posted by 257Bob
If the scope will be used for big game, then reliability is paramount, too much time and money goes into hunting these days for equipment failure to ruin a hunt. For punching paper or ringing steel, the less expensive options have merit if price is a determining factor.

Have owned and hunted big game with a LOT of scopes over the decades--and have had far more "field failures" with more than one brand of pretty expensive scopes than Burris Fullfield IIs.


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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by SDHNTR
Everything you mentioned leaves a lot to be desired. Keep shopping for a good scope.

And yet I'd wager that 95% of all game taken in this country is taken with scopes that you believe lack a lot to be desired. But rail on, rail on!
Because 95% of hunters in this country don’t even know what they don’t know.

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Originally Posted by SDHNTR
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by SDHNTR
Everything you mentioned leaves a lot to be desired. Keep shopping for a good scope.

And yet I'd wager that 95% of all game taken in this country is taken with scopes that you believe lack a lot to be desired. But rail on, rail on!
Because 95% of hunters in this country don’t even know what they don’t know.

95% of hunters kill stuff within 250 yards.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Have owned and hunted big game with a LOT of scopes over the decades--and have had far more "field failures" with more than one brand of pretty expensive scopes than Burris Fullfield IIs.
I could write volumes about the veracity of Mule Deer but most of it would fall on deaf ears. With respect to hunting, shooting and outdoor pursuits Mule Deer has "been there", "done that" and could clothe most of North America with the t-shirts he earned that testify his having "been there" and "done that" over and over and over again.

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kenjs1 Offline OP
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Absolutely- thanks for chiming in JB.

I still have two aging Fullfields on rifles. Any time I thought to 'upgrade' I would pull out my rifle an look through them....and change my mind.
Yes turrets could be crisper (same can be said of Big 'L") but they still work fine.
Update is probably more for change sake than real "need". I been moving away from fixed 6x's as newer scopes offer brighter views and I found I prefer heading in to the field at low magnification.

Over the many years here I have recommended Weaver K series then Burris FFII's to many folks and never felt I steered anyone wrong.

I am curious about the newer Weaver Classics (not a Simmons rebrand) and am guessing it won't give up anything to a newer Fullfield E1. Anyone compare the two and have an opinion ?

At these prices there is really no risk and ticks several checkboxes:
*Non Chinese
*Fully multicoated (yes I am old enough to remember when that was a thing)
*Finger - Click adjustments (insert above parenthetical here)
* Lightweight
* No major mounting or eye relief concern (still want to see measurement specs though)
* A BARGAIN.


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