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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,650
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,650 |
+ I think the 243 makes a great coyote cartridge but, given a choice between the 243 and a sling shot to use on a charging bear, I think I'll take the 2431 How heavy is the bullet in the 2431? Probably too heavy like most people want to use in the 243. If I want a 100 in a 243 or 6mm it better be fairly soft. I think the stout 100 grain bullets are why people aren't impressed with the way it kills deer. No reason for railroad spike tough bullets on a 250# or smaller animal. I would have to disagree. I have killed deer with 3 different 100 grain softpoints and never did I feel the bullet was too hard. 2 handloads, one using 100 gr Hornady Interlock and the other was a 100 gr Speer GS. One factory load using 100 gr Federal blue box. IMO they all worked ok. Maybe 3/4 inch exit wound on pretty much broadside shots. They certainly do not create damage like a 270, 308 etc but you cannot expect that from a much smaller round. Yea shoot them in the lungs with an 85 gr Sierra BTHP and they drop pretty fast but I would not want to trust that bullet on a steep angling shot. I once shot a doe broadside through the lungs with a 12 gauge Foster slug as she stepped out into a field 30 yards in front of me. I could see the thumb sized hole in her side gushing blood at every bound as I watched her run 250 yards across the field and die draped over the barbed wire fence on the other side. Another time I shot a doe coming straight at me square in the center of the chest from only 10 feet with a 12 gauge Brenneke slug. At the shot, I instantly saw a fist sized hole blow open in the front of her chest. She reared up on her hind legs at the impact and when she came down and her front feet hit the ground, I saw a huge gout of blood gush out of that gaping hole. She whirled and ran 50 yards before she went down. When I dressed her out I was dumbfounded as there was not a speck of heart left in her chest cavity. I went back to the spot where she stood when I shot her and there laid her entire heart on the ground in a pool of blood. I say all this to point out that I don't believe there's anything you can fire from the shoulder that will dependably put deer on the ground instantly with anything short of a shot that disrupts the brain/spine/CNS. I have shot them with big and heavy and very fast and fragile bullets that turned their innards to soup or literally blew them out on the ground and still seen them run. Folks who say this or that cartridge with this or that bullet will do it dependably either haven't shot many deer with that combination yet or are FOS.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 17,845
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 17,845 |
+ I think the 243 makes a great coyote cartridge but, given a choice between the 243 and a sling shot to use on a charging bear, I think I'll take the 2431 How heavy is the bullet in the 2431? Probably too heavy like most people want to use in the 243. If I want a 100 in a 243 or 6mm it better be fairly soft. I think the stout 100 grain bullets are why people aren't impressed with the way it kills deer. No reason for railroad spike tough bullets on a 250# or smaller animal. I would have to disagree. I have killed deer with 3 different 100 grain softpoints and never did I feel the bullet was too hard. 2 handloads, one using 100 gr Hornady Interlock and the other was a 100 gr Speer GS. One factory load using 100 gr Federal blue box. IMO they all worked ok. Maybe 3/4 inch exit wound on pretty much broadside shots. They certainly do not create damage like a 270, 308 etc but you cannot expect that from a much smaller round. Yea shoot them in the lungs with an 85 gr Sierra BTHP and they drop pretty fast but I would not want to trust that bullet on a steep angling shot. I once shot a doe broadside through the lungs with a 12 gauge Foster slug as she stepped out into a field 30 yards in front of me. I could see the thumb sized hole in her side gushing blood at every bound as I watched her run 250 yards across the field and die draped over the barbed wire fence on the other side. Another time I shot a doe coming straight at me square in the center of the chest from only 10 feet with a 12 gauge Brenneke slug. At the shot, I instantly saw a fist sized hole blow open in the front of her chest. She reared up on her hind legs at the impact and when she came down and her front feet hit the ground, I saw a huge gout of blood gush out of that gaping hole. She whirled and ran 50 yards before she went down. When I dressed her out I was dumbfounded as there was not a speck of heart left in her chest cavity. I went back to the spot where she stood when I shot her and there laid her entire heart on the ground in a pool of blood. I say all this to point out that I don't believe there's anything you can fire from the shoulder that will dependably put deer on the ground instantly with anything short of a shot that disrupts the brain/spine/CNS. I have shot them with big and heavy and very fast and fragile bullets that turned their innards to soup or literally blew them out on the ground and still seen them run. Folks who say this or that cartridge with this or that bullet will do it dependably either haven't shot many deer with that combination yet or are FOS. They can and will do some silly schitt with lung or heart shots. Pure heart shots have made the longer track jobs for me and the quartering away liver/lung/heart shots have yielded the shortest and easiest tracking jobs. CNS are DRT right where they stand. My .54 with a round ball has made some very short trails and I had one that I walked up on still alive, high lung shot that never touched a rib. Ended up shooting him again. I like an exit but like blending em up on the inside really well too which is why I like a softish bullet regardless of caliber or cartridge.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 17,845
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 17,845 |
+ I think the 243 makes a great coyote cartridge but, given a choice between the 243 and a sling shot to use on a charging bear, I think I'll take the 2431 How heavy is the bullet in the 2431? Probably too heavy like most people want to use in the 243. If I want a 100 in a 243 or 6mm it better be fairly soft. I think the stout 100 grain bullets are why people aren't impressed with the way it kills deer. No reason for railroad spike tough bullets on a 250# or smaller animal. I would have to disagree. I have killed deer with 3 different 100 grain softpoints and never did I feel the bullet was too hard. 2 handloads, one using 100 gr Hornady Interlock and the other was a 100 gr Speer GS. One factory load using 100 gr Federal blue box. IMO they all worked ok. Maybe 3/4 inch exit wound on pretty much broadside shots. They certainly do not create damage like a 270, 308 etc but you cannot expect that from a much smaller round. Yea shoot them in the lungs with an 85 gr Sierra BTHP and they drop pretty fast but I would not want to trust that bullet on a steep angling shot. I would consider those fairly soft. I probably should have said stout jackets/hard lead and never mentioned the 100 grain or "heavy" weight. I have used a lot of 100 grain Sierras whether SP or BTSP and been pleased but those aren't what many consider a tough bullet. Used 3 of the Hornady BTSP on my first 3 deer I shot with a 243, acted about like the Sierras. As far as that 85 BTHP I wasn't a fan. Not as much damage as I liked to see. Tough little bullet. Now the Sierra 85 grain SP Varminter really turns their lights out and will exit most of the time.
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 09/18/23.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,352
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,352 |
Me again, i am confident with the new 30/30 bullet options it is far more capable- every chambering is.
Used in a model 94( or other tube fed magazines) the advantages are minimized.
Used in a single shot or box fed magazine it is maximized.
I stand by my original statement though, the Winchester model 94- 30/30 has wounded more Game than any other rifle/ rifle chambering in history.
I own two 243 wcf's and not especially wowed by them, but I would choose either over my 30/30 for bull Elk. As well I have experience in this situation, folks
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 955
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 955 |
According to the WRAP (Whopping, Range And Power) formula devised by well-known ballistician, free-hunt scammer and bourbon tester B.S. Daily, the .243 Winchester with a 100-grain bullet would be adequate for grizzly bears weighing up to 327 pounds at ranges under 143 yards. If the bullet weight is dropped to 85 grains the maximum bear weight would drop to 254 pounds but the range would increase to 178 yards, due to flatter trajectory.
Of course, all of this depends on precise bullet placement, defined by B.S. as "1/3 of the way back from the grunt-hole to the fart-hole." Mr. Daily is also known for his frequent use of warm gas references. Mule Deer,did you ever write for Saturday Night Live,if not,you should.  Okay, now inquiring minds want to know....What would the weight and range parameters be for grizzly bears using a .257 Roberts with 100 grain monometal bullets? With 117 grain cup-and-core bullets? And your choice of propellant and charge weight, of course.
Last edited by bearbacker; 11/09/23.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,465
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,465 |
don't care what you shootm with, just kill all you see
SSS
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,775
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,775 |
The 6 Creed is waaaaaay better than the .243 for grizzlies  '06 minimum for me
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,271
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,271 |
There is a handful of 24hr Campfire members that I would recommend it for..............I like the others.
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,990
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,990 |
I've been reading on some threads about how the .243 Win. is a better cartridge than a 25-06 and that a 25-06 with 120 grain bullets is as effective as a .270 Win. I've also read about how effective the .270 can be on grizzly bears. We all know that there isn't a hill of beans worth of difference between a .270 Win. and a 30-06 and the 30-06 is a supreme grizzly bear cartridge.
Ergo, the .243 Win is as effective as a 30-06, especially with the new magic bullets, and is a grizzly killer extraordinaire.
Sorry, I'm bored. Overkill. Recommend a 22-250 with premium bullets.
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Ghost And The Darkness
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,065
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,065 |
Many a grizzly mauling has been deterred with a 9x19....
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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