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It's not that hard. I hit a bird in January at 41-42 yards in January with a load of TSS #7 and had only a single pellet below the neck, and that went across the top of the back right where it meets the neck. Otherwise, all the pellets that hit entered the neck and head.


Many? No one could "consistently" hit a turkey's head with a rifle at any distance. Heads are small and almost always in motion - always bobbing and weaving up and down and side to side. That's why you use a shotgun. You don't use a rifle to grouse hunt, do you? If you hunt turkeys with a rifle, a body shot, broadside, mid body, high on the wind will drop one with very little meat damage. A body shot on a turkey with a shotgun will damage lots of edible meat and will leave pellets in the body, unless you're using shot big and heavy enough to pass through, or at least stop at a bone. And shot also bloodshots the meat. Even little pellets will leave a bloodshot trail as it passes through.

The only time I've seen them "hold" is a hen on a nest. And once they think you are too close, they'll flush off the nest. I've traversed clear cut areas that are covered in briars and brambles, not hunting, and not knowing a hen was near, only to have her launch herself into the air and fly away when I was 10 or 20 feet away.

TSS changed the rules… but anytime you want to school me on 40 plus yard pellet pattern and retained energy and penetration… go on, it should be interesting.

Don’t hold back.

As far as flushing Turkeys in the fall...Well spring is not the only time one can call Turkeys. I'm sure some of you are familiar with the KeeKee comeback call of a busted flock.

That being said, any who have roamed the woods a lot in the fall, in a wood where there are a lot of Turkeys, it should not be rare to run into a flock. They leave a lot of scratching sign for one and two a feeding flock makes a lot of noise. Sometimes they are over the edge and you hear them. You may want to just run into them and send them every which way. And sometimes one will fly your way and close. Or you sit and start with the KeeKee.

Or you may want to try and figure out which way they are going and get in front. Sit down be still and wait for one to walk by.

Or the Dog may bust a flock and the same repeats. I've also had them run and try and hide in something thick from the Dog. Which is mistake because he/she is going to take me right to them. And often an easy flush is the result..

Seems as if there are those who prefer the spring and those who prefer the fall. Maybe us stupid ones like the fall better, since it is so much easier and not a real Turkey hunt.

What's to school you on? It's a long settled issue. If you are suggesting what those of us here have seen first hand many times is just an illusion and you have some special insight that the rest of us don't have that suggests what we all know is wrong, then lay it out.

I'm not much of a pattern guy, but give me a look at some of your 40 and plus patterns...Tell me what the retained energy is...or better yet show me some pics of skinned turkeys hit at 40 plus..I guarantee you all the pellets will not be in the head and neck.

Your mistaken if you think I don't know you can kill a turkey at 40...I'n sure you can...I'm not sure you can do it consistently or without wounding and losing a few Birds. Or show me your 40 plus yard jelly heads.

Fall Bird that I could have shot....If it wasn't Sunday. Maybe 15 yards away.




One I did....15-20...I know just a little one. 7.5 or 8's Shot him in the back running up hill. He ate well. Shot a Grouse about 30 minutes prior.



Friend managed to call this one across an open field and kill it at 20-25....absolutely amazing. Of course we cheated a little and had a decoy out.

It's interesting that you are arguing about retained energy and lost and wounded birds by taking head shots, and then advocate body shots to "cover the biggest area of the vitals."

Have you ever cleaned a wild turkey or parted one out for cooking? "Vitals" are surrounded by thick muscle and robust bone. A wild turkey's wing drum is bigger than the biggest chick leg and the bone is several time bigger. Likewise, the wing flat is very robustly built. The breast on an decent sized bird is as big as a rotisere chicken. Then you have very strong tendons and ligaments, and a virtual armor of feathers. All of this protects the vitals. The heart, liver and lungs are deep and well protected. Clean enough dead birds and you will quickly learn that these structures can keep a pellet from getting into all that. When I do find pellets in the body, they are generally up against the bone that stopped them. And even if you happen to poke a hole or two in a vital, it will be a long time before that bird is incapacitated, and likely very far from where it got shot.

The head and neck aren't nearly as well protected. Skulls aren't very thick and the spinal cord is relatively exposed. There's not much muscle around vertebrae. The head and neck contain the central nervous system which, when struck, produce incapacitation.

You're concerned about "wounding and loosing a few birds." Take body shots and that's what will happen. Probably more than a few. There's a reason serious turkey hunters don't do what you suggest - it's a literal recipe for wounded and lost birds. There's probably not a turkey hunter on this forum who hasn't had an unfortunate hit on the body of bird, rolled him, then watched him get up and run off. That is far less likely to happen with head/neck hits. The experience of hundreds of thousands of turkey hunters has proven it.

Sorry battue, you are way, way, way off base here.

If you're not a "pattern guy" you really have no business hunting turkeys. Nonetheless, here's some 40 yard patterns, and this is just what I happen to have on my Imgur account at the moment. All turkey hunters spend (or should spend) time on the rnage making sure his gun patterns appropriately.

OK, thanks for taking the effort to post up some targets. I also said TSS shot would be the exception. However, some of the lead targets are impressive.. Not all but some yes. In addition, with the obvious low pellet strikes, there are some body hits involved. Which was one of my arguments. There is more going on than ripping a head off.

As far as your anatomy lesson, I've seen enough naked Turkeys to know that at the ranges I shoot them, their body structure will have little to do with success or failure. A shotgun is a more than formidable weapon at those ranges and it would be rare for one to escape, when hit up front. As mentioned I shot the one in the back going away. Which would be about a worse case situation. It didn't kill him instantly, but he wasn't going anywhere. Wing and leg busted and most likely took a few at the base of the neck. Others have been shot breast on. The flying ones were actually closer, and have been Birds mostly coming at me or quartering away within 15-20 yards. And penetration is not always what kills...If it was then none would have died from getting hit with a steering wheel before air bags. The cumulative force of pellets, will dislodge and destroy vital organs from functioning. Something that many don't apply to the blunt force of a shotgun hit.

Some excellent patterns for lead at that range, I'll admit it. However, to say if one doesn't pattern their shotgun that shouldn't hunt Turkeys is BS. I pattern my guns thousands of times a year. It just happens to be on something other than paper. And when a Turkey is the target, it almost looks like shooting at a garbage can lid.

If you're taking body shots on turkeys pattterning is less important than if you are trying to get adequate numbers of pellets on a target smaller than a squirel for immediate incapacitation.

Yes, we agree!!!! In addition as mentioned we hunt Turkeys with a different mental outlook. I have no desire to kill a Turkey who for whatever reason stays much over 25 yards or so from me. Sometimes you will wonder what does it take? Or obviously, my calling must suck.

However for myself, shooting a Turkey at 40 yards does little for the reason I go. Same as sneaking up on one with a Turkey decoy on a stick. I could get excited about the stick thing, if you could grab him by the leg. Which would be pretty cool. You may get some scratches, but it would be worth it.

It's good you limit the range to under 25 yards if you insist on body shooting your drum sticks. Body shooting at 40 yards with lead 7.5's isn't likely to result in a turkey you can recover unless your garbage can lid target happens to catch a stray pellet or two in the noggin. And yet a properly set up turkey gun will put 180 - 200+ pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards and shred a gobbler's head and neck. That set up kills from up close to 40+ yards consistently with no drama. And it has been this way for hundreds of thousands of tuned in turkey hunters across the nation for a long long time.

I just finished up an afternoon of patterning a shotgun.

Anywaay….the top pic looks like the type of cover I normally will cross paths with a Turkey. It would be rare to have a 40 yard opportunity. And the mentioned 20 or so is usually the best you will get.

In the fall 7.5’s are chosen because Grouse are why we are there. If I do go out in the spring it most likely will be 5 or 6’s. But if 7.5’s were all I had, it wouldn’t concern me much

The difference between me and the real Turkey hunters is I don’t think killing one us all that special. But will admit a close gobble will make one pay attention.

Or one could sit up 40 or so from where they fly down in the morning….and hope they choose that spot again….give a quiet yelp to get the head to come up…. Line it up and hit the trigger.

I am pretty much finished with turkey hunting except for the fall, when I think they are better eating. Most of my early turkeys were killed with a rifle, and it is still my favorite, but I began hunting Pa. after I retired and in the spring they required a shotgun. I was shocked at how far a load of shot killed turkeys dead. I used it there in the fall also, it was pure murder. I was grouse hunting one morning and my golden, Joy busted a flock of turkeys one crossed the old road I was on and I shot quickly. A trap load of 7 1/2 from and IC choke killed it stone dead. Just my experience!!