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Joined: Dec 2004
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Why wasn't the word "creedmoor" incorporated into the powder coating concept from the very beginning?


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Originally Posted by outahere
If, like most folks, you have a lubesizer like the RCBS or Star you can (must) lube and size at the same time ... one operation. Bullet fit is key and if you are lucky enough to have a mold that casts the exactly correct bullet diameter than no sizer is needed. Chances of that happening are slim though.

Point is that you are likely to need to size your bullets. You will then also need to lube. Lubing makes sizing easier so why not do both operations at the same time.

Have not seen the point in powder coating - yet.

There are other ways. I have three lubesizers. None of them will size a bullet straight. They all want to cock the bullet sideways when entering the die. Because of this I size all of my bullets through a Lee push through die. NOE also offers a push through system but I have no experience with it. I then lube my bullets is one of the lubesizers in a die that is at least .001" larger than my bullets. I don't have crooked bullets this way. Many say that your bullets should be at least .001" or more larger than your bore. I take a different approach which has worked very well for me. I use the largest bullet that will fit in the neck of the case and still chamber in my rifle. This will also result in enhanced accuracy. I have not seen the point in powder coating either.
Good Luck all!
Rick

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You discovered that not all lubrisizers are created equal. I had a Lyman 45 that was so misaligned that I ended up throwing it in the trash rather than foist it onto someone else. Another sizer, a Lyman 450, has a loose sloppy fitting ram that dances all over the place but I found that to be an advantage as it self-centers as the bullet enters the die. The other two sizers I use, an RCBS and a Saeco, were nicely line bored at the factory and perform dead nuts straight. (I tend to keep two of the sizers set up for my most commonly used handgun bullets and the Saeco gets switched around a lot for rifle sizes.)

When I get serious about pure accuracy in a rifle I strive to have a mold created that matches the throat in the body of the bullet and the bore diameter (not groove diameter) in the nose, created out of a specific alloy. Custom mold makers today are very adept at making molds that drop bullets at a prescribed diameter if they know what alloy you intend to use. (Tom at Accurate Molds is a wizard at that.) Then I'll either pan lube the bullets or lube them in a machine with a slightly oversize die like Rick does - either way allows their use as-cast. If it's a gas checked bullet the check either gets installed via the gas check seating feature on the Saeco or in a push-through die. Off the shelf molds often involve application of skullduggery skills to make work which makes for lots of chatter on advice forums. By following simple protocols for determining optimal size, predicting a favorable alloy, going with a known design and employing a moldmaker who knows his stuff, then success right out of the gate has great odds of happening (which translates into satisfied cast bullet shooters). It's really that simple. Where guys get in trouble is when they don't follow basic protocols, listen to Jake down at the corner bar, view old wive's tales as gospel when trying to make mass production molds match their needs. Don't get me wrong, there's lots of fun to be had there. Outwitting a recalcitrant old gun with a recalcitrant old mold has its own rewards!

Case in point: I went through three Lyman/Ideal #311284 molds before I found one with nose dimensions that suited a Krag rifle. Could've saved time and money had I just called Tom at Accurate Molds.....

As for bullets being .001" over bore diameter (and I'll guess you actually mean groove diameter, as bore diameter is across the tops of the lands, ie: the bore before it's rifled), that's a hit-or-miss proposition. It sometimes coincides with throat diameter, sometimes not, and it's throat diameter that drives best performance. (I have another Krag with a .312" throat and .309 groove diameter/.302 bore diameter which will pose a challenge.) Ditto making bullets at largest size to fit a case and still chamber - not a bad approach, but a crude acknowledgement of throat fit.


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I guess that whole diatribe partially explains one reason I drag my feet over powder coating. It's one more fly in the ointment when chasing those oh-so-critical dimensions of a cast bullet.


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
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I recently upgraded to a Star sizer after wrestling with my RCBS that was sizing crooked. I PMed with a poster here who has given me good advice in the past and we figured it out and got the RCBS running again. But I’m pretty sure after I get caught up buying all the dies I need, I’m not going back to a push pull sizer.

I sized a few hundred bullets night before last, in about 1/3 of the time it would have taken with the RCBS. They’re all straight too.

IC B2

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