Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Predators and Varmints 223AI or 20 cal??

I am in a position to purchase a cooper model 21 Phoenix in either a 223AI or Tac 20.
My shooting style is crows and fox's upto about 250 - 300 yards.

I will be handloading ammunition (currently shooting 243 and 7mm-08).

I would require good effect on the fox's, don't just want to hit them and they run off. I have always maintained that accuracy kills more than calibre, but if the choice was available what would you go for?

I think I would like the 223AI but don't want it to arrive then think I should have gone for the 20!!!

I asked Karl Kampfeld the exact same thing and he is fond of the 20 Practial and 20 Taticial. I to have a 223 that I may want to change a 223 AI..........

IMO for what you're looking for a .204 is the model perfect answer. Especially if you wish to save a pelt or two from time to time.

I'd go .204 for usre between those two.

Lastly for the ranges you speak of the plain Jane 223 is a wonderful round and I see no reason (other than want) to work with the AI version.

Good luck to ya

Dober

nightwalker I have a 223AI and it works great for crows, I kill around 100 of them a year. I have also noticed that at ranges past 250 yards the 223 seems to have more Impact on prairie dogs in terms of air time and red mist factor. The 223AI I have is very easy to fireforme loads for in fact. I have shot some of my best groups using 30.0g of h335 and a 40g vmax bullet my velocity as measured on a chrony was averaging 3999.0 with a 40g bullet. while I was fire forming the brass. (this load is over max so use caution). On the other hand the 204 would be an excellent choice and at the ranges you plan to shoot it would work just fine.

I have/use both for p/dogs and what ever other varmint gets in the scope...I had/used the 204R cartridge...but have gotten away from it...having those two barrels rechambered to the 20 VT & 20 PT (Vartarg & Practical)...Of the choices you've suggested I'd go with the 223 AI...which I also have used for five summers or so...mine are all set up on s/shot Savage actions & no taper heavy SS SM Pac Nors...the 223 AI is easy to load...brass is everywhere...FF'ing is simple & also accurate...dies from Lee & Redding are 'off the shelf'..I get an honest 3500 fps with Nosler 55 BTs...27.5/Benchmark...this rifle has taken p/dogs out to 700 yds..my newest 20 rechamber the 20 PT is a real winner....all you need is a 223 bushing die with .228" or .230" bushings and a 204R seat die..I use a Forster BR seater..the Tact 20 dies are lots more $$$ with very similar ballistics...the PT using 26.5/BM and 40 V max is capable of .40" w/five rds at 100 and netting 4026 fps...whats not to like ? But again in your selection the 223 AI is one worth considering...pics are L-R
20 Fireball (20 VT) 3550 fps w/40 V max
20 Practical (20 PT) 4026 fps w/40 V max
204R 3880 fps w/40 V max
223 AI 3500 fps w/55 NBT...

Thanks for that, its what I want to hear Tikkanut!

See you moly your heads, me too, but it does seem to scorned by a great many??

Looks like its the 223AI, unless I hear different!

I have the TAC 20 and it's a tack driver as well as very pleasant to shoot. It's light carry rifle and will shoot sub .5 MOA. Having said that the .223AI makes sense if not only because of its substantially better selection of bullets but it won�t give you any great advantage in down range ballistics over the TAC 20 or 20 Practical.

223Ai is a great round. Tac20 has great formed brass right now through Luapa. The dies are not that much different in price anymore since Dakota stepped up with the tac20. No need for forming brass. Brass is running $55 a hundred for Laupa and Cooper makes loaded ammo for about $40 bucks for 50. So price on that end is about a wash.

I kinda have a thing for the sub 22cals. Tac20 with a 35gr Berger will shoot like a lazer and put a fox to sleep. A 32gr V-max will make a mess out of the other stuff. Flip a coin you will not make a bad choice. If it were my money I would go with the Tac20 for what you have on the menu, I am sure they are out there but I have yet to see a Tac20 that would not shot little bughole groups.

223AI all the way!!

For over 40gr bullet wieght the 223AI gets the nod. for 40s I beleive performance will be a wash, sub 40grs the Tac20 wins hands down. Keep in mind more lead means more splat and bigger holes. I am sure someone has a fur friendly 223AI load, but in my experience with messing with 40-50 grain bullets out of a 221Fireball rifle the can be very nasty on fox.

The one thing to beware of a 20 or especally a 17cal the are very addciting and tend to reproduce. I will someday have a 223AI, I think it is one of the greats, but a big 20cal is like a 30-06. Everyone should have at least one LOL

Didn't you mean at least one of each variation of 20's and who said they are addicting?

I'll go out on a limb and pimp the 222 Rem. Magnum!

The .222 mag is the original .223 AI...grin

Mr Bee with a handle like that you know the subs breed in a safe like rabbits LOL. I have a 14-221, right now 3 17s, just sold one to fund another. I have a 20-222AI. I am kicking a big 17or another 20 for the fall project. Late winter after calling is over one 17 is getting an overhaul. I will be packing the 20 on a texas coyote trip this year to work out a few loads. Something real cool about pulling the trigger and seeing the eyes go out at night before you see the muzzle flash in the scope.

That 223 AI is one wicked looking dude!

55 gr. at 3500...that'll do.

GB

tikkanut,

Your getting that much more speed out of the 20 Practical over the 204 Ruger? I can't understand how that is happening unless your loading the 20 practical to really high pressure levels and not the 204. The 204 Ruger appears to hold a bit more powder.

My 204R load was 29.5/BLC w/40 V max...netted 3880 fps..now the 20 PT...same moly 40 gr V max but only 26.5/Benchmark netting 4026 fps...remember this is the same barrel...only rechambered from 204R to 20 PT...and actually 1.25" shorter...the 20 PT barrel is now 25.75" long now...same primer..Rem BR 7.5...just appears the 223 case is much more effiecient than the 'powder hog' 204R.....powder fills the 223 case up much better...Chrony shows just how fast the 20PT can be.....

NW-

I know the 204 would be about perfect for what you describe because I used a Kimber Mini-Mauser M84 in 17 Rem for years on fox out to 300+ yds and it was plain neat and a good round for varmints in farming country where it's frangible bullets disintegrated with a miss into frozen ground.

I killed many from 200 yds and out and you could virtually see the hit; it was the most forgivning in regard to hide damage of any cartridge I've used though I've not nearly used all. I wished I'd have kept it.

Having said that I'm having a 223AI built now as a walk-about varminter.

Gdv

You sold a sub caliber? Well you've made a error so get two more to make up for it.

I sold a Browning A-bolt in 17AH to another sub caliber freak and board member. I did replace it with a L461 in 17Mach4 and a 14-221 Walker on a very tricked out Savage. Can I still be in the club???? I am ordering two 1/9 17 barrels after the first of the year.

Check this one will be a 17Tactical. Can I vote again?? 20Tac