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I wish Hornady would not have kicked these two to the curb. IIRC they quit making two of the best bullets for these. I still have about three hundred 265gr. fp. for the 444.

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Originally Posted by jeeper
I wish Hornady would not have kicked these two to the curb. IIRC they quit making two of the best bullets for these. I still have about three hundred 265gr. fp. for the 444.
Hornady seems to have that rep. It’s dangerous to have a fav Horn bullet. They’ll throw it to the curb.

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I bought one of the Lee sizers for .348 but have since sold the gun. If interested in it, contact me.

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I just like the .444 better both are very good

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by jeeper
I wish Hornady would not have kicked these two to the curb. IIRC they quit making two of the best bullets for these. I still have about three hundred 265gr. fp. for the 444.
Hornady seems to have that rep. It’s dangerous to have a fav Horn bullet. They’ll throw it to the curb.

DF


^^^^


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The model 71 rifle is stellar and 348 is a interesting but it's too rare and expensive to get ammo or components. The Browning BLR 358 I'd one can aquire one is an easier solution but there's also another close competitor and maybe better. The 338 Federal. This uses the same weights as the old 348win and there's far more bullets available. I have an old steel frame BLR with the new style magazine that I could have rebored.

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It’s not that difficult to find brass and bullets. I bought brass here in the classifieds and on line. I have Hornady, Barnes and a couple smaller company’s bullets. Then I bought cast bullet, which shot very well for me and with iron sights. (50 meter groups)

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

It shoots Barnes bullets well too. I have tried other bullets and loads yet. But these bullets are easy to find.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Last edited by Bugger; 04/29/23.

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few years ago i purchased a Winchester 71 348 special " they were not called deluxe" mine is about 99 % from a very old gentleman who knew i would take care of his pride and joy his 348 and now its a safe queen . myself i always wished Browning would have manufactured some BLR`S in a 338 Win. mag. S.S. alloy frame , my reason is with the 338 Win mag. cartridge this cartridge would do well at close range on an animal and still do well out 400 yards or maybe farther , and brass for a 338 Win. mag. is very easy for me to get too.


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I sold the 444 long ago. I could not find written records, I probably lost it on an old computer that failed, but I found a couple of targets:

444 Marlin, 265 grain Hornady, 45.5 grains IMR4198, 1.05 MOA
444 Marlin, 310 NEI (cast - no gas check), 42 grains RE7, 11.46 MOA

I suppose that Hornady bullet would have worked fine. I wanted a cast bullet shooter and I couldn't get heavy cast bullets to work well. I know I shot a lot of loads through that 444 but these were the only targets I could find.

Last edited by Bugger; 05/06/23.

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People that can't handload blame the rifle for its performance. I own a lot of 444s and all of them shoot great. They will shoot anything from a 240gn to a 405gn. My favorite is the 265gn and 290gn. If you take advantage of the bullet molds available, you can cast very good performing bullets. The myth about them not shooting cast bullet is perpetrated by those that can't be bothered to learn how to feed them. The Marlin 444 is a much stronger gun then the marlin 45-70 and is much better shooting. One thing it is not........is a stretched 44 magnum cartridge. I usually let the b.s. slide when ignorant people push it on the internet, but when they repeat it several times in one post and say it as if it is a fact and they know what they are talking about, then I feel compelled to speak up. My guns will take anything from mice to Mastodons, Bigfoot to black helicoptors, and do it without dislocating my shoulder. There are only two kind of people. Those that shoot 444s and those that wish they did.

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Originally Posted by jgt
People that can't handload blame the rifle for its performance. I own a lot of 444s and all of them shoot great. They will shoot anything from a 240gn to a 405gn. My favorite is the 265gn and 290gn. If you take advantage of the bullet molds available, you can cast very good performing bullets. The myth about them not shooting cast bullet is perpetrated by those that can't be bothered to learn how to feed them. The Marlin 444 is a much stronger gun then the marlin 45-70 and is much better shooting. One thing it is not........is a stretched 44 magnum cartridge. I usually let the b.s. slide when ignorant people push it on the internet, but when they repeat it several times in one post and say it as if it is a fact and they know what they are talking about, then I feel compelled to speak up. My guns will take anything from mice to Mastodons, Bigfoot to black helicoptors, and do it without dislocating my shoulder. There are only two kind of people. Those that shoot 444s and those that wish they did.

Back when 444’s came out there weren’t near as many available molds as there are now.


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i had a choice between the 444 or the 405 Win in a MGM barrel in the TC Encore. the biggest difference was the brass, i had a hard time finding the 405 Win brass, so i bought the 444 Marlin in a 23" MGM heavy factory barrel. i have i think, around 500-600 pieces of Reminton brass and only 200 pieces are for reloading. the rest is because i am hoarder!!! Starline and Hornady makes the 444 brass, but if you get Hornady make sure you got the long brass, the short 444 is for Hornady's gummy tips. i think i have 300-400 265gr Hornady FN, but i got into cast bullets and i just plain forgot about them. the deer they killed disagree tho. MGM does a 1 in 20" twist and i think that someone on another forum had a custom mold in 450 or 460gr cast bullet and he shot it quite well (also a 1 in 20 twist), 1" to 1 1/2" group at 100 yards (5 shots). it's just too much cast fer me.

i have shot deer using 265gr Hornady FN, 255gr Keith type, 275gr Ranch Dog, 280gr LFN GC, 280gr WFN GC and 300gr SAECO FN GC. the velocity goes from 1600fps thru 2300fps, depends on what bullet. i use alot of Reloder 7. H4198 comes second, while 2400/tuft of Dacron comes third. it can do a 1/2" to 1" group of 5 shots at 100 yards (all bullets). i can find many cast bullets online, including heavy for caliber. someday i'll find a mold that is either 310gr WFN GC or 350gr Ranch Dog and then i'll try heavy for caliber bullets.

just for fun, i tried 250gr penta HP, 200gr and 240gr Hornady XTP with Trail Boss at 50 yards and it was a blast!!! i had 25 or 30 of 200gr XTP's that i loaded with TB. at 50 yards the 25 or 30 XTP's were around 2" group.

the 280gr WFN GC with Reloader 7 that goes 1937fps is my favorite followed by the 300gr SAECO FN GC with 2400/tuft of Dacron that goes 1624fps.

i have a 45-70 in a Handi rifle, but i gave it to oldest son to hunt hogs and deer with. he lives out of state in Fayetteville, NC. i went hunting and killed some deer with the 45-70, but it just didn't feel right.

i know many cast bullet 444 shooters and most of them are Marlin lever action guys with a 1 in 38 twist. they size bullets to .432". it depends on the gun, but they shoot 350gr Ranch Dogs and they don't have problem. they have a problem when the weight is more than 350gr.

i never had a hankering for the 348 Win, but i like the Winchester m71 but in rare 33 WCF.


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The '86 was made in .33 Winchester not the m71. The .348 is a better cartridge than.33 Winchester .


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the '71 wasn't just 348 Win, but the factory did an extremely small amount of the 33 WCF and 45-70.


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Originally Posted by tdoyka
the '71 wasn't just 348 Win, but the factory did an extremely small amount of the 33 WCF and 45-70.

Yes it was, the 71 was only made in 348


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I’ve read elsewhere that there were a very few other cartridges that were chambered in the ‘71. But just because I saw it on the internet…
JorgeI you might be right, as you normally are, but I’m not positive that the ‘71 wasn’t chambered for a very few other other cartridges. I’ve never seen one and I’m not an expert on Winchester’s!


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I read there was one model 71 made in 45-70. Never heard of one made in .33 WCF

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Originally Posted by Bugger
I sold the 444 long ago. I could not find written records, I probably lost it on an old computer that failed, but I found a couple of targets:

444 Marlin, 265 grain Hornady, 45.5 grains IMR4198, 1.05 MOA
444 Marlin, 310 NEI (cast - no gas check), 42 grains RE7, 11.46 MOA

I suppose that Hornady bullet would have worked fine. I wanted a cast bullet shooter and I couldn't get heavy cast bullets to work well. I know I shot a lot of loads through that 444 but these were the only targets I could find.


There’s more knowledge these days and more mould options too. It wasn’t all that long ago that most 44 moulds were primarily designed for 44 mag revolvers and these have different SAAMI specs to 44 mag rifles. Rifles generally have larger groove diameters and slower twist barrels.

The reason you couldn’t achieve decent accuracy with cast in your 444 was likely soft alloy (for the speed), no GC or the bullet diameter was too small. Any of these reasons can results in poor accuracy with cast. I was at my wits end with my B92 in 44 mag trying get it to shoot cast. B92’s in 44mag have rifling that is similar to Marlin microgroove barrels, ie shallow multiple groove rifling and a very generous groove diameter. After I cracked the code it would match or exceed jacketed bullet accuracy.

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Originally Posted by JFE
Originally Posted by Bugger
I sold the 444 long ago. I could not find written records, I probably lost it on an old computer that failed, but I found a couple of targets:

444 Marlin, 265 grain Hornady, 45.5 grains IMR4198, 1.05 MOA
444 Marlin, 310 NEI (cast - no gas check), 42 grains RE7, 11.46 MOA

I suppose that Hornady bullet would have worked fine. I wanted a cast bullet shooter and I couldn't get heavy cast bullets to work well. I know I shot a lot of loads through that 444 but these were the only targets I could find.


There’s more knowledge these days and more mould options too. It wasn’t all that long ago that most 44 moulds were primarily designed for 44 mag revolvers and these have different SAAMI specs to 44 mag rifles. Rifles generally have larger groove diameters and slower twist barrels.

The reason you couldn’t achieve decent accuracy with cast in your 444 was likely soft alloy (for the speed), no GC or the bullet diameter was too small. Any of these reasons can results in poor accuracy with cast. I was at my wits end with my B92 in 44 mag trying get it to shoot cast. B92’s in 44mag have rifling that is similar to Marlin microgroove barrels, ie shallow multiple groove rifling and a very generous groove diameter. After I cracked the code it would match or exceed jacketed bullet accuracy.

I had over 20 years experience with casting bullets at the time. I cast bullets for my brother’s cast bullet manufacturing business. His bullets sold nation wide as advertised in Shotgun News.I know how to cast bullets.
But like you said the molds back then were mainly for 44 magnums. They worked fine for the 444, but I wanted a heavy bullet and settled for the only mold I could find. Those heavy bullets shot extremely well in my 44 Magnums. But I tried casting softer and harder, sizing less, no sizing, different lubes, different powders, and varied the velocity to get that bullet to shoot - no luck. It was as if the bullets were not stabilizing.

But it wasn’t just about cast bullets, but the jacketed bullets then were slim pickens. Yeh the 265 grain Hornady was available, but that was about it. That might have worked OK on big bears, but I didn’t have the confidence that it would. I didn’t want the 444 for white tail deer. That 444 with available bullets would have been great for white tail. The friend that bought it from me planned on using it on white tail though and he was happy with it.


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Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by tdoyka
the '71 wasn't just 348 Win, but the factory did an extremely small amount of the 33 WCF and 45-70.

Yes it was, the 71 was only made in 348


https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/the-shootist-winchester-model-71/99226

"A carbine version was offered with a 20-inch barrel, and an extremely small number of 71s were sold in .33 WCF.


Today, few Model 71 owners take these extremely collectable rifles to the field, and most live on in fine collections."

November 30, 2011
By Richard Venola


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...chester-71-chambered-in-45-70-and-33-wcf


"Russia sucks."
---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B

Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".

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