Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles I am here to eat crow, having learned my lesson

A couple comments:

Shrapnel almost always jumps into these threads, saying he's used H335 for many years in his .223s and never had any problems.

But one thing he doesn't mention is that he HATES hot weather. I have shot PDs and "gophers" (Richardson's ground squirrels) with him many times over the years, and cannot remember ever doing so on a day over about 80 degrees.

Might also mention that I have tested a bunch of powders at temperatures from zero F. to around 100 degrees--and by that I mean in actual temperatures including the rifle, not just chilling or heating the ammo, which only rarely produces similar results. The velocities of the best temp-resistant powders don't change much at all from 70 down to zero, and even somewhat below zero. But they ALL result in faster velocities (and hence higher pressures) at temperatures above 70, usually becoming more obvious around 80.

The more temp-resistant powders, however, do tend to gain less velocity/pressure at over 80 than "standard" powders. Also, even the most temperature-sensitive powders (among which I'd list H335) don't vary much in velocity from temperatures in the 20s to around 80. Or at least none of the presently produced rifle powders I've tested have.

All of this is why I prefer the term temperature-resistant, rather than temperature-insensitive. None of 'em are totally immune to temperature, especially heat.

A couple comments:

Shrapnel almost always jumps into these threads, saying he's used H335 for many years in his .223s and never had any problems.

But one thing he doesn't mention is that he HATES hot weather. I have shot PDs and "gophers" (Richardson's ground squirrels) with him many times over the years, and cannot remember ever doing so on a day over about 80 degrees.

Might also mention that I have tested a bunch of powders at temperatures from zero F. to around 100 degrees--and by that I mean in actual temperatures including the rifle, not just chilling or heating the ammo, which only rarely produces similar results. The velocities of the best temp-resistant powders don't change much at all from 70 down to zero, and even somewhat below zero. But they ALL result in faster velocities (and hence higher pressures) at temperatures above 70, usually becoming more obvious around 80.

The more temp-resistant powders, however, do tend to gain less velocity/pressure at over 80 than "standard" powders. Also, even the most temperature-sensitive powders (among which I'd list H335) don't vary much in velocity from temperatures in the 20s to around 80. Or at least none of the presently produced rifle powders I've tested have.

All of this is why I prefer the term temperature-resistant, rather than temperature-insensitive. None of 'em are totally immune to temperature, especially heat.

A couple comments:

Shrapnel almost always jumps into these threads, saying he's used H335 for many years in his .223s and never had any problems.

But one thing he doesn't mention is that he HATES hot weather. I have shot PDs and "gophers" (Richardson's ground squirrels) with him many times over the years, and cannot remember ever doing so on a day over about 80 degrees.

Might also mention that I have tested a bunch of powders at temperatures from zero F. to around 100 degrees--and by that I mean in actual temperatures including the rifle, not just chilling or heating the ammo, which only rarely produces similar results. The velocities of the best temp-resistant powders don't change much at all from 70 down to zero, and even somewhat below zero. But they ALL result in faster velocities (and hence higher pressures) at temperatures above 70, usually becoming more obvious around 80.

The more temp-resistant powders, however, do tend to gain less velocity/pressure at over 80 than "standard" powders. Also, even the most temperature-sensitive powders (among which I'd list H335) don't vary much in velocity from temperatures in the 20s to around 80. Or at least none of the presently produced rifle powders I've tested have.

All of this is why I prefer the term temperature-resistant, rather than temperature-insensitive. None of 'em are totally immune to temperature, especially heat.

You and the others didn’t really read what I said. I didn’t blame the fast twist for the problem of over loading a cartridge. I did qualify that statement with theory. Yes, I am not a fan of fast twist 223 as it has become the golden boy of many that think it is some magical combination that kills like the hammer of Thor.

The truth is that long range shooting with high BC bullets is done with larger cartridges, the 223 is used in 3 gun or military categories and as such is limited by it’s case capacity to compete in long range shooting other than those disciplines.

All the guys that tout the killing ability of the fast 223 cartridge, I have no doubt have done it, but the message to the neophyte is that he could get the fast twist 223 and magically become Daniel Boone.

There is not a person on this board that has killed more game without a 223 or more varmints with a 223 than I have. I am not posting pictures of holes in paper and no one else is showing the superiority of the 223 with enough experience that doesn’t come from a background of shooting and hunting skill. That, I believe is sending the message to the beginner that the 223 with fast twist is as capable alone as it is without the experienced shooter behind it.

Dead pigs and other critters killed with the 223 are not in question, it is the continual insinuation that a 223 is a long range cartridge, and it can’t possibly compete with a 22-250 sized case or larger with a fast twist to shine beyond the limits of the velocity of a 223 and a heavier bullet…

There is not a person on this board that has killed more game without a 223 or more varmints with a 223 than I have.

NOW THERE IS A BOLD STATEMENT. BOTH ON GAME AND DOGS.

Bulllshitt

I have shot prairie dogs with H335 in weather above 90 degrees and still had no pressure issues. I am talking about real life experience and not surmised or hearsay. Mule Deer has a selective memory and likes to bring up instances where he looks as good as possible, he does have an image he needs to keep up.

Yes, John and I have shot a lot together and he would be amiss if he didn’t admit that I do have good guns and hit more than I miss with 223’s loaded with H335. John also is the one that made the sarcastic statement about how all the trucks driving around Montana with cracked windshields was due to cartridges loaded with H335 and cracked those windshields from cooking off in the heat.

John will also remark how I sight guns in on rocks and not always paper targets. He is also right about that, but it produces the same results that bsahunter does with all his targets.

Nobody else but John and HawkI have any ability to comment on what or how I shoot.

Curious what temps Pharm?

Can’t be that hot in OR yet.

These threads are always fascinating. They really demonstrate why one must being careful taking advice about anything from the internet, especially when it comes to load data. Another example is a thread sometime back where 30338 posted about an overload situation. The thread didn't gain as much traction, but was enlightening nonetheless to the dangers of hot loads.
A couple observations:
The two guys espousing H335 on this thread are also the two guys who've never found fault with Leupold. Make of that what you will.
A lot of the love for H335 around here back in the day was originally because of Big Stick, who pushed its use, though he lives in a locale where the temperature varies something like 30-40 degrees over the entire year. His sycophants picked up on the idea, but many later found H335 lacking in more varied environments. Yet many have still take his advice on powder selection, even when he espouses temperature sensitive powders like Leverevolution.