Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Tell me about the .222Rem....

A local shop has a nice lightly used Howa in .222Rem. I think it could be picked up reasonably and has peaked my interest. I have heard how the .222 was the accuracy standard back in the day. Is that still so? Cartridge looks like it has a really long neck - is that a good or bad thing. What is your overall opinion of the .222?

I have owned several .223's (Tikka T3 Varmint currently) and have stuff to reload them. It looks like the .222 will use many of the same components so with a set of dies and some brass I could be up and shooting.

at one time set bench rest records. still capable of with as good of accuracy. very low recoil. H4198 with 50 grain nozzle ballistic tips as my favorite thing to stuff them with.. not quite as much umpph for bullet weight as a 223 but getting close. much more umphh than a 22 hornet with same....

something else I would add that I find interesting may just be me and my ears or my examples but the 222 seems a lot quieter than 223.

The first center fire I shot was dad’s 722 222 Remington. I was probably 5 years old at the time. I have had quite a few 223’s and only a couple 222’s. I really like the 222’s. I like their long neck better than the 223’s short neck. The 223 is loaded a little hotter than the 222.
I have enough brass for both cartridges to last my life time. So brass isn’t an issue for me. But 223 brass is easier to find. Quite a while back I made 222 brass out of 223 brass. The neck on my 222 was tight, so I had to turn the neck on the converted brass.
I believe I would rather have a 222 if I had to choose between the two if brass and ammo wasn’t an issue.

Very accurate, you can push a 40gr v max or 40nbt at 3400+ that will do most varmints...mb

Does a 40gr bullet base make it to the bottom of the case neck? - What is the point of the long case neck? Have always 'assumed' that the base of the bullet at or below the shoulder/case neck junction was preferred.

A 40 gr bullet base will be well above the shoulder.

What lead to that assumption?

If there's any preference in that matter, it's usually the opposite.

There are good reasons for a long neck. First one I can think of is less damage to the throat with a long neck.
Second is the bullet can be seated out further as the throat is worn.
Third is there is more room for adjusting the seating depth for maximizing accuracy.
Fourth (probably not a concern here) if you’re shooting cast bullets the neck can cover the grooves better.
There’s probably other things I can’t think of off-hand. But I don’t see any downside to a long neck.
I believe the reason many cartridges have short neck is to maximize powder capacity - which I suppose could be a ‘down side’.

The .222 is my favorite varmint cartridge for a lot of reasons. You would not regret trying that HOWA.

It was described to me as "well mannered". After owning one for a long time, I understand what was being described.

With mathman all the way on that

I agree

Not exactly sure where that 'assumption' came from? Maybe the donut in the case neck thing? You sure don't see any 'new' cartridges designed with long case necks.

They are asking $419 for the Howa .222Rem. I think if it sits for a month I can get it for substantially less. There is not a box of .222Rem ammo for sale in the 50K city that I live in. Darn little on line. Even brass is hard to come by. Could be the achilles heal of the .222Rem.

PPU 222 brass isn't too hard to come by. It's basically all I've shot out of mine since I got the rifle a few years ago, and it's been fine so far. Graf has it in stock more often than not.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/74480

Most accurate rifle I ever owned was a 788 Rem in 222 Rem. Something I noticed right away was that I could fire it and watch the bullet hit through the scope, pretty much zero recoil. Found the most accurate bullet with it was any 50 to 52 gr bullet. Didn't like 55gr bullet's, no big loss. As for the long neck, I haven't a clue what it was supposed to do. For load depth I seated the bullet's one cal depth. Read about it, tryed it and it worked fine.

I think that’s due to the craze of wanting maximum velocity in the smallest cases.
I own plenty of short neck cartridge rifles, but I prefer the longer necks of the Classic cartridges.

Avoiding the donut is exactly why you'd prefer the base of the bullet above the shoulder/neck junction.

only if you already have the brass

I consider the duce the "22lr" of varmint cartridges. Just load it for accuracy, not to see what kind of fps you can get, and it'll likely be your most accurate gun. So much fun to shoot a gun you know will drop a bullet into the spot you tell it to.

I have plenty of brass. I put some up for sale for the price of postage in classifieds. They were mostly made from military 223 brass. I didn’t form it but it was in a friend’s effects.

Centershot, is it possible this 222 you are looking at is a Smith&Wesson Model 1500?

I've necked down range pick up 223 brass for a friend, before he passed away, that had a 222...

I bought an RCBS 222 die set, and it had no issues necking down...the dies set was one of those RGB ( Really Great Buy ) set they sold... I think the set was $10 or $12 when I bought it...

I never needed a 222 tho.... I just load the 223, with 222 load data and rock on... doesn't seem to make a difference...

I've had up to 5 222's and would take another any day over a 223; data is mild for the 222 but it's basically 100 fps less than a 223 if apples to apples and in the field that means absolutely nothing.

The 223 was and is a way to make the Stoner design work within its original confines as a military round under military trial specifications. The confines should have been changed rather than the cartridge itself in the long run. Load a 222 to 62,000 psi and its basically a standard 223 with like bullet weights. Obviously the 5.56 is loaded to this pressure (again) after the specs on the 223 needed upped for the military.

223 brass is probably the most plentiful along with the 7.62x39 on the planet, but I would imagine 222 brass is still produced by every North American and European entity including Australia, so I wouldn't make 222's out of 223's.

There's some very good 222 brass still made and available, so I would find it before going the reform route. Its simply second rate and not necessary, unless all you can find are new Remingtons, which suck in 222.

I've had lotsa Deuces,none of which were warm or fuzzy. Perhaps with the bullets and glass of The Day,it was "AWESOME!" upon inception in 1950...though I'm thinking not. Hint.

As mechanics and logistics go,the 223 simply has a multitude of inherent advantages. As the beat goes on,they simply propogate,to include OEM twist rates,COAL and brass quality. Hint.

I've yet to see an Accuracy or Precision advantage in the Deuce and due the increase in ass(less going crazy),the 223 slips conditions better at like pressure. Hint.

The Deuce is one of those chamberings,in which the less you have "done" and the less you "know",the "better" it is,which seemingly appeals to the slowest of "learners". Neck length "woes" are funnier than fhuqk too,in comparison to the Deuce and 223. Full Auto 223's ain't fretting "setback",despite much more projectile mass and a less than Velvet Glove trip of fodder traveling up/into feed ramps. Hint.

In fairness however,they tend to make Skookum 223 Donors. Hint.




For a 7" RPM 223 and 88's. Hint.







'Course,none of you Drooling Dumbfhuqks have ever seen anything good. Pardon my simply shooting it all and then some. Hint.

Bless your hearts.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

I enjoyed the pic of the AR magazines and 223 Krunchentickers with 88 ELDM's chasing the lands.

After a 2 year back order I just got a message from Starline Brass they will be doing a run of .222 brass in the next week or so. I have 250 inbound.

Sweetie,

It is mechanically IMPOSSIBLE,to gun 88's ala 223 Krunchenticker. Hint.

Now I happen to hear GOOD things about whistling 88's ala AICS DBM,by way of 223 turnbolt as plainly illustrated above. Hint.

Also no big deal to shim slide OEM Big Green magboxes,to Smooch same. Hint.







Pardon my simply shooting it all and then some,as you Google Gals fumble aloud. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

It's a Howa 1500 Mini action.

I’ve played around with a few 222 varmint rifles. A sako bull barrel, a 700 varmint special and a Ruger #1. While they all shoot very well I never could see that they shot any more accurately than the same rifles in 223. I have a soft spot for “the deuce” and think it’s a great little round. Ammo and brass will be harder to find than 223 and it will be a bit slower velocity wise but if you like the little rifle buy it and enjoy it.

Kiss,find pressure and rock on. Not much to it. Hint.

This 223 8" CTR does fine with Lapooey Virgins,400's,Lever' and 2.520" 75 ELD Smooches. CTR's are the only mags Teeker gets close to right and their COAL is enough(2.600"),to extoll the full virtues of their RPM and throat geometry. AR mag pictured for the Window Lickers. Hint.











Just sayin'.

Hint................

I own a .223Rem (Tikka Varmint) not asking about .223Rem........

I'm not the one asking questions. Hint.

Do not forget,that Imitation is THE most Sincere form of Flattery,as you Whine aloud. Try listening. Hint.

The Teeker Varmints suck HEAVY ass,due their Dog Schit magazine(s). Hint.

Dump an 8" Teeker 223 in a CTR handle and you are connecting dots by default. Hint.







Or simply MT AICS DBM same,to bypass Teeker inherent Goat Fhuqktitude. Default AM 5-rounders and retain a few MDT 10's. Hint.






You are doing fhuqking GREAT! Please "tell" me "more". Hint.

Pardon my being afforded the luxuries,of not being forced to guess,as you guess aloud. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

After doing most of my varmint shooting with a .221 Fireball for 30+ years, I bumped up power to the .222 in an Anschutz rifle. Of course I used a 223 along the way too. This is my second .222 and it is just about perfect in every way for what I do.

I made the comment about the Stoner action being too short and the 223 cartridge not being a fix.

The pics of modified 223 bolt guns (again) verifies it. Of course you could do the same with a shorter case with even more latitude in the shorter actions and mags.

There's roughly 100 feet difference in a whatever twisted 223 versus a 222. That's it.

But the 223 is awesome.... in a 308 action.

Just remember the 3 inch [bleep] doesn't fit in 2.5 stuff.

You Drooling Dumbfhuqks,never disappoint,by simply doing your best. CLUELESS Google Gals,are a fhuqking hoot...you "lucky" kchunts. Hint. Congratulations?!?

The Krunchenticker was first chambered in Deuce. Case capacity is case capacity,to the perpetual chagrin of those who don't actually shoot. Hint.



I'd submit that Teekers are an '06 length action. Though if only in "fairness",I also suffer a Winchester K-Hornet on a like lengthed receiver. Hint.



Now as 308 length receivers go,I don't shoot anything shorter than 22LR. Hint.



As 3" receivers go,I only shoot them in .473" and .532". Hint.





Coming full circle to Mini receivers,I only have a few. Hint.



Pardon my simply shooting it all and then some,as you CLUELESS Kchunts use your Imaginations to Pretend aloud. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

Give me the .222 any day over the .223. I'd rather the inherent accuracy (you can run Lapua cases), proper fit in most extra-short actions, lower recoil, longer barrel life and the long neck than an extra 100 feet per second. If you need more velocity than the .222, just set the barrel back, open up the bolt face to .420 and run the 77's at 3000 fps via a .22-6.8 SPC - good feeding and you don't lose too much magazine capacity (unlike the fatter, poor-feeding .22PPC/.22Grendel cases).

SniffleKchunt,

You are DREAMING aloud and have never seen,let alone shot any of it...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Lapooey just "happens" to make 223,Grendel and 7.62x39 brass. You are in wellll beyond your HILARIOUS "means","abilities" and "comprehension". Hint.



You are a MAGNIFICENT Lying Piece Of Fhuqking CLUELESS Schit. Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even YOU can "afford" to "contribute". Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............

Obviously, Lapua makes .222, .223. Grendel and 7.62 x 39. The point being is that if you run a .222, you can still get high quality brass for it.

SniffleKchunt,

You've never seen or shot ANY of it...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Now exactly which Deuce did you "setback" to 224 SPC and fling 77's out of at 3000fps,besides the Imaginary Pretend one you've concocted via your crossed-eyes and pointy head Brokedick DELUSIONS? Hint.



Hell...I'm still whistlin' Lapooey 7mm RemMag. Google as you must and nod your pencil neck,like you "understand". Hint.

You are a MAGNIFICENT Lying Piece Of Fhuqking CLUELESS Schit. Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even YOU can "afford" to "contribute". Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

You can buy a Howa mini in .223, set it back, open the bolt face to .420, swap out the bottom metal and run 77's at 2.45" length in a 21.75" barrel.

SniffleKchunt,

You are Pretending aloud,about schit you've never seen,done or shot...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

At least you can "afford" to read my EVERY word and gawk the Splendid Pixels,to "live" vicariously through my wares! Hint.



You went from a Deuce that don't exist,to DREAMING about a 223 wayyyy beyond your means,pretty quickly. Hint.



You are a MAGNIFICENT Lying Piece Of Fhuqking CLUELESS Schit. Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even YOU can "afford" to "contribute". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

[/color]Yeah, the guy could be short and bald headed, living in a Shack in ButtFudk AK, being sloshed all the time, and waking up daily in the kitchen floor face down in the dog's dish or water dish, stark naked below the waist, and dreaming about the rest of the world all being " a MAGNIFICENT Lying Piece Of Fhuqking CLUELESS Schitts ".. Not a classy guy like himself...

Yeah, the rest of us are "[color:#990000]Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............." at the half naked gnome with a hangover.

ain't easy being Schtick, is it Stumpy.... did Hutch take a piss on your head again? Gotta love that dog!

Shefire,

You "get" to fixate me 24/7 and relish your Homo Erotic Fantasies...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Perhaps quantify how many times a day you think about me and the durations of same,as you "escape" being you. Hint.

Bless your heart,you Brokedick.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!............

Little Stick, how about posting some of those photos of you all dressed up with the lippy, high heels, wig and nice dress?

SniffleKchunt,

You and Shefire can duel,to sort out who thinks about me the most...you "lucky" kchunts. Hint. Congratulations?!?

I'll feign my GREAT "surprise",that the only thing you gals can offer in the first hand are your Homoerotic Fantasies. Hint.

Bless your hearts.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!............

A shame that Lil'Dick Fhuqked up another thread, the 222 Rem is a great cartridge

Stumpy,

only time you cross my mind, is when I am busy wiping my ass on the toilet... that is a moment, that not much is really on my mind except wiping my ass... but with it concerning CRAP, I can see the correlation with my thoughts and opinions of your usual posts...

The rest of us out here are laughing right back at ya Stumpy...

We ALL know it ain't easy being Schtick...

on the personal end, I heard that Hutch ran off and looked for a new home, so he wouldn't have an owner that caused him so much embarrassment... any truth to that rumor?

if so, now you don't have to wake up at noon on a daily basis with your face, down in his dog dish, passed out drunk with a hangover, wondering who pissed all over the back of your head...

Seafire: Good one!
I have actually come to feel sorry for "small twig" - his pathetic and offensive personality is simply a sign of his small man syndrome and lack of self worth/esteem.
I know - I dealt with demented and angry people professionally for 29 years - psychiatric help is the only possible solution for them and then that only works half the time - sad.
I prefer to ignore his constant profane diatribes and simply read his postings to see if he has "matured" any - sadly, as of now he (it?) hasn't.
You are more patient with this human [bleep] than I.
Keep up the good work - maybe it will have a positive effect on the little cretin in the future?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have had a few 223s, a Speedy Gonzales Shilen/700 Fireball, and a BDL 222, 788 and 600 all in deuce.

IME, the deuce and FB shot circles around MY 223s, the TC Contender rifle was 1/2 moa, but the 700 VLS was not as solid, not bad, but not tight like my 222s or FB. A Howa 223 shot 5/8s, but just never gave me the warm and fuzzy's. No experience with a custom or T3 in a 223, though I would expect with good brass and loads, they will do fine.

I really enjoyed the mild mannered FB, but ejection/extraction off the former 223 700 donor was not positive/reliable, so for ME, my best shooting with my wares was with the 222s. I did some good field work with that VLS once I chopped it from 26 to 22 or 22.5 whichever it was,handled much better, but again the accuracy was not as solid for me, as the 222s I had...that BDL was NIB and I dropped it in an HS sporter stock, shot 3/8" just like my SG&Y FB....that was p/up used and was in a factory ADL stock.....it was a shooter.

No flies on the 222 for modest ranges - I feel it's best using 40s on varmints, they will fly 3700-3800, but 50-55s tops for what I would use a deuce on.......I will refrain from telling you how far a deer dropped to a 52 from a deuce, from a guy I was shooting with years back......it would shock folks. I dote on the 6BR if needing more range or bigger game.......and I suspect the 6CM would impress

Thanks 65BR. Appreciate your helpful experiences without a bunch of condescending, psudo swearing, childish babbling nonsense.

I agree about the 40 grain bullets. I switched to Hornady 40 gr. VMaxes some years back, but I think pretty much any 40 grainer would do.

Centershot, you are welcome Sir. Good shooting

.222, .223, 22-250. They all work. It's ok to own more than one varmint rifle.

Oh brother, what a set of varminters...

FB2 - that an Annie and Krico on top? All look nice.

Yes, "Annie" is .222, Krico is .223, Sako 22/250

Wringing out a new to me 222 Mag

Heavy p/dog gun

53 gr V Max........

Kills dogs a far as the eye can see

Next barrel on my .222 will probably be a 10 twist to handle the 53 VMax and 53 TSX.

Right on! 222 is the daddy of the 223, 221,17rem,222mag Just to name a few. My lil Remington 700 Varmint special shoots like no other! 222 is a great lil cartridge. People don't like it, that's fine, they don't know what their missing.

Not only is .222 a great lil cartridge, but so is .20-222 and .17-222. Just have one supply of .222 brass and make 3 varmint rifles in 3 calibers...if you want to have a bit of fun.

I've had this lovely little 222 for a long time. It will always have a place in the safe. It began life as a Zastava barrel and action, but came with a stock that could only be described as ugly as a hat full of assho.., The stock was tossed and replaced by and American Black walnut one. IT shoots 40gn Varmageddons at 3,600 and kills foxes and feral dogs deader than charity

Well the Howa .222Rem described in the OP now resides in my safe. A call to Midway this morning and I have 200 Starline Brass cases and 500 Speer 50gr TNT HP's on the way. Hopefully by next weekend I'll be able to run a few rounds through it.

wonderful cartridge.
I have 3 also a 222 mag, 223 (3) 220 Swift (2) and a 22 HP.
accurate w/no recoil.

The 6mm-222 and 25-222 are fun 222 progeny. I have both on lefty mini Mausers.

Currently running two

222 mag.......20-222

Both run real well on H322

you can down size 223 to 222 real easily. I've necked 223 down to 222 for some friends over the years, and loaded it for them, and it worked just fine.. only need the 222 Die set.

Good choice on the TNTs. I pick those up in the thousand round cannister, 3 or 4 of them at a time. Same with the 52 HP Speer, and the 55 SP. Pretty cheap when you get the birthday notification from Midway.

I have sized down a few .223's to .222 but have not got them loaded yet. Will try to get out this weekend for a little shooting. Mostly don't want to confuse the head stamps and possibly shoot one in my .223 - so ordering some Starline was an easy decision.

So how does the brass turn out when making .222 from .223 as I haven't done it yet? Do the resulting cases last a lot of firings without the necks splitting, and is the neck thickness right etc?

You are correct.....Starline ready to go brass at $.040 each is a bargain

Correct headstamp so the newbee or rookie shooter has no confusion

Free fast shipping & no tax (shhhh)

https://www.starlinebrass.com/222-remington

Its called Annealing it...

If your rifle won't chamber them, due to neck thickness, then neck turn them.

Rifles I've done it in, have chambered in the rifles my buddies had.

or build 'no turn neck' barrels

P/dogs don't care

I owned a BSA CF2 with a heavy barrel many years ago in .222 and it was and still is the most accurate rifle I have ever shot. My load was 52gr Sierra over BL-C (2).

The Deuce is the shizz.

Wouldn't a 223 be the same, just loaded with 222 load data?

John, it would indeed.


But its like loading down a 7mm Mag to 7x57 specs.

It will NEVER be a 7x57...theres a definite 'panache' factor involved.

More than once a younger member of our hunting club has come up to me which I’m testing some loads with one of my 222s and asked what I was shooting. When I answered “222 Remington” they asked, “what is THAT?”

Then when I explained that their AR in 5.56 evolved from it, it was a lightbulb moment. 😁

In a similar situation I get quizzical looks when asked about a short action Rem 700 I'm shooting and I say it's a 250 or 300 Savage.

I had a 222 back when I was 14. Massacred the prairie dogs in Montana, utterly amazing compared to my other Pdog rifle a 22. It and the 30-30 were the first rifles I loaded for. In fact I still use the same dies to load 223 shells today. They came from Herters.

I’m preparing for a PD shoot. My 222 is a 722 Remington that’s been converted to 700 BDL configuration. I was looking over old notes and saw that my favorite load shoots ~ .3 MOA. I saw on other notes that same load shot almost 1.75 MOA. The difference:
The accurate groups were shot in new Nosler brass. The large groups were shot with 1950’s vintage Remington brass that looked liked they had been shot many times. I suspect the old brass necks were quite brittle, they had never been annealed.
I’ll be annealing brass before I load.

Well I'm in the Panache school of thought...

I refer to my several 7x57s... as 7mm Mauser...

I refer to my 7mm Rem Mag as a 7mm Mauser wannabe...wishin don't make it so.

i owned a Savage m340 in the Triple Deuce. 50gr Hornady SP and H322 was golden. i bought this rifle used, so i don't know the number of rounds it has fired, but my count was 6500-7000 rounds till the barrel was fried. i was young and dumb at the time, so i sold it and bought a new Remington m700 in 223 Remington. big mistake!!! i should bought have bought the Savage a Douglas barrel in 222 Remington and go from there with a smile upon my face. but noooooooo, i sold her for a piece of garbage. dumbass!!! i wish i still had her.........

If you load a .223 with .222 load data, if won't give .222 performance. The .223 case is bigger and it needs more powder to give the same pressure and velocity. Also, many of the really nice mini-actions such as the CZ 527 and Sako L461 fit the .222 with plastic tipped bullets much better than the .223 with same. If you make .222 cases out of .223 brass, won't there be two brass thicknesses in the neck as part of the shoulder of the .223 case will form the lower part of the .222 neck?

Load it with cornflakes and it will shoot tinny little holes

On making 222s from 223 brass, it all depends on the brass used. I did some from lc brass and had lots of problems with wrinkled brass and had to anneal it down into the shoulder but didn't have to deal the necks. I am just making some from Norma 5.56 bràss and they form beautiful without annealing but the necks get very thick and need to be reamed.

Most of my 222 brass is Rem, Win, Starline and Lapua for hunting and target loads but I do load a bunch of plinking, small game and bobcat/fox loads with light loads and use the reformed 223/5.56 brass for them.