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Does anyone have a case drawing for the 7 Raptor? It's an Arne Brennan creation, of 6.5 Grendel fame, amongst many other Raptor rounds. Similar to the 277 Wolverine & the 7.62x40WT. Actually, anyone with any experience at all w/ this cartridge chiming in would be appreciated. I'm a rifle looney obsessed w/ maximizing AR15 near & medium range performance w/ just a barrel change. I initially posted this in the wildcat forum but I think it should be here instead. Thanks! Mark & Belle

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I shot a 7mm TCU, which is an improved 7mm on a 223 case I a 10” Contender for pistol silhouette in the 70’s until ‘85.
Even out of the 10” barrel I’d consider that an adequate whitetail cartridge. That was a popular cartridge/pistol combination then. I have not shot pistol silhouette since then.


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Bugger,
What were some of your favorite loads for the TCU, especially any in the 100-140gr range?
Thanks for the reply! Mark and Belle

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Not Bugger, but I had a M600 222 rebored and rechambered to 7mmTCU. It turned out to be a shooter! My 2 loads are a 115 gr Speer HP and a 120 gr spire point, both with 29 gr of WC846 (BLC2). It is a remarkable little round.

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Originally Posted by MarknMaggie
Does anyone have a case drawing for the 7 Raptor? It's an Arne Brennan creation, of 6.5 Grendel fame, amongst many other Raptor rounds. Similar to the 277 Wolverine & the 7.62x40WT. Actually, anyone with any experience at all w/ this cartridge chiming in would be appreciated. I'm a rifle looney obsessed w/ maximizing AR15 near & medium range performance w/ just a barrel change. I initially posted this in the wildcat forum but I think it should be here instead. Thanks! Mark & Belle
The only other 2 rounds I know similar to this is the 6x45 and the 25 Sharps. How does the 7mm Raptor stack up against these 2 ??

kwg


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I’m not Bugger either but I shoot a 20” 7TCU in a 700 quite a bit. 110s, 115s, and 120s over RL7. Saw decent accuracy with H4198 but low speeds. Switched to RL7 and got great accuracy and more velocity, haven’t used anything else since. There isn’t a deer on the planet I wouldn’t shoot with a 120 Ballistic Tip. The Speer TNT and Hornady HPs also perform very well on game at the speeds attainable with the little case.

Main issue is it’s too long to fit in an AR mag. Much better suited to a bolt rifle or Contender.

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KWG- The pros for the 6x45 and 25-45 is that they two of the easiest wildcat cartridges to form cases for. The cons are you can't use very long bullets and still fit in an AR magazine. Great in bolt rifles, though where the magazine is longer than 2.260". Longer bullets will end up with the ojive seatted deeper than the case mouth. I think the heaviest flat based SP Spitzer which fit in the 25-45 is the 87gr Speer. In the 6x45 it may be a 80 or 85gr SP Spitzer. If you want better long range performance with a higher BC bullet, you need to use a shorter case, like a 222 (or a 221 if you want to use a .30 cal 220gr projectile, ie 300BO). Using heavier weight bullets between 6mm and 7mm is preferred, between 90gr to 135gr. But the 223 case will be too long and must be shortened. Look up the 300Ham'r on the Wilson Combat website and you'll see a very neat cartridge designed from the 223 specifically for the AR shooting lighter. 30 cal bullets for short to medium range boar hunting. To shoot a higher BC bullet in the .264, 277, or .284 sizes you need to shorten the 300Ham'r case somewhat to approximately 222Rem size. That's what the 7mm Raptor is. A little more shorter case and you have the 277 Wolverine, another very efficient cartridge which has some industry support. -Mark & Belle

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Kid- As I explained to KWG above and you discussed, the 7mmTCU is too long for AR magazines but is still a great cartridge. Imagine a 30TCU but shortened just enough to fit an AR 300BO magazine. That's Wilson Combat's 300 Ham'r. The 7mm Raptor is a little shorter still, being based on the 222Rem, optimized for 120-140g bullets. Being a smaller case it won't equal the 7mmTCU but still gives the AR user a potent round with a good combination of down range energy and flatter trajectory for up to deer size game. I did find a 7mm-222 40°Improved dies listing available at CH4D, essentially identical to the 7Raptor. X-calibre barrels list the 7Raptor chambering for its AR barrels. Not much industry support compared to the SAAMI spec'd 300Ham'r or the 277 Wolverine semi-wildcat. -Mark&Belle

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After having shot several boxcar loads of deer and pigs with the 7TCU, 222 Mag, and the plain old 223 I’d say that unless your area has caliber restrictions or your barrel is slow twisted that the 223 with tipped 75s or 77s is the way to go. Unless you just like fiddling with loading and case forming and stuff, which is fine too.

In the AR15 an 18” 223 shooting the 77TMK is easy and cheap to feed and kills incredibly well. I can’t tell enough difference on pigs to say which is any better between it and the 7. But it easy to feed with readily available bullets, dies, and load data. It penetrates as well or better than 110-115-120gr 7mm bullets of conventional construction and leaves a nice wide wound channel.

In the end “deer sized” animals don’t take much killing. Pigs aren’t armor plated. And “new” calibers and cartridges are largely like the old saw about fishing lures being designed to catch fishermen.

Do whatever floats your boat because just about anything will work if a guy can shoot and just about anything will result in a rodeo if he can’t. Probably none of us are doing this for survival and it’s all fun to fool with or we’d all be using 30/30s and green box ammo.

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Kid- What is your 77TMK load? The BC is somewhat over .4, too, I believe. A little over 1000 ft-lb at the muzzle? They actually expand like a big game bullet? I would think the 300 Ham'r with 1800 ft-lb of ME with a Sierra 125gr Prohunter would be a better game stopper with a bigger wound cavity inside of 150-200 yd, though. Happy Hunting! Mark & Belle

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Kid, have you used the 75 AMAX/ELDM on deer?


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Originally Posted by MarknMaggie
Kid- What is your 77TMK load? The BC is somewhat over .4, too, I believe. A little over 1000 ft-lb at the muzzle? They actually expand like a big game bullet? I would think the 300 Ham'r with 1800 ft-lb of ME with a Sierra 125gr Prohunter would be a better game stopper with a bigger wound cavity inside of 150-200 yd, though. Happy Hunting! Mark & Belle
25gr of Hodgdon Leverlution. CCI 41. They behave very much like a big game bullet at 223 speeds. A friend loaded them in a 22 Creed and was less than impressed because they’d come apart at the higher speeds. But out of a 223 I have broken shoulders, necks, and spines on deer plus pelvic bones and hips on fleeing pigs. On chest shot deer they will leave a 2” or larger wound channel. My wife shot a buck at a hard quartered angle with one and it hit the shoulder joint and destroyed it, traversed the chest putting a 2” hole through one lung and the liver before exiting the flank. It reentered the ham and penetrated to the hide on the rump where I found it, nicely mushroomed and looking like a textbook “hunting” bullet. I have shot hundreds of pigs big and small with the load with no troubles getting penetration or killing them with no drama, they generally exit on everything up to 200lb unless you’re shooting them up the rear or head on.

I find the 7TCU with 110-115-120s at 2600fps to kill no better or worse. I’ve flopped a bunch of pigs with it too.

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Originally Posted by Jeff_O
Kid, have you used the 75 AMAX/ELDM on deer?
No. I don’t mess with perfection when I find it.

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Originally Posted by MarknMaggie
KWG- The pros for the 6x45 and 25-45 is that they two of the easiest wildcat cartridges to form cases for. The cons are you can't use very long bullets and still fit in an AR magazine. Great in bolt rifles, though where the magazine is longer than 2.260". Longer bullets will end up with the ojive seatted deeper than the case mouth. I think the heaviest flat based SP Spitzer which fit in the 25-45 is the 87gr Speer. In the 6x45 it may be a 80 or 85gr SP Spitzer. If you want better long range performance with a higher BC bullet, you need to use a shorter case, like a 222 (or a 221 if you want to use a .30 cal 220gr projectile, ie 300BO). Using heavier weight bullets between 6mm and 7mm is preferred, between 90gr to 135gr. But the 223 case will be too long and must be shortened. Look up the 300Ham'r on the Wilson Combat website and you'll see a very neat cartridge designed from the 223 specifically for the AR shooting lighter. 30 cal bullets for short to medium range boar hunting. To shoot a higher BC bullet in the .264, 277, or .284 sizes you need to shorten the 300Ham'r case somewhat to approximately 222Rem size. That's what the 7mm Raptor is. A little more shorter case and you have the 277 Wolverine, another very efficient cartridge which has some industry support. -Mark & Belle
Thanks for the reply Mark. I know that some of the other shooters on this forum have used the 6x45 and tend to like the results. I don't know of any 25 Sharps shooters but I always that that would be a good deer caliber for those States that allow it.

kwg


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Originally Posted by TheKid
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
Kid, have you used the 75 AMAX/ELDM on deer?
No. I don’t mess with perfection when I find it.

Roger. Thanks! 👍


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