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Originally Posted by Exchipy
Even a justified self-defense shooter remains legally responsible for each and every round fired, no matter in whatever or whoever each bullet may eventually stop.
This is just plainly in error. One must demonstrate negligence to be deemed civilly liable, which is a disregard for a duty towards specific persons. Being pressed by circumstances to shoot in self defense does not constitute negligence, thus a good shoot (absent recklessness) does not trigger civil liability according to the laws of most states.

As to the specific case under discussion, I don't think this guy's actions constitute recklessness, since his gun was pointing at the perps (and no one else) when he said he sometimes had his eyes closed upon pulling the trigger. Furthermore, there were no third parties amongst the perps at the time to which a duty of care was owed by the defensive shooter.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Exchipy
Even a justified self-defense shooter remains legally responsible for each and every round fired, no matter in whatever or whoever each bullet may eventually stop.
This is just plainly in error. One must demonstrate negligence to be deemed civilly liable, which is a disregard for a duty towards specific persons. Being pressed by circumstances to shoot in self defense does not constitute negligence, thus a good shoot (absent recklessness) does not trigger civil liability according to the laws of most states.

I don't think this guy's actions constitute recklessness, since his gun was pointing at the perps (and no one else) when he said he sometimes had his eyes closed upon pulling the trigger. Furthermore, there were no third parties amongst the perps at the time to which a duty of care was owed by the defensive shooter.
I must stand by my statement about a justified self-defense shooter remaining legally responsible for each and every bullet he lets fly, no matter what. Here’s why:

If negligence theory were the only consideration, you would have been absolutely correct, right up until you chose to use the word “recklessness.” Proof of simple negligence (an oops) and resulting damages are all that are required in order to recover under a negligence cause of action. Gross negligence is not required, but it can certainly up the ante to maybe include punitive damages too.

However, negligence isn’t the only available cause of action; there is also strict liability in tort. Strict liability attaches to activities recognized as being inherently dangerous, such as blasting to take down buildings, located very close to other buildings, for new construction. Shooting is also recognized as an inherently dangerous activity, such that anyone who gets shot, who was not supposed to get shot, is entitled to recover damages from the shooter, whether or not actual negligence can be proved. This applies to stuff as well as to people.

There is yet another legal theory of liability which is founded in the law of equity. Where damage occurs and neither person is in any way legally negligent, the person is responsible for causing it pays for it. If both persons played a role in causing it, one had better have been even a little bit negligent or neither pays. It’s fundamental fairness in action. I had hinted at this briefly in response to an earlier comment of yours, though I didn’t i ske any mention of the legal theory.

All of that is why I said shooting in self-defense carries with it huge, almost crippling responsibility. The shooter must absolutely do it right, or be extremely lucky. Sounds like our Tennessee guy had been pretty lucky, maybe just owing for patching a few holes, until he shot off his big mouth to the cops - a pretty dumb move which cost him.


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Incorrect.

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No wonder police need protection from lawsuits. They can’t fugging shoot, say chipy taught them.


It began with two drivers reporting to police that Johnson was driving erratically on Interstate 70. Johnson subsequently called police and in slurred tones, said that she was armed with an Ak-47 and intended to kill as many police as possible. “I want to kill cops,” said Johnson on the taped call. “I’m gonna kill all the cops I can. I have a gun, have a machete, have an AK-47.”

Arapahoe County deputies and the Colorado State Patrol caught up with Johnson’s Ford Focus on I-70 near Agate at about 11:30 pm. On March 3rd. They conducted a high-risk stop, keeping their distance and repeatedly urging Johnson to show her hands and get out of her car.
After about 15 minutes, believing Johnson had pointed a gun at them, officers unleashed a volley of shots into her car. When nothing happened after the first round of shots, officers continued shouting commands at Johnson to get out of the car.

When they again thought they saw a gun, more shots were fired into her car. “Those deputies and troopers showed a lot of restraint in not causing a further confrontation,” said [Arapahoe County Sheriff Dave] Walcher.

In about 30 minutes, from approximately 75 feet away, deputies and troopers fired 55 rounds at Johnson’s car from AR-15 rifles, .40 caliber pistols, and a shotgun. Not a single round hit her.

“I am surprised,” said Walcher.

Photos of the crime scene obtained by CBS4 also show that in the bursts of gunfire, an Arapahoe County deputy accidentally shot up a state patrol cruiser. Reports suggest the patrol vehicle was struck 28 times. The deputy was standing immediately behind the car but was apparently unaware that many of his shots intended for Johnson were actually hitting the patrol car.

Arapahoe County Sheriff Dave Walcher said,”With all the distractions and lights I don’t think our deputy realized he was hitting the top of the car”. He said his department is doing additional training to address the misfires.



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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Incorrect.
If you say so.


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Originally Posted by Swifty52
No wonder police need protection from lawsuits. They can’t fugging shoot, say chipy taught them.


It began with two drivers reporting to police that Johnson was driving erratically on Interstate 70. Johnson subsequently called police and in slurred tones, said that she was armed with an Ak-47 and intended to kill as many police as possible. “I want to kill cops,” said Johnson on the taped call. “I’m gonna kill all the cops I can. I have a gun, have a machete, have an AK-47.”

Arapahoe County deputies and the Colorado State Patrol caught up with Johnson’s Ford Focus on I-70 near Agate at about 11:30 pm. On March 3rd. They conducted a high-risk stop, keeping their distance and repeatedly urging Johnson to show her hands and get out of her car.
After about 15 minutes, believing Johnson had pointed a gun at them, officers unleashed a volley of shots into her car. When nothing happened after the first round of shots, officers continued shouting commands at Johnson to get out of the car.

When they again thought they saw a gun, more shots were fired into her car. “Those deputies and troopers showed a lot of restraint in not causing a further confrontation,” said [Arapahoe County Sheriff Dave] Walcher.

In about 30 minutes, from approximately 75 feet away, deputies and troopers fired 55 rounds at Johnson’s car from AR-15 rifles, .40 caliber pistols, and a shotgun. Not a single round hit her.

“I am surprised,” said Walcher.

Photos of the crime scene obtained by CBS4 also show that in the bursts of gunfire, an Arapahoe County deputy accidentally shot up a state patrol cruiser. Reports suggest the patrol vehicle was struck 28 times. The deputy was standing immediately behind the car but was apparently unaware that many of his shots intended for Johnson were actually hitting the patrol car.

Arapahoe County Sheriff Dave Walcher said,”With all the distractions and lights I don’t think our deputy realized he was hitting the top of the car”. He said his department is doing additional training to address the misfires.


Ya suppose anyone will be held accountable for all those errant rounds?


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Exchippy,

YOU are the reason California's so Fùcked up, and should probably be serving a life sentence for all the innocent people you prosecuted.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Exchippy,

YOU are the reason California's so Fùcked up, and should probably be serving a life sentence for all the innocent people you prosecuted.

Another big No.2 heard from.

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