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My big caliber rifle used to be a 416 Rigby. Now it’s a 45-90 1885 Win and/or a Marlin 1895 and a 1886 Win in 45-70. These don’t add up to many of the powerful rounds the op is talking about. But if I were going somewhere to shoot dangerous game I would go with my pre-64 Mod 70 chambered in 375 H&H AI or maybe my Mauser 98 in 375 Whelen AI if they allowed it.
I find I now have more of a limit regarding big guns on how much I accurately shoot. Same with revolvers I find that a fully loaded 320 grain cast load in my 44 Magnums satisfy my needs.

I’m thinking a 375 H&H is all that is needed for everything on the planet. But going after elephant, hippos or Cape or lack of same puts me in an “armchair quarterback” category.


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Originally Posted by EdM
One of my shorter shots at 130 yards.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

At 130 yards has DG become PG?


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Originally Posted by bluefish
Originally Posted by EdM
One of my shorter shots at 130 yards.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

At 130 yards has DG become PG?


It's hunting so take the oportunity that's presented.



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Originally Posted by bluefish
Originally Posted by EdM
One of my shorter shots at 130 yards.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

At 130 yards has DG become PG?

Pure comedy.


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I very much enjoy the .416 Taylor loaded to duplicate the .404/.450-400 with 400gr bullets at 2150. It's quite manageable and effective. At eight pounds it's also pretty nice for carrying. All I've killed with it so far are deer and brown bears.

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Once you add Buffalo into the bag the financial aspect changes drastically as dangerous game increases the daily rate a lot. I lucked out on my last trip as I did a 7 day plains game hunt in one area and a 7 day Bufflao hunt in another area. Basically I did two hunts with two different price points.

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Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by bluefish
Originally Posted by EdM
One of my shorter shots at 130 yards.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

At 130 yards has DG become PG?

Pure comedy.

Good to see EdM can make a joke.
I hear he is O&G retired.
Obstetrics & Gynecology does cramp a sense of humor.
At medical school graduation, the bottom 10% of the class
went into Orthopedics if they could bench-press more than their own weight.
the rest did O&G.
Latter were advised to take up the .416 Remington Magnum instead of the .458 Winchester Magnum.

Back before my enlightenment, I took a Ruger No. 1 .416 Rigby to a game farm in Tennessee.
That was with the 350-gr X-Bullet.
I shot a fallow deer doe at 342 yards.
Hit her in the bottom of her ribcage, just a little low, below the heart.
It unzipped her belly and her intestines popped out on impact.
Got that on video, old VHS zoomed in.
Can't fault the .416/350-grainer for that, just me.
But their was very little meat loss and it was a good start at field dressing.
Not the perfect one-shot kill, however.

Same day I also shot a one-ton water buffalo bull.
Ok, maybe it was a meat-steer past his prime and cast off to the game farm for a profit.
No balls, but he was sturdy, not confused about his gender.
Used same load, from 150 yards.
Hit him in the boiler room and he acted like it was a horse fly bite, just a little shiver of hide shake.
He started walking in tight circles.
Bumfuzzled, I reloaded the Ruger No. 1 and walked a hundred yards closer and shot him in the neck.
He finally dropped.

Moral of the story is that, ideally, buffalo should be shot at 50 yards, not 150 yards.
Do not let a lazy PH tell you to shoot at a buffalo moving through a clearing at 150 yards away
while you are perched on the side of a termite mound with wobbly shooting sticks about to go sideways,
unless you are the reincarnated Buffalo Bill in Africa with a 50-70 Trapdoor named Lucretia Borgia.


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Originally Posted by Wildcatter264
.. but given my penchant for 404s - 4 versions sitting in the safe now - in the heavy medium class and my tepid-at-best opinion of the 416 Rem Mag, it doesn’t get any use. Been thinking about rebarrelling it with a spare 416 Rigby Ruger No. 1 barrel sitting on the workbench - and rechambering it in some odd shortened wildcat - but haven’t been able to get back to the shop recently ...

... Looks like I’ll need to pull out that 416 Rem But as JOC said “It’s all about fun and games.” Given that life’s all too short, let the games resume!!

Sir Khulu,
You are a wise man.
I do love the 404 Jeffery also.
Will return the .410/404 JRNE to straight 404 Jeffery.
Rebore of that .410 barrel, or original factory barrel ...
Here is a nice 404 Jeffery in a Brown Precision stock that I rebuilt from fitting an M70 short action to fitting the M70 long action,
re-barreled .300 RUM:

[Linked Image]


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I wanted and have a 416 Rigby because that is what Harry Selby carried.

I also have a Whitworth MarkX in 416 Remington

Love 416s

Last edited by jwp475; 09/27/23.


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I got to fire Selby's rifle around 20 years ago, which he'd sold to one of his regular clients, a guy from Arkansas. It was actually pretty lightweight for a .416, weighing 9-1/4 pounds, since it never had a scope mounted--and impressed me with the relatively tolerable recoil.

Bought mine from a friend a year or so later, a CZ 550 Magnum with the European high-comb stock--with a very long forend. I remodeled it to match Selby's rifle, both the weight and stock dimensions, and also slicked up the action a little so it fed easier. Used it on two buffalo, and worked very well, of course--but the second one was taken with Luke Samaras Safaris.

Luke is a long-time PH, first in Kenya until it was closed down, and then in Tanzania until it was closed for a couple of years. He then went to work for Rigby until Tanzania opened again. He had several fine dangerous-game rifles in various chamberings, but preferred a .416 Rigby bolt because it shot flatter and more accurately than larger cartridges, especially double-rifle rounds.

He liked that it could flatten a wounded lion at 200 yards, without having to hold over--but could also stop bigger game. Yet it operated at relatively low pressure compared to smaller .40+ rounds, which helped when he operated in the Selous, a pretty hot area. (I hid my thermometer when it hit 105 once day, and other days got hotter...)

We had quite a conversation about the .416, and I also got to take some photos of his genuine Rigby rifle--which he helped build. Might post one here later.


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A thank you to everyone who posted replies to my question. There's a lot of useful information here that I do appreciate. As a general rule, I don't do a lot of things impulsively: I enjoy the planning phase too much. It gives me something to think about. For my intended usage, I feel that the majority of the ones being discussed here would work well for me as long as I do my job correctly. It appears the probability of making a bad choice is really low.

Having said that, there is a very good chance that the one that I choose will be the "great deal" that I stumble across that's for sale at an attractive price. If a LH 404, 416 or 458 materialized one day in the next several years & I really liked it, chances are high I might grab it based entirely on how rarely this occurs. At auctions with 500+ guns it's not uncommon to have less than ten LH rifles listed and most of them will be much more common calibers than what's being discussed in this thread. So random opportunity may be the deciding factor instead of desire or statistical superiority.

As someone who is fond of classic calibers, going to hunt in Africa with a 404J appeals on a lot of levels. If one of those ever appears (I can't remember ever seeing one), that would definitely grab my attention. If an affordable Ruger #1 appears in this caliber, I might grab it regardless of what else I've purchased just to own one for the fun of it. A Ruger #1 in a more available 450/400 is another one that might scratch that particular itch.

But when it comes to LH bolt actions, the main thing this thread has done has increased my appreciation for the capabilities of the 416 Rem Mag & the 458 Win Mag a lot. If time passes & it looks like an African hunt is going to become a reality, then rebarreling a readily available LH 7mm Rem Mag into the 458 Win Mag as Ron suggested will definitely start moving up the list as a viable solution. Fortunately I have several years to figure out exactly what I want to do so it'll be interesting to see what opportunities appear.

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You sound pretty logical. Were I in your situation I'd look for a left hand Model 70 .375 or a regular length magnum boltface, or a Ruger 77 chamberd for a magnum and then rebarrel to the .404 or .458. If you find one with enough meat in the barrel have JES rebore it to .458 for you.

Regardless, there's a alot of opinions out there with some strong feelings behind them. We all have to figure out what works best for our situation and application. Best of all, unlike religion, there are multiple correct options that lead to the same pile of large, formerly dangerous, dead animals.

I went with the .416 Taylor because it shoots bullets of great sectional density with good options in both heavier and lighter weights, is a commonly available diameter, could be housed in a light rifle to be carried alot, and can be formed from (in better times anyway) commonly available brass. It works for me and I'm happy with it but the reality is there's a number of options that would work for people looking for the benefits of a .40+ cartridge.

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Originally Posted by pabucktail
You sound pretty logical...If you find one with enough meat in the barrel have JES rebore it to .458 for you.

When I was looking around at rifles in the past, there were certain cartridges with a 375 H&H parent case that I would often ignore because they weren't on my To-Buy list (e.g. 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 8mm Rem Mag, 338 Win Mag, etc.). Now that I know these could be a good base to build one of these larger caliber rifles off of, I'll evaluate them from a different viewpoint moving forward. For a JES rebore, I might have the best luck if I find a LH rifle at the more powerful end of the rifles I just listed.

The good thing about all of the cartridges listed above and the 458 Win Mag is that they have the exact same overall length at ~85mm. The 416 Rem Mag is 91.4mm so it's a bit longer. And rifles like the Ruger 77 have a magazine that is limited to 87mm. So not to knock the 416's capabilities but my guess is that I would run into less unforeseen feeding problems if I favored the shorter cartridge since both would be adequate. The good thing about any decision along those lines is that I can always post my plan here and have people throw rocks at it. As much as I appreciate you saying I'm logical, other people are more than happy to point out when I'm about to do something dumb too. wink

Last edited by odonata; 09/28/23.
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Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard

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Originally Posted by elkhunternm

Hey elkhunternm, thanks a lot for the link! As a big computer nerd, my internet searching skills are not too bad. It's almost a necessity because I'm often looking for a needle in a haystack.

In my Chrome browser I have about 60 searches grouped into 7 folders. All I have to do is right-click on the folder & select Open All (<count>) and it will open a new tab for each search. So I have searches on GunBroker, GunsInternational, eBay, etc. grouped by category & already setup, sorted & filtered to only show me the new stuff that's appeared in the last 48 hours. I can quickly see if any of the unicorns I've been searching for have popped up during the night while I'm drinking my coffee each morning. It's a methodical system that's worked pretty well over the years. I just glance at each tab & if I don't see anything interesting, I hit <Ctrl><F4> to make the tab close & on to the next list. It only takes a few minutes each day to look at a lot of stuff.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

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Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell

Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard

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Originally Posted by bobmn
Crank:" I was impressed with how similar it was to the CZ 550 Magnum in .416 Rigby in weight and handling"
I disagree. I owned a CZ550 Magnum. It weighed as much as a M1 Garand. It had a 25" barrel screwed onto an action longer than M98. If I could afford a M98 modified to take the longer 416 Rigby I am sure it would handle better than a CZ550 Magnum but I have never handled one. Not only did the Ruger work great in Africa chasing buffalo but it has served me well in Alaska in bear country.

What !
In Botswana in 2001, the PH Ronnie McFarlane had .416 Rigby like Harry Selby used.
He was backing up an elephant hunter with it.
I was being soired for buffalo by the young PH-appy
who toted a CZ .416 Rigby that had a straight-combed, slim stock
unlike the Lux "Euro-Hogback" and "Fat-American" style stocks we got in the USA.
I fondled both and the similarity in weight and balance was remarkable.
I bought one when I got home and the Lux-stocked one weighed about 9.25 lbs with the
muzzle diameter of 0.667" at 25" length and integral "dognut" rear sight base,
and hidden heavy steel F-Block in the forearm barrel lug contraption.
I think I bought about a half dozen of the .416 Rigby CZ 550 Magnums and re-barreled them all
to a crazy collection of wildcats on the Rigby and .338 Lapua case heads.

Disagree with me and you must disagree with Mule Deer too ?

[Linked Image]

Those first CZs in those calibers had no cross bolts !
I had a gunsmith install them on mine and perfectly glass bed throughout, and still the 404 Jeffery snapped through the wrist.
Just bad grain, marble cake.
CZ kept the broken stock and I hope this taught them how to crossbolt and glassbed the later rifles,
as well as being more careful with stock wood selection,
and they started putting the "Kevlar" stock on factory rifle routinely,
instead of just selling them for $200 more than B&C does now.
That was almost 20 years ago.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Big Red the meat steer water buffalo taken with Ruger No. 1 in .416 Rigby, old 350gr X-Bullet required two shots.
150 yards was like a horse fly bite.
50 yard neck shot ended it at the game farm.
I scored another dollar-per-pound bargain, last century.

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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404 Jeffery Winchester M70, Brown Precision stock, decorated with J-B Weld inside and out.

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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When you find your buffalo at this range

[Linked Image]

crawl as close as you can, it was 80 yards here:

[Linked Image]

404 Jeffery M70 with 380-gr North Fork SSP at 2535 fps from 24" barrel did the job with one shot:

[Linked Image]

EdM, what a joker.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary
.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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