Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns The Hollow Points Never Reached The Vitals

I would not consider a hollowpoint for that scenario at all.

I load my .45 Super and .460 Rowland with 255 grain LFN GC bullets, 300 grain WFN GC in my .44 Magnum. I like the Brinnell Hardness above 18.

The bear around here are not as big, nor have I ever had one give me a hard time, but you never know.

Thanks for posting that video, I hope it encourages a civil debate. Choice of bullet is very important and can make a difference between a mauling or not.

Hard cast LBT type WFN bullets or all I use in my 44 mag & 45 Colt revolvers and my 10 mm and 45 acp auto loaders. They will damn sure exit big ole tough boar hogs after reaching the vitals. Rarely ever catch one in a animal.

Handguns are sure better than nothing. But I bet those guys were wishing the rifles had not been left elsewhere.

The wider meplats of revolver bullets leave larger would channels, but penetration is the most important. Can't be effective if the bullets doesn't reach the vitals

Yep.

Thanks for posting! However, some will continue to use HP’s in spite of overwhelming data that shows their potential ineffectiveness! Some folks are incapable of being educated!

For my handgun……400 grain, wide metplat, homegrown cast @ 1600 mv. Obviously, more velocity than needed….but it’s also my hunting load, the higher velocity makes for a bit flatter trajectory at potential hunting distances! memtb

Good Lord, what handgun are you using that slings 400 gr. bullets to 1600 fps?

Maybe a 500 S & W Magnum ???

I’ll pass. A 300 gr Hard Cast LBT WFN bullet out of a 45 Colt at 1100 fps out of a 45 Colt in a Ruger Bisley BlackHawk is more than enough IMO.

Nowadays, I mostly hunt with a 260 gr WFN LBT Hard Cast at a 1000 fps. Kills big feral hogs and deer like the hammer of Thor. 😬

Too bad they didn't trace Tyler's 10mm bullets. That would've been interesting. I suspect Tyler's bullets caused the bear to bleed out from lung/liver damage. But it took time.

Long ago JJHack, ( professional damage hunter with a couple hundred black bear kils using a 4" 629) concluded that a 44mag hollow point killed much faster than hardcast. A HP caused the bear to stop and chase the wound, whereas a bear seemed unfazed by a hardcast hit. Of course JJ's bears were likely in the 200'ish pound range - half the weight of the Grizzly in the video.

But a 4" 44mag is going to move a 240gr HP 1209-1400fps - a power level far beyond a 10mm. I wonder if a 240gr XTP @1300fps would penetrate far enough on a 500+ pound bear?

There is no doubt that a big bore revolver loaded near full potential with heavy bullets clearly out does the 10mm semi auto. However, plenty of big bore revolver guys are carrying "packing pistols" of about 4" in barrel length and in the interest of recoil control and faster follow up shots they download their magnum cartridge a little. A 4" .41/.44/.45 revolver with 220-250 gr. bullets at 1200 fps makes a fine packing gun that is shootable in a crisis situation. And in the case of the .45's with hardcast it would cut a significantly wider wound channel that would create more damage inside a big mean critter than a 10mm. With that said, the full powered 10mm ain't no slouch and compares pretty well with those packing pistol loads when the 10 is stoked with a 220 gr. hardcast at 1200 fps. Going beyond the semi auto vs. revolver thing and focusing on power levels and necessary penetration it would seem the 10mm isn't too far off a typical 4" sixgun load.

If I remember correctly, and it has been a while, JJ stated that the lethality was the same, it's just that the bear "noticed" the hit with the HP bullets, which I believe he stated to be 300 grain XTPs.

It may be worth something to divert the attacker's attention, but I still don't trust HPs for bear defense. But it's still there in the back of my mind.

One of the benefits of the WFN/LFN design is that it will penetrate the skull when the HP would tend to ricochet. Penetration with hardcast LBT-types also tends to be more straight line than jacketed expanding types, too.

Two reasons I've moved towards the more powerful loadings in an autoloader, for defense, is less recoil and more firepower. I can get more shots off in a given time vs revolver and have more shots available. We won't compare reload times.

Now, if I am hunting, a powerful revolver is what I'll choose.

I shot an artic grizzly with a 475 Linebaugh Ruger Bisley a 390 grain LFN at 1350 FPS. The bear came in as I was working a moose kill. It only took 1 shot from my revolver

That beats 10mm, but not by as much as you think. 200 gr hardcast DoubleTap loads chronographed 1315 fps from my Glock 20. That 10mm load is almost certain to out penetrate a 44 caliber HP. And the 44 caliber bullet is only 29/1000" larger in diameter. About 1/2 the thickness of a dime.

I don't live in big bear country, but I've camped in Yellowstone twice and left the 44 at home in favor of 10mm. Having a smaller, more compact gun holding 16 rounds vs 6 that could have an attached light was more important to me than a small increase in power. And I do live where 200-500 lb black bear are pretty common. State record is 673 lbs.

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/673-pound-black-bear-may-new-georgia-state-record/

You are discounting frontal arwa and the larger diameter bullet. They count a lot more than FOE which I no longer give much credence.

When I was young. I didn't know anything about how to test bullets. No internet, and I didn't read much. I was very curious, and used all manner of objects to see what different bullets might do. For handguns I used a cast iron skillet buried in a damp sand berm. Back then I saw that most HP's lost their jackets, and the lead core broke up. The semi jacketed flat nose bullets also lost their jackets, but the lead core tended to stay together. Not always, but more than not.

I also saw first hand the failure of 22LR HP's on small game.

I've not been partial to HP's ever since. I do use them for certain things, but I don't seen them as a panacea.

I've read that a twelve gauge pump with slugs or a big bore lever is the go-to stick for big bears. Pretty hard to lace up ones boots, or skin out a moose with a long gun in your hands.

Now that I handload I usually have cast lead swc's in my revolvers. I load HP's too, but prefer the heavier ones.

JJ was shooting small black bears out of trees. Large bears don't climb trees because they are too heavy

No sir, actually a 460 S&W! Recoil is pretty positive……but, certainly not “unbearable” (se what I did there 😂) memtb

I had my head up my behind…….actually only 1500 fps. My apologies!

460 S&W with 8 3/8” barrel! Supposedly they can be pushed a little faster…..but these are pretty accurate @ 100. memtb

Download for faster followup?

Sounds rather silly to me.

If using for defense against something w claws n teeth I'd run 265s cranked in a .44 mag.
At a minimum.

BTW, saw a used Smith 329PD today. Sure is tempting. I shot one w hard cast 250 ish and it wasnt bad at all (w wood grips). Indeed shot recovery would be a little slower, that thing moved a bunch.

But I haven't found a 629-3 4" at decent price. So maybe the 329..............