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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Absolutely Gorgeous
Congrats on the find and purchase.
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Joined: Apr 2013
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Thanks for posting Shrapnel! I can only dream of owning a beauty like that
Charter Member
Ancient order of the 1895 Winchester
"It's an insecure and petite man who demands all others like what he likes and dislike what he dislikes."
szihn
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
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I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Outstanding!! I must confess I’m not very familiar with cartridges for the 1886. Which cartridge is your 50 caliber 1886 chambered for?
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry
Deus vult!
Rhodesians all now
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Outstanding!! I must confess I’m not very familiar with cartridges for the 1886. Which cartridge is your 50 caliber 1886 chambered for? 50-100-450. The bigger brother to the 50-110. It is made to shoot the heavier 450 grain bullet. This is it on the right compared to the 50-70 Sharps, the 50-95 or 50 Express… ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/5t4bJ7dT/186-A5-AEF-9-A9-E-4231-A0-CC-15-F400251-A9-C.jpg)
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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You suck! 😁
That is really something!
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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A real buffalo cartridge! Thanks for the info.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry
Deus vult!
Rhodesians all now
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,475
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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That's a beauty!
Did you find that at the collectors show?
What year manufacture?
"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them.
You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend."
Isak Dinesen
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
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That's a beauty!
Did you find that at the collectors show?
What year manufacture? It was made in 1896, and I found it when a guy walking through the gun show where I had some nice original 1876 Winchester rifles on display, stopped and asked if I would be interested in a 50 caliber Winchester he had. I told him I was interested and in a few weeks I was the new owner..
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went"
Will Rogers
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Thank you for the Reply!
It's been well loved and cared for, for nearly 130 years, Amazing!
"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them.
You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend."
Isak Dinesen
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
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Awesome rifle! Thanks for sharing..
Molon Labe
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Very well designed buttstock for shooting with iron sights. What a great find!
Enjoy it.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry
Deus vult!
Rhodesians all now
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Wow! I have no words to describe how impressed I am with your latest! Congratulations! By the way…..beautiful photos also! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“LETS GO BRANDON”
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2016
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Great gun. Beautiful, rare, original. Congrats on the investment in a shazam shooter !
Hoyem says it used a .512" bullet, 2.4" case length for .50-100-450 specimen ammo with lead bullet.
Giles & Shuey, pg. 158: "Presumably designed for the African market, this largest of the lever-gun calibers
never caught on here in the U.S. or abroad. A black powder cartridge coming into the market as it did in 1895 was virtually obsolete at birth.
By the time it was offered in smokeless powder and jacketed bullets (1898), the world was rapidly changing to lighter smaller calibers in
modern 'bottle-necked' cases. And while the .50-100-450 ammunition was last loaded in 1916 and cataloged until 1920, it had essentially disappeared by 1910
by which time production of the rifles had all but ceased. The last catalog in which M86s were listed in that caliber was June 1910;
in 15 years on the market, the total number of guns shipped in 50-100-450 totaled a mere 331. It is no wonder, then that cartridge boxes are very difficult to find in this rather obscure but very collectible caliber."
An empty 20-cartridge box circa 1898 with the "Winchester smokeless sunburst" on it might go for $2500 to a collector.
Williamson said he paid $12,000 for a 50-100-450 M86 takedown (pre-1984 dollars).
He said his barrel slugged .5095" in groove and had a 1:54" twist.
But he also claimed his rifle was made in 1890, which does not jive with Giles & Shuey ... ?
2.405" max brass length, 0.610" rim diameter and 0.070" rim thickness.
He made brass for it by blowing out .348 WCF brass but had to machine the headstamp off the brass
to chamber the ammo in the tight headspace for the rim.
He shot 450-gr Barnes jacketed bullets
55.0 gr IMR-3031: 1456 fps
65.0 gr IMR-3031: 1765 fps
with tissue paper over-powder wad (115.6 gr water case capacity),
from whatever full-length octagon barrel length was on the rifle, at 90*F.
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary
.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 22,999 |
Great gun. Beautiful, rare, original. Congrats on the investment in a shazam shooter !
Hoyem says it used a .512" bullet, 2.4" case length for .50-100-450 specimen ammo with lead bullet.
Giles & Shuey, pg. 158: "Presumably designed for the African market, this largest of the lever-gun calibers
never caught on here in the U.S. or abroad. A black powder cartridge coming into the market as it did in 1895 was virtually obsolete at birth.
By the time it was offered in smokeless powder and jacketed bullets (1898), the world was rapidly changing to lighter smaller calibers in
modern 'bottle-necked' cases. And while the .50-100-450 ammunition was last loaded in 1916 and cataloged until 1920, it had essentially disappeared by 1910
by which time production of the rifles had all but ceased. The last catalog in which M86s were listed in that caliber was June 1910;
in 15 years on the market, the total number of guns shipped in 50-100-450 totaled a mere 331. It is no wonder, then that cartridge boxes are very difficult to find in this rather obscure but very collectible caliber."
An empty 20-cartridge box circa 1898 with the "Winchester smokeless sunburst" on it might go for $2500 to a collector.
Williamson said he paid $12,000 for a 50-100-450 M86 takedown (pre-1984 dollars).
He said his barrel slugged .5095" in groove and had a 1:54" twist.
But he also claimed his rifle was made in 1890, which does not jive with Giles & Shuey ... ?
2.405" max brass length, 0.610" rim diameter and 0.070" rim thickness.
He made brass for it by blowing out .348 WCF brass but had to machine the headstamp off the brass
to chamber the ammo in the tight headspace for the rim.
He shot 450-gr Barnes jacketed bullets
55.0 gr IMR-3031: 1456 fps
65.0 gr IMR-3031: 1765 fps
with tissue paper over-powder wad (115.6 gr water case capacity),
from whatever full-length octagon barrel length was on the rifle, at 90*F. I have no idea how much pressure those loads are generating. I got some Buffalo Arms ammunition with the gun. They were loaded with 60 grains of what looked like IMR 3031. I would never shoot that in an old rifle such as this, it isn’t nickel steel. I copied Mike Venturino’s load from his Lever Gun book of 40 grains of 5744 and a 300 grain gas check bullet. It shoots well and I am now getting a bullet mould made to reproduce that same bullet. My original cast bullets are the top 2, the copies are the bottom 2. This guy know how to make a bullet mould… ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/4Nm2D4s5/0-E8-F2642-CB67-4038-B7-EA-BD2-B4-E1-D88-D2.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/PJQE93Ut.jpg)
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 338 |
That bullet looks like an NEI mold I have. Weighs a little over 300 grains. I’ve sized them to .501 and shoot them in my 500 lever rifles. They shoot very well.
Your 86 is an incredible piece of work.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,215 |
Collectors Firearms in Houston has one in .50 Express at the moment - it's not as nice as that one, however!
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
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That bullet looks like an NEI mold I have. Weighs a little over 300 grains. I’ve sized them to .501 and shoot them in my 500 lever rifles. They shoot very well.
Your 86 is an incredible piece of work. It is an NEI mould. I borrowed it from Mike Venturino and cast up a bunch of bullets before he sold it with the gun. It weighs 315 grains with wheel weight lead. I size mine at .512 for all my 50 caliber guns: 50-70 50-95 50-100-450
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