Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles H335 in .223 Rem?

New thread as to not derail Pharms thread.

There are lots of stories about H335 (or assumed H335 as in the Black Hills ammo) good, bad and ugly. Has me curious as I recently purchased a 8# jug (recent mfg) of it and have been shooting 55gr Varmageddons with it. Yesterday in fact I had my Tikka T3 Varmint out and was testing some loads. What proved to be the most accurate was 24.8gr of H335, 55gr Varmageddon in Rem Brass with CCI 400 primers- ~3000fps. Multiple 1/2" or less 3 shot groups confirmed it shoots very well indeed. Second place with the smallest group of the day but not as many 1/2" groups was 24.1gr with the same other components- ~2925fps (3% rule on powder weight seemed to work here). It was a beautiful evening at about 60 degrees and moments of complete still air (very rare here in So Idaho) and during those periods the rifle & load shot some excellent groups.

I bring this up because the loading manuals are all over the place with H335. Possibly due to what Muledeer mentioned in Pharms thread about having a 'Hot" batch back in the 80's? Hornady has a Max load of 23.2gr. (Old manual way higher), Nosler 25.0gr, Speer 26.0, and on the jug from Hodgdon 25.3gr. all with 55gr bullets. Wow, that is a pretty big range for a small volume cartridge.

So, the real question is my load safe? I have seen no signs of pressure and have shot it in 40degrees to 80degrees. Velocity does increase about 50fps over that range but it stays accurate. I don't like to shoot in weather much out of that range so I don't have a worry at 100degrees. I have burned up around 500 rounds with H335 so far this spring and still have a bunch of it left - like 1800 rounds worth @ ~25gr. I will probably not buy more when this is gone but until then I'd like to shoot it up and not have an experience like Pharm's. Thoughts?

Centershot,

I've run a .223 and a book max charge of 28 grains of H335 under a 40 Vmax in Win brass with a CCI 400 in temps from the 20's to 110+ without knowing better for a long, long time without a single problem. I'm talking thousands upon thousands of rounds down range.

Keep things conservative and you should be fine.

Higgins

It's one of my favorite powders in the 223. I've shot a lot of "temperature sensitive" powders and have never had a problem. Luck? Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes, the blame for other problems ends up being put on the temperature sensitivity of a powder.

H335 works great for lawn fertilizer, or burning ice off the sidewalk in wintertime.

H335 has been my favorite in the 223. I’m not at my computer right now to get loads. I’m thinking that 50 grain Varmint bullets is what I’ve been shooting lately, but 55 grain bullets shot as accurately.

You are using 55gr Nosler bullets. Look at the Nosler load manual. Keep an eye on velocities. They are using a 24" barrel for testing. The max velocity stated in the online data says 3,140 fps. If your Tikka has a 24" barrel, don't exceed those velocities. Also be aware that Tikka's are known for having "slow" barrels. Your max may be more like 3,100 fps. I'd not exceed that. I'd also probably not exceed book max charge weight either, just to be safe. That's just me though. Also, please don't use other bullet manufactures load data if you are using Nosler bullets. That's just asking for trouble. The bearing surface on each brand is different and the velocities you attain are going to be different because of bullet profile and that different bearing surface causing different pressures. If you are loading Nosler, use the Nosler load data. It's free and online, so that makes it a "no brainer". Personally if I were getting 3,000 fps and excellent accuracy with the load you mention, I'd not worry one bit about that, but keep an eye on it when temps get hotter. If you start getting stiff bolt lift or other pressure signs, you'll know to reduce the charge weight. Your groups may also change, or scatter if the pressure goes up too much. Just something to keep an eye on. Only you will know, but that needs to be checked when it's 90+ degrees outside.

And yes, I've burned up a lot of H335 without incident. Mainly with 53gr Vmax bullets at 25.5gr:

load manuals are a reference, NOT a Bible...

I let each particular rifle tell me what they like,,

but then again, in my older age, I never think I need max velocity out of a barrel, to drop a deer or blow up sage rats...

I have loaded a ton of H-335 in .222 and .223 ammo because it has been less expensive (I shoot a LOT) than others since the early 1970's. I was shooting NRA Highpower competition and came across a drum of WC-844 and the velocity was almost identical to H-335 I was using. Since it was a LOT less expensive than the 335, I loaded all my 2-300 yard (55-64 grain swaged) loads with it. When shooting the 600 yard course, I used 4895, later switching to WC-852 (H-380) because it performed better with the 80 grain Sierra. My loads were all worked up in 90 degree temperature because all the Highpower matches were conducted in the summer. My advice is to work up your loads in the warmest temp you usually shoot and the cold will take care of itself. I can't remember having the slightest bit of problems with H-335 in all the years (50) I've shot it. Is it the best? Probably not but, it sure provided a lot of acceptable accurate shooting at the least expense for me. I still use it from .358 Winchester to .223 Remington.

FWIW: I am not interested in hot rodding, I stay near or below max because many of the newer powders perform better in that range. Not that H335 is new by any means. But the problem is how varied the max loads are with H335 in various manuals. I use the info for the bullet manufacturer I'm using as suggested above but also like to look at other manuals to verify. It's kind of hard to know what a load will do in 90degree weather when you purchase a gun over the winter and want to shoot it before summer. As it warms up I'll keep an eye on velocity and other pressure signs but you have to start somewhere.

You sure do, and no one wants to wait for a few months to shoot a new rifle. Just don't do like my buddy does and load 500 unknown rounds, and then find out they are too hot in the summer time. Load what works for now, then when it gets warmer adjust the load as needed.

What era are all those manuals? As I explained in another post, H335 has varied considerably in performance, due to Hodgdon running out of the original powder around 30 years ago, and having it made by another company. The first batch was a LOT hotter than the original powder--and the testing of the original powder was mostly done with copper-crusher pressure equipment, rather than the electronic-transducer equipment that's now pretty much standard. All of which is why I tend to trust recent data far more than older data: Both the powder and the testing procedure tend to have changed.

This the most accurate load in my 78 (bought new when they came out) and has been on many PD - shoots lots of bullets down the barrel:

223 Remington, Sport 78, 55 Nosler BT, 7 ½ BR, 26 grains H335, 0.47 MOA

This is the second most accurate load I've tried so far on my model 7:
223 Remington Seven, 55 grain Rem HP, WSR, 26.5 grains H335, 0.50 MOA

The model seven liked this load a little better:
223 Remington Seven, 40 grain Nosler BT, 7 ½ BR, 22.3 grains TAC, 0.44 MOA

I've been told TAC is temperature insensitive, but 2230 behaved better for me when "cooking", despite not being promoted at all in that regard. No idea at lower temps since I've never used either with low temps in mind.

I think most would be better served with a LEE dipper over scales. Volumetric charges, at least for me, never get out of hand with the same numbered powders.
Redding doesn't put all those hashes on micrometers for nothing...

But scales will bust you every now and then.

I've not had problems with PD shooting and temperature issues. The answer for me, may be that I load for accuracy and that isn't often the hottest load in the books.

I've hear bad things about H335, dirty seems to come up sometimes. I don't don't know about that, one way or another.

I think its human nature to find fault with everything under the sun except themselves and a better mousetrap is seemingly always just that.

Noted your powder variance in original post, and use the most current data from Nosler on line. But, even the latest current on-line datas vary nearly 3gr in a 25gr cartridge.

My Old Speer Manual No. 10 goes all the way to 27.0gr w/ 55gr bullets, current on-line data has backed off to 26.0gr but that is still a very large (12%) jump over the current Hornady max of 23.2gr. (old Hornady Manual 3rd Edition had 26.0gr as max.) Nosler has stayed consistent @ 25.0gr max. (oldest manual is No. 3 ~30 years old, newest on-line).

Kind of makes me question what the quality control standard is? or was?

From my loading of 308 over the years I'm quite sure that Nosler carried old data forward from one print manual to the next. So maybe 223 as well.

We went gopher shooting and when the temp got above freezing we had to quit. Had some of that H335 stuff damn near knock the barrel clear off the action. I won’t be using any of that any more.

I started using H335 when it was sold as surplus powder shipped in a paper gas with a plastic liner. This would have been in the late 60's.I loaded .308 and 7.65 Argentine Mauser with it.The only instructions was to use 3031 data.

Sometime after 1976-78 it was my go to powder for .223 and.243 for prairie dogs and I burned up a lot of it then.

Then the AR craze hit and everyone started using it for that.

I use Varget for 69 gr bullet loads, but for 52-53 gr sierra MK. I use 25-25.5 grains.

Paper gas? 😳