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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,276
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,276 |
i never wanted a easy button but that was just the way i was brought up ,maybe that`s why my body is all beat up ? and now i had to switch beer brands what a dirty world , oh that`s right we were posting about the grand old 257 Roberts !
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,071
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,071 |
i never wanted a easy button but that was just the way i was brought up ,maybe that`s why my body is all beat up ? and now i had to switch beer brands what a dirty world , oh that`s right we were posting about the grand old 257 Roberts ! Probably a bunch of beer brand changers as of late. I like Mathman’s “easy button” solution and I like my Roberts. Got’em both. Both keepers. DF
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,817
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,817 |
My 250 and 300 Savage 700 Classics aren't going anywhere.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143 |
Maybe someone will come out with a 25-08 factory chambered rifle. Doubt there’s a market for that one. DF That's what the 6.5 Creedmoor is... the "Better Bob." Didn’t someone come up with the .25 Souper (25-08). Didn’t set the woods on fire regarding popularity. Probably enough .25’s already. I like my .257R and my Creed. DF P.O. Ackley said that Warren Page created the 25 Souper. I have a 25 Souper and think that it is basically a 257 Roberts with a 6mm shorter case length, 51mm vs. 57mm, so theoretically it fits in a short action with fewer COAL issues when loaded with longer/heavier bullets.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143 |
Have owned, handloaded for, and hunted big game a lot with .25-caliber cartridges including the .250-3000 Savage, 257 Roberts, .257 Roberts Ackley Improved, .25-06 and .257 Weatherby Magnum for many years. All will kill game up to elk with the right bullet and bullet placement--and within the range the bullet will expand and penetrate.
While I realize this isn't the minutiae argument the Campfire prefers, this has been my experience with probably 100 big game animals.
Oh, and the .25s also work on varmints... You forgot in include the excellent, but mostly ignored, 25 WSSM! Never saw much point in the .25 WSSM, since it's (was?) basically a very short .25-06. Though shot a lot of prairie dogs with one when it was first introduced, during a hunt hosted by Winchester. But my old friend, fellow gun writer and Montanan John Haviland, has used one considerably--including to take a B&C bighorn ram with the tag he finally drew maybe 12-15 years ago. John's a long-time fan of the .25-06, and was totally convinced it was the best .25 until trying the WSSM. Not too long after he got the ram, we both went on an "industry" hunt on the King Ranch in South Texas, along with some other folks. The company was USRAC, and the rifles provided were Model 70s in .257 Roberts and .264 Winchester Magnum, and a Browning 1886 in .45-70. I worked up handloads for the .257s and the .45-70, since another "shortage" was occurring and factory ammo was scarce. The .257 load used H4350 and the 115 Nosler Partition, at 2900+ fps. John had never killed anything with .25s other than the .25-06 and .25 WSSM, and apparently guessed the .257 Roberts wouldn't kill as well. But on the last evening of the hunt I got a shot at a 180-pound feral boar at around 200 yards, during the last few minutes of light. There had been a LOT of recent rain, and the grass was very high. Luckily, the pig was feeding alongside a dirt 2-track, and I managed to get with 200 yards--and had shooting sticks. Instead of trying to get fancy and try for a head or spine shot, I aimed just behind the shoulder and that's where the 115 Partition landed. The pig collapsed and never moved. John said something like "Wow!" (I did too, silently. Have yet to hunt with any cartridge that always drops 'em right there with broadside lung shots.) The other nice thing was the boar tasted fine.... I think that the point of the whole WSSM line was that short, fat, cartridges were widely thought to be more inherently accurate and a super short action rifle would add incremental shelf space options to Winchester/USRA's and Browning's lines. I'm a fan of the 25 WSSM, but realize that it isn't everyone's cup of tea and would never recommend them to anyone. The 25 WSSM was only cataloged by two producers, Browning and Winchester/USRA, and only in the Winchester/USRA line for two years before the production plant in New Haven, CT, closed in 2006. Also, the drought of good component brass has been a problem, both in availability and quality. I have shot a lot of pdogs with the 25 WSSM, as well as a few deer. The heaviest whitetail that I've yet to take, around 275 lbs. field dressed, was a one shot dead in its tracks kill with a behind the should POA. It was so dead, so fast, that I thought that I'd missed it or it was wounded and had run off with the herd of does that it was with. I had to go back to where I took the shot and try to follow the line of sight until I stumbled across the body. I had to cut him in half to load him in the truck, 'cause I couldn't lift him to load him whole. That said, any other 0.257" bore cartridge shooting the same bullet, a 110 grain AB, at the same velocity and the POA would have killed that deer just as dead.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,071
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,071 |
Never handled one, but wasn’t there something about the WSSM rounds not feeding too smooth? I would assume the factory versions had that worked out. Adapting those rounds to std actions may have been the rub. Trying to remember.
DF
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,276
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,276 |
the only problem with the 25 WSSM is brass is hard to find , and expensive when you do find it . > Winchester made a big mistake i feel when they should have made a 25 WSM then they would have had a cartridge as fast as a 257 Weatherby mag. , easier to find or make brass and cheaper too. >many of us have always wondered why not a 25 WSM ? or maybe Remington ,Ruger or Hornady should have or could yet make the 25 WSM ?
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,825
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,825 |
I seem to recall that Winchester tried to develop the 25WSM but encountered some pressure spike issues, so went with the WSSM instead.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,276
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,276 |
I seem to recall that Winchester tried to develop the 25WSM but encountered some pressure spike issues, so went with the WSSM instead. >THEY SHOULD HAVE TRIED HARDER
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,407
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,407 |
My 250 and 300 Savage 700 Classics aren't going anywhere. I just bought a 250 Savage 700 Classic and have not shot it yet. One issue with the 300 is the j-lock, which I could probably over look. Some have reported issues with them - others say there’s no problem. I’m thinking the 250 would be at least as good a deer cartridge as the 243. I’ve shot a four deer with my 300 Savage 99 and I’m confident that the 300 is a good deer cartridge too - 4 one shot kills so far. I have a friend whose only center fire is a 300 Savage 99. His experience is all thumbs up.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,076
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,076 |
Bugger,
Have mentioned this before, but the longer I've hunted and the more big game I've seen killed, the less difference I've found in how well various cartridges kill.
Many rifle loonies like to obsess over minutiae, such as a muzzle velocity, foot-pounds, bullet weight diameter, etc., but by far the two most important factors (I might call those that make a real difference) are bullet placement and terminal performance: If the bullet lands where it needs to, then expands and penetrates the vitals sufficiently, there's damn little difference, whether discussing deer or whatever.
This especially applies to cartridges that are far more similar than different, such as the .250 Savage and .243 Winchester.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,139
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,139 |
Mule Deer, that's heresy! Obviously my favorite cartridge has a magical edge in killing power. Think it has to do with ballistic coefficients, sectional densities, and shoulder angles, but I'm not sure. 🤔
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Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 341
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 341 |
I used to have a USRAC model 70 Featherweight in .243. I had heard a few comments that the .243 was marginal on deer so I was a bit nervous taking it hunting. First time out with it, I hid behind a downed tree overlooking a hay field. It was a warm fall day, and I had a new baby at home, so was not getting much sleep. Anyway I dozed off and when I woke up an hour or so later there was a group of 5 or 6 deer in the field maybe 150 yards away. I put a careful shot behind the shoulder of the nearest buck and he dropped instantly, disappearing in the tall grass. The other deer bounded off. I reloaded and waited a minute or so, wondering if my marginal .243 had done the job when I saw the tips of his antlers moving through the grass as if he was sneaking away. I took a guess as to where his vitals were, shot again and he vanished in the grass again. When I went down there I found 2 nearly identical 8 point bucks, both dead.
Last edited by UnderMountain; 04/16/23.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950 |
Under, Funny story.
I like the 257 since it has enough extra .000” over a 243 to be a “Man’s” gun ………… but it has enough history behind it to not get called a “ManBun”.
Having enjoyed reading here since before I signed up in 07’ I have learned deer die with a 223 and good bullets.
I’m sure the 257 Roberts will work which ever way you load it, up to AI levels or down toward 250-3000.
And I bet your two bucks would have both failed to survive either choice.
Your on the path to a good hunt.
I used to only shoot shotguns and rimfires, then I made the mistake of getting a subscription to handloader.......
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 982
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 982 |
I have enjoyed this thread immensely, as I have a 250-3000 and believe much of what was said here has some application to the old Savage cartridge. Mine is a Ruger M77RSI with a 20 inch barrel (Mannlicher stock) and I have to believe it can handle the 65000 pressure, same as the 6mm Rem and .270. I'm not looking to hotrod it necessarily, but there must be some performance potential to be accessed safely between the 48000 SAAMI standard and the 65000. Factory ammo is hard to come by and the Remington is PSP, NOT Core-lokt. Not sure if Winchester loads it any more. I've only seen one box of Hornady Custom ammo for sale in the last five years and they wanted mucho dinero for for that, so I decided they didn't really want to sell it and left it there.
Fortunately, I have 500 pieces of new Remington brass acquired at a gun show several years ago. Unfortunately, Hornady has discontinued the 100 gr. Interlock .257 component bullets, though that's exactly what they load in their Custom ammo and I just have a hunch that could be a 'perfect' bullet for the .250-3000.
Hornady 115-117gr .257 IL bullets seem to be plentiful and relatively cheap, but I wonder if they were designed for 25-06 and Weatherby velocities. I also wonder if the Savage would spin them fast enough to stabilize. Has anyone here loaded the heavier bullets in the Savage? What was your experience with them?
I'm also not concerned about making it a dinosaur slayer. It's a dandy little deer stand rifle but if I had a chance to hunt something big (Nilgai? Elk?) I would just take my 7mm-08, 30-06, .270 or 7 Mag. I also have a .260 Mountain Rifle that punches above its weight with 140 Nosler Partitions...you get the idea. Ruger 77 RSIs would probably balance better if they had 20" barrels. You're probably right; it may be an 18" or so. I haven't spent a lot of time measuring that barrel. It's probably my Custom Shop Model 7 with the laminated Mannlicher stock that has the 20". I have met a few guys who claim they like the balance of the long action RSI a bit better as well.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143 |
I have enjoyed this thread immensely, as I have a 250-3000 and believe much of what was said here has some application to the old Savage cartridge. Mine is a Ruger M77RSI with a 20 inch barrel (Mannlicher stock) and I have to believe it can handle the 65000 pressure, same as the 6mm Rem and .270. I'm not looking to hotrod it necessarily, but there must be some performance potential to be accessed safely between the 48000 SAAMI standard and the 65000. Factory ammo is hard to come by and the Remington is PSP, NOT Core-lokt. Not sure if Winchester loads it any more. I've only seen one box of Hornady Custom ammo for sale in the last five years and they wanted mucho dinero for for that, so I decided they didn't really want to sell it and left it there.
Fortunately, I have 500 pieces of new Remington brass acquired at a gun show several years ago. Unfortunately, Hornady has discontinued the 100 gr. Interlock .257 component bullets, though that's exactly what they load in their Custom ammo and I just have a hunch that could be a 'perfect' bullet for the .250-3000.
Hornady 115-117gr .257 IL bullets seem to be plentiful and relatively cheap, but I wonder if they were designed for 25-06 and Weatherby velocities. I also wonder if the Savage would spin them fast enough to stabilize. Has anyone here loaded the heavier bullets in the Savage? What was your experience with them?
I'm also not concerned about making it a dinosaur slayer. It's a dandy little deer stand rifle but if I had a chance to hunt something big (Nilgai? Elk?) I would just take my 7mm-08, 30-06, .270 or 7 Mag. I also have a .260 Mountain Rifle that punches above its weight with 140 Nosler Partitions...you get the idea. Ruger 77 RSIs would probably balance better if they had 20" barrels. You're probably right; it may be an 18" or so. I haven't spent a lot of time measuring that barrel. It's probably my Custom Shop Model 7 with the laminated Mannlicher stock that has the 20". I have met a few guys who claim they like the balance of the long action RSI a bit better as well. I'm one of those who thinks that the long actions 77 and Hawkeye RSIs balance a little better than the comparable short actions, as do the 20" Remington 7 MS, and every Husqvarna with a Mannlicher-style stock that I've ever held.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950 |
Revival of an older thread with some good 257 info. Just got a small stash of Speer TNT 87 gr bullets they must have run. Anyone here have a load they like using these in their Roberts for ground hogs and paper targets?
Seems Speer must have set up for 257 since I see 100 gr hot cores are showing on their website also
I used to only shoot shotguns and rimfires, then I made the mistake of getting a subscription to handloader.......
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,323
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,323 |
Been a while since I've done any shooting due to a vehicle wreck and other problems. I have two rifles chambered to the .257 Roberts, a Ruger $1B and an USRAC M70 Featherweight. The Ruger came with 120 rounds of Norma 100 gr. factory ammo and shoots it lights out accurate. The M70 FWT os a flat out dog so far with everything I've tried I basically wanted to shoot the 100 gr. TSX as my son in laws M70 FWT is a tack driver with that bullet. Mine scatters it all over the place along with everything else I've tried in the rifle. Tried glass bedding, a tigger job, new crown on the muzzle, all screws properly torqued using nail polish to help them stay tight to no avail. Yes, I've tried a different scope that I know was good. No change.
My legs, actually the knees are pretty well gone so walking out to set up targets isn't possible. You have to grab a base and stand as well right off the bat an take them out at 100/200 yards.. Range officers had a meeting a while back and furnished new rules. Now I can't drive out to set up or check targets. There's the county range which is even more strict.
Funny thing I have the same M70 model FWT in 7x57 as it's a very accurate rifle.
PJ
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them.
MOLON LABE
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,562
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,562 |
117 Sierra and H4831 has been the most consistantly accurate for me for 47 years for me.
Lung soup anyone?
There is no retreat but in submission and slavery!
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143 |
Been a while since I've done any shooting due to a vehicle wreck and other problems. I have two rifles chambered to the .257 Roberts, a Ruger $1B and an USRAC M70 Featherweight. The Ruger came with 120 rounds of Norma 100 gr. factory ammo and shoots it lights out accurate. The M70 FWT os a flat out dog so far with everything I've tried I basically wanted to shoot the 100 gr. TSX as my son in laws M70 FWT is a tack driver with that bullet. Mine scatters it all over the place along with everything else I've tried in the rifle. Tried glass bedding, a tigger job, new crown on the muzzle, all screws properly torqued using nail polish to help them stay tight to no avail. Yes, I've tried a different scope that I know was good. No change.
My legs, actually the knees are pretty well gone so walking out to set up targets isn't possible. You have to grab a base and stand as well right off the bat an take them out at 100/200 yards.. Range officers had a meeting a while back and furnished new rules. Now I can't drive out to set up or check targets. There's the county range which is even more strict.
Funny thing I have the same M70 model FWT in 7x57 as it's a very accurate rifle.
PJ If you did all of the remedial things that you've listed, it sounds like you got a bad barrel. Have you slugged the bore to see if it is oversize?
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