Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns A degradation in performance

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Yesterday I had to do some T&E shooting with some heavy .45 Colt loads I am about to put out. So I was at the range shooting a couple of .45 Colts. The load being shot is a heavy, 320 grain WFN (wide flat nose) hard cast bullet that runs around 1155 FPS.

When I was in my early 20s I enjoyed shooting top end .44 mags and .45 Colt loads. I ended up breaking my right wrist (a few times) and some bones in my hand riding bareback horses, rodeoing, and as a result have a good bit of arthritis from that. Shooting a bunch of heavy loads is not really all that much fun any more.

I try to limit the amount of heavy loads I shoot, since I will end up with a swollen wrist and pain for a couple days afterwards. Anyways, yesterday I had put about 50 or so heavy rounds down range and then tried to shoot some groups. Previously I had shot this load on paper at 25 yards and knew it grouped extremely well.

I had the target at 40 yards. I quickly discovered that the gun may have been very close at 25, but the point of impact was way off at 40. In the pic below my point of aim is actually at the lower 10 ring, and I am hitting at the 1:00




I also know from previous tests that the ammo shoots better than this, but I had just shot a bunch and now was simply unable to shoot anywhere close to the ammo's potential, even over bags.




I had simply worn my hand out for the day.

Being stubborn though, I tried to continue on.

I took my .40 cal, G22 with another new load and tried to do some group shooting over bags at the same 40 yards.




I know for a fact that this gun/ammo is absolutely dead on, in the 10 ring at 50 yards. So all the shots going left like they are, at a closer range, and the group being like it is, is completely the shooters fault.

Seeing that I stopped. I knew I was done for the day. Time for some Advil.

Yeah. That's why I have given up on the big boomers. Heavy .357 and 10mm are my limit. Those NPC's who keep saying "just pack a 44mag" don't get it.

I’m at the point where if I NEED a really heavy handgun load, I will take a rifle

Maybe you need a darker, more distinct bull.

I like to warm up with a light kicker. When I start with heavier loads if I feel that I threw a shot, I’ll try a couple of dry fires.

I like a diamonds shaped target for iron sights. I can put the point of the diamond centered on the top of the front sight blade.

That's a heavy load. Suggest shooting one group to ensure they're still grouping then move onto a load that's fun to shoot!

I know exactly what you mean, Mackay. After 70 years of shooting the "boomers," the arthritis in my right hand precludes heavy loads now. I still carry a handgun when out in the boonies, but the loads are "genteel & civilized."

My old Marlin 336 .30-30 is a constant companion, however. It hits pretty hard too, if necessary.

Good luck with your shooting.

L.W.

It happens to us all. I go to a rheumatologist, and when he looked at my X-rays 15 years ago, he noted that I had a lot of arthritis lurking in my wrists, and when I told him a shot a lot of pistol, he flat-out told me to back off awhile and let myself heal up. I did so, until about 3 years ago, but I'm not shooting anything more than .45 ACP or .357 Magnum. It's just not fun any more, to shoot a bigger boomer than those admittedly milder cartridges. It probably explains why I'm really getting into 9mm and .38 Super here lately. I can shoot those all day without pain or getting tired. I've also been shooting a lot of .22 pistols. Good practices with .22s help with everything else, emphasis on "good".

Take a little time off, now that you've got the "work" done, and play around with the smaller guns. Enjoy yourself and quit making work out of it.

Dad told me I would pay for all the rounds I was running through a Super Blackhawk.
Of course I didn't listen. Don't believe those who was you can't wear one of the out of time either.

Around 40 I noticed a couple dozen rounds at the range made my elbows and shoulders ache for days. It's been a long time since I've used any 296 in 44 or 45s.
9 or10 grains of Unique is just enough to enjoy shooting them.

Sold my 44 mag because I got tired of the punishment and at friend wanted it. Have 2 45 Colts and they ain't going anywhere.

Ransom Rest with correct grip inserts should solve this problem. The function of $ is to make life easier and more bearable.

I am starting to explore lower recoil options in all my shooting. I have some arthritis in my right hand from smashing up a joint skiing years ago. I am only usin 9mm for action pistol stuff and, after a match, it aches for a few days. My .41 and .44 revolvers are, I think going to be getting a little easier going loads. I’m trying to stick with 1 ounce 12 gauge loads for sporting clays. I’m just getting tired of getting beaten up by my guns.

Not to second-guess how your shooting went that day, but the FastFire looks to be about an inch over the top of the front sight. Sighted in at 25-yards means you had to move the bore line UP to intersect the sight line at 25 yards which will then hit high at 40 yards. With that optic set-up and distance, I would sight in at 40 yards and take what I get at 25 yards - maybe a half-inch low.

Guess i'm a$$ backward's. I just turned 60 and i'm getting into shooting a new 44mag, model 69.
22's and 45's up untill now.

Same here….I was about the same age when I stepped up “from” the .44 Mag. to something with a bit more “horsepower”! 😁😉 memtb

https://www.acebrand.com/3M/en_US/ace-brand/products/~/ACE-Brand-Wrist-Support/?N=4304+8757824+3294572301&rt=rud

The Blackhawk had an "approximate" zero with my 270 grain wide nose Keith SWCs, at a closer range. The heavier projectiles are going to have a higher POI unless I re-zero'ed for them regardless.

I simply wanted them close, as for the time being, the gun is being used for testing/load development, etc.

If/when I do decide to take it to the field for game, depending on the quarry, I will zero it for whichever load is appropriate. Still, these heavies are striking pretty high, so I may have to do some adjustment and find some happy middle ground for both loads for the time being.

For years I taught shooting at some organizations.

When people were shooting a lot during the course of a training cycle, and their performance started to decline, I would have them stop and we would discuss it.

Shooting is similar to lifting weights.

At first you can only lift a certain amount, and you get tired fairly quickly. That is normal. If you try to push yourself beyond that, your form and performance suffers.

In shooting, it is the same, you only have a certain window in which you can apply the fundamentals at your peak ability. After that, you begin to lose focus. You may not realize it at first, but you are no longer focusing on the front sight and squeezing the trigger completely with proper follow through. Before long you catch yourself looking at the target and mashing the trigger. The result on paper are pretty obvious. Your recoil control becomes sloppy, and again, the results are on paper.

When you start to see this, you are done for the day.

When I was teaching, I would tell people that there was no set time. Depending on various factors, they may have an hour of truly high performance training time, or they may have 20 minutes. After that they are just burning ammo and wasting time.

With heavy recoiling guns such as large caliber magnum revolvers, they are similar to lifting weights. It takes time to train up to shooting them well. Starting with a .45 ACP, then shooting medium velocity .44 Specials, then finally working up to top end loads, you will find that you perform quite well over the course of time.


If you take a bunch of time off, and think you are going to pick right up where you left off, shooting heavy magnums precisely, you may find that your performance is not that great. That is similar to lifting weights for a few years, then taking a year off and expecting to be able to pick up exactly where you left off, performance wise. Reality is something different in spite of what some think.

Artificial aids won't change that either.


That is why, like yesterday, I saw my performance has reached a point that to continue to shoot would be pointless. It would simply be making noise, and would not yield the results I was looking for.

Mackay,

I was done for today also. First shot with my Smith 329 and the battery cap of the mounted Fast Fire which I hadn’t tightened adequately flew off and ver my head and into the grass. I couldn’t find it. Thankfully, Burris said they’d get one to me shortly.

Next, I found the battery 🪫 in my chronograph had died.

Thirdly, the flies were biting.

I reached my limit with the 45 Colt when I hunted with it a few years. The load was the Buff Bore 325-gr hard cast at 1325 fps. Even in the tank of the Ruger RedHawk, it was brutal.

Right now my Sig P322 .22 is the most entertaining at the range.

A few things come to mind.

1. In a class, Larry Vickers told me that when he ran training on active duty, he'd limit the work to 6 hours or 300 rounds, which ever came first. He was working with best-of-the-best soldiers in top physical condition.

2. Substitute a Glock 43 for a light 44 Magnum. The results will be the same.

3. Your bones, tendons, and cartilage are good for a certain number of shots. Only God knows what that number is but He may give you hints if you listen closely.

4. All Elmer Keith ever wanted was a 250-grain bullet at 1,200 fps.


Okie John

I have found that one of the best accessories to take to the range for a session of magnum revolver work (or even with.45 or 10mm autopistols) is a good .22 rimfire pistol or revolver. Before I find myself getting sloppy, rotate to the .22, focus on fundamentals and settle down the involuntary reflex mechanisms.

OP, I understand about old injuries + Arthritis. For me it was motorcycle racing in my teens that injured some joints, my right wrist is one of the worst.

I start out with Ibuprofen nowadays. And no more big recoil pistols. Or rifles for that matter, bulging disks at C5,6 and 7 will light up nerves in left arm after just a few shots.

I tell my younger friends to have fun while you are able, tomorrow is not promised.

I really appreciate your posts, always very informative.

I'm right there with you Mac.......arthritis rears it's ugly head when I go to the range anymore......


Frog---OUT!

Before and after posterior cervical fusion from C2 through T2 was a tough time. Could not shoot for a long time. 22’s and 9mm especially Kimber lightweight full size 9mm helped. Using three pound weights and simulating pistol shooting has built some muscle and helped tremendously. I’m back to shooting a full size steel 1911 in 45 and hitting pretty well. Going to attempt the big revolvers a little at a time.
The Kimber 9mm was taken by my wife so there’s no going back!

It has taken three years to get back some ability. Ibu and hand exercises help. Also had carpal tunnel surgery on my dominant hand. Lost the ability to depress most 1911 grip safety’s so bicycle inner tube bands do it for me.

I sold my 629 Mountain Gun last year cause it was just no longer fun to shoot. Still shoot 45ACP's and a lot of 9mm but the best thing I did was buy a Glock 44 and shoot the most of my practice drills with it.

Years of hard use on my hands has left me with arthritis, Carpel tunnel release surgery and nerve damage. I've still got a strong grip but not much feeling so I found a simple ranger band on the end of the grip keeps things in place.

Frank500, Interesting to read that carpel tunnel surgery left you unable to depress a grip safety. I heard several horror stories before my surgery but thankfully, I was back to shooting 9mm's a month after surgery. It took a little while to get back to 45's but that's my limit now.

The pain and blast all add up psychologically that’s for sure. I don’t find 22s to be cure for flinches. While it becomes easier to steer the 22, I go right back to shooting $hitty picking up a 44 when I am at my limit.

I’m not sure why I can’t depress a grip safety on a 1911 now.
It hasn’t slowed me down though. No pain is a good thing. All the rest of my injuries/surgeries could take a lesson and quit hurting also.

Speaking of the .45s Colts.

The ammo I was shooting is actually a 325 grain WFN (same style as BB), and not a 320. I had 320 stuck in my head for some reason. Have to make a bunch of new labels too.

I agree about your assessment. During development, I had produced a load that was in the 1300s, similar to the load you mentioned. The accuracy was not where I wanted and quite frankly I did not see any point. Dropping the velocity 170 FPS produced loads that were very accurate, and I do not know of any animal on this continent that it will not shoot clean through on a typical broadside shot. You are going to get extremely deep penetration, in a load that shoots nice tight groups.

For a heavy .45 Colt load, I figured I could not ask for any more. I know JWP shot a pretty fair group with the ammo using iron sights, and posted a pic in another thread.

After years of shooting a lot of full power loads in a Super Blackhawk, I started noticing my elbow would stiffen up and hurt pretty quickly after starting a session. An elbow injury followed and now I can hardly straighten the arm out. Getting old ain't no fun. New to me 5.5" Bisley will spend it's life with 220ish gr bullets at 1100ish fps. I bet it will be potent enough for what I'll do.

A large revolver is actually starting to recoil before the bullet leaves the barrel, so it's reasonable to assume that your consistency of grip matters a lot. It's doubtless influenced by muscles, and joints, regardless of how much you practice.Some years ago I read of John Taffin and some other folks, who had spent years shooting heavy revolver loads, and were then having a lot of wrist & hand problems.

I bought a Super Blackhawk .44 mag in my college days, and quickly decided I did NOT like it. Years later I bought a Bisley Blackhawk in .45 Colt, and found with heavy +p loads the Bisley grip worked a lot better for me. IIRC in my 40's I shot a Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull, with full power loads. I had a chrono handy, and it was running 300's over 1600 fps. One cylinder of those was quite enough! I quickly searched and bought a PAST glove to help absorb some of the recoil, as I'd added a .480 Ruger Super Redhawk.

I shoot 1911s a lot, and so far the .45 and 10mm don't bother me. The S&W 629s with 5" full lug barrel, are about a as light a gun as what I want for shooting full power .44 mags. And I'd probably use the glove for it today, as well.

I bought a .44 mag Redhawk; the plan was to send it to Bowen for his "L frame barrel conversion" and make it a .475 Linebaugh...I may reconsider this plan...

I have not really shot enough in a day with the handguns to hit fatigue limits. But I sure used to with the rifles. When one finds himself anticipating, and bracing, for the hurt, it is time to quit, with either one.

When I lived on my own range, I preferred to run thirty or forty rounds per day through the handguns, rather than a couple hundred during a trip to the range. Now it is a drive to the range and things work out differently.

I shot my friends handguns before purchasing my first, almost twenty years ago. I knew before I ever made the purchase that I could make as much recoil with the 41 mag as I ever wanted to deal with. 250 gr cast over a full case of 296 in a super black hawk bisley hunter have verified that thought.

Shot a heavy recoiling handgun that drew blood after ten rounds. It was the most accurate handgun I ever shot. I loved it.

Yep.

Hopefully its just arthritis.
If it hurts and/or swells get it checked out.
Could be Keinbocks and early treatment may save some bone.

Guess many let it get too far.
See what my surgeon says in about a week.

Clean or replace what he told me last time.

Just sold my Ransom rest and about 10 inserts.
My eyes and wrist so bad finding a great load was gonna be kinda futile LOL

Got my dad's brass frame SBH all ready to go and bum wrist says it might be a paperweight.
Guess I could try to shoot left handed.
Boy is that gonna be a disaster.

I’ve found the same thing. I can’t remember how many times I’ve read that to improve your marksmanship, get a .22. I did (a little Ruger SP 101 in .22 LR) but i find it’s too easy just to burn through a box of shells having fun and not concentrate on managing recoil.

I haven’t liked shooting full load .44 mag loads in a long time. But just turning the load down by a couple of grains of powder can make a big difference in recoil.

My eyes give out way before my wrists. Anymore I'm good for 2 hours or so, max. After that I can barely see the target.

Glasses help to see the target, but then I can't see my front sight. Damned if you do, damned if ya' don't.

If you have bifocals, use the reading portion of the lens to aim. Then you can have a sharp front sight and a blurry target. That’ll work well at short ranges. Sight alignment, sight alignment, sight alignment. Works like a champ.

Celebrex or generic celecoxib works wonders for inflammation. It is prescribed.

My safety glasses are all prescription. I much prefer a straight distance Rx for shooting scoped rifles. But progressives work much better for me shooting clays or handguns.

That wrist pain that can affect accuracy is something pretty common with people who have shot thousands and thousands of rounds per year, year after year.

Not many people get to that point. It's good to know that I'm not the only one.

I believe I saw something on TV years ago that a skeleton of a man who shot handguns a lot was ID'd from the evident punishment in his shooting hand wrist.

Pretty sure it doesn't have to be "magnum" ammo type shooting either, but that would certainly speed things up.

Bone messed up in my wrist.
Doc says clean or replace.....maybe

Edit: no surgery reqd at this time
Arthritis sucks.

Yes, Mr. Arthur is a pain in the _________.