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Went with a couple ball powders to make most use of 308 case volume. Just did one round of each load for velocity/pressure indications. I'm going to load up some of the 51/52 gr 2230C for an accuracy check. Curious how they will do jumping .150" to the lands. Only one way to find out. 308 Winchester Loads, 22" factory bbl Win brass 130 TTSX, moly'd 50gr W748 2917 fps 51gr W748 2967 fps 52gr W748 2992 fps 50gr 2230C 3019 fps 51gr 2230C 3079 fps 52gr 2230C 3113 fps 53gr 2230C 3207 fps QL calc's for 2230C. I factored up the case volume from 58.0gr to 59.0gr to account for the freebore. Calcs and velocity are fairly close. 53gr at 3200+ looks nice, and the brass or bolt lift didn't show any issues, but at 67K calc'd pressure, it seems prudent to back off to 51-52 grains. Powder indicates AA2460, as indicated by AA, as 2230C is not a standard powder.
Cartridge : .308 Win.
(59.0 gr volume,factory Remington chamber/throat)
Bullet : .308, 130, Barnes 'TSX'BT 30838, Friction Proofed
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch or 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch or 558.8 mm
Powder : Accurate No.2460
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-02.0 96 50.00 3015 2623 55591 8599 98.7 1.013
+00.0 98 51.00 3074 2727 59440 8705 99.2 0.984
+02.0 100 52.00 3133 2833 63575 8797 99.5 0.955
+03.9 102 53.00 3191 2940 68023 8875 99.8 0.927
+05.9 104 54.00 3249 3048 72814 8936 99.9 0.901
+07.8 105 55.00 3307 3157 77983 8982 100.0 0.875
+09.8 107 56.00 3365 3268 83568 9014 100.0 0.850
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Campfire Regular
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What would same powder do with 165 cup&core types?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
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I would be interested to know how the velocities would change if you moved toward slower burning powders like RL12 or Ramshot TAC...
I never thought I'd like the 308 with 130's but I like your efforts...Thanks...
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I'm a big fan of the courtesy flush.
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
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Here's a QL powder list for 130s:
Cartridge : .308 Win. (58.0 gr water capacity, Winchester brass)
Bullet : .308, 130, Barnes 'TSX'BT 30838, Friction Proofed
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch or 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch or 558.8 mm
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Winchester 748 99.5 52.0 3.37 3170 99.3 62000 10988 0.939
Accurate No.2520 101.4 52.5 3.40 3147 99.7 62000 10742 0.956
Hodgdon BL-C2 100.2 52.9 3.43 3142 98.8 62000 11054 0.951
Hodgdon H335 96.7 51.0 3.31 3132 99.6 62000 10607 0.946
PB Clermont PCL 507 101.0 51.2 3.32 3129 98.8 62000 10771 0.948
Ramshot TAC 100.3 51.1 3.31 3128 98.8 62000 10751 0.948
Somchem S321 100.1 51.8 3.35 3126 98.9 62000 10822 0.953
Nitrochemie A/S 0300 91.7 45.7 2.96 3122 100.0 62000 9621 0.950
SNPE Vectan SP 10 94.2 48.9 3.17 3122 99.9 62000 10316 0.950
Hodgdon H322 97.3 47.3 3.06 3121 100.0 62000 10002 0.944
ADI AR 2219 94.3 47.3 3.06 3121 100.0 62000 10002 0.944
PB Clermont PCL 508 94.2 48.9 3.17 3120 99.9 62000 10303 0.950
Ramshot X-Terminator 95.3 48.0 3.11 3111 100.0 62000 10052 0.952
Rottweil R901 101.2 47.8 3.10 3102 99.8 62000 10222 0.970
IMR 3031 103.0 47.8 3.10 3101 100.0 56315 10291 0.980
Accurate No.2460 99.6 51.0 3.30 3100 99.3 62000 10356 0.965
Lovex D073 95.2 48.8 3.16 3087 100.0 62000 9707 0.959
SF-033 fl 94.7 47.0 3.04 3087 100.0 62000 9171 0.964
Accurate No.2230 96.7 50.0 3.24 3086 99.2 62000 10146 0.962
Somchem S341 103.0 53.3 3.45 3084 97.2 60354 10625 0.958
Alliant Reloder-12 99.8 49.4 3.20 3083 100.0 62000 9782 0.950
Alliant Reloder-10x 92.3 44.8 2.90 3082 100.0 62000 9324 0.960
SNPE Vectan SP 9 103.0 51.6 3.35 3077 97.1 58672 10790 0.969
ADI AR 2210 94.9 47.6 3.08 3073 99.2 62000 9981 0.953
Hodgdon VARGET 103.0 50.3 3.26 3071 97.4 60019 10499 0.959
Norma 202 103.0 49.2 3.19 3071 99.7 58369 10252 0.977
Lovex S060 102.9 48.9 3.17 3068 98.5 62000 10047 0.951
Accurate XMR 2015 102.9 46.7 3.02 3067 100.0 62000 9288 0.965
PB Clermont PCL 516 103.0 53.3 3.45 3066 94.9 58710 10902 0.969
ADI BM2 92.8 48.0 3.11 3064 99.2 62000 9904 0.953
Hodgdon Benchmark 100.1 48.1 3.11 3062 99.2 62000 9892 0.954
Norma 200 91.9 44.6 2.89 3060 100.0 62000 9089 0.974
Norma 201 103.0 49.2 3.19 3058 98.4 58677 10437 0.985
ADI AR 2206 102.8 49.4 3.20 3046 98.1 62000 9942 0.953
IMR 4320 103.0 50.8 3.29 3045 96.4 56398 10585 0.975
Rottweil R902 103.0 49.2 3.19 3042 98.3 57909 10360 0.992
IMR 4895 103.0 48.9 3.17 3037 97.8 53891 10583 0.988
Hodgdon H4895 102.9 49.4 3.20 3037 97.9 62000 9871 0.953
ADI AR 2206H 101.8 49.4 3.20 3037 97.9 62000 9871 0.953
IMR 4198 94.2 42.2 2.74 3036 100.0 62000 8585 0.946
Vihtavuori N133 101.9 47.3 3.07 3035 100.0 62000 8977 0.954
Accurate XMR 2495 103.0 47.8 3.10 3035 100.0 53916 10124 1.037
ADI AR 2208 103.0 50.3 3.26 3025 95.9 56969 10463 0.980
Vihtavuori N130 97.0 45.6 2.95 3023 100.0 62000 8805 0.961
Hodgdon H4198 95.1 42.6 2.76 3022 100.0 62000 8884 0.948
Vihtavuori N540 103.0 52.2 3.38 3016 97.0 58422 10371 0.981
Raufoss RA11 103.0 50.0 3.24 3013 95.4 53157 10802 1.014
Alliant Reloder-15 103.0 50.0 3.24 3013 95.4 53157 10802 1.014
Somchem S335 103.0 48.9 3.17 3011 100.0 59404 9451 0.982
SNPE Vectan Sp 7 103.0 53.5 3.47 3009 95.5 53069 10846 1.011
Norma 203B 103.0 50.0 3.24 2999 95.9 52121 10756 1.023
IMR 4064 103.0 48.9 3.17 2985 95.8 54714 10183 1.001
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,050
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 19,050 |
QL powder list for 165 NBT:
Cartridge : .308 Win. (58.0gr water capacity, Winchester brass)
Bullet : .308, 165, Nosler BalTip 30165
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch or 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch or 558.8 mm
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Winchester 748 95.5 46.8 3.03 2804 100.0 62000 9620 1.051
IMR 4895 103.0 45.9 2.97 2800 99.9 60979 9641 1.044
IMR 3031 101.4 44.1 2.86 2797 100.0 62000 9041 1.056
SNPE Vectan Sp 7 103.0 50.2 3.25 2791 98.9 61324 10074 1.060
Alliant Reloder-15 103.0 46.9 3.04 2788 98.8 60886 10043 1.066
Raufoss RA11 103.0 46.9 3.04 2788 98.8 60886 10043 1.066
Hodgdon BL-C2 96.3 47.6 3.09 2786 99.8 62000 9769 1.063
IMR 4320 102.0 47.2 3.06 2784 99.2 62000 9710 1.045
Accurate No.2520 97.3 47.2 3.06 2781 100.0 62000 9352 1.069
SNPE Vectan SP 9 100.8 47.4 3.07 2777 99.2 62000 9767 1.057
Norma 203B 103.0 46.9 3.04 2776 99.1 59831 9975 1.075
PB Clermont PCL 516 100.8 48.9 3.17 2775 97.8 62000 9985 1.056
PB Clermont PCL 507 97.1 46.1 2.99 2772 99.8 62000 9515 1.059
Ramshot TAC 96.4 46.0 2.98 2771 99.8 62000 9493 1.059
Somchem S321 96.2 46.7 3.02 2770 99.9 62000 9556 1.064
Hodgdon H335 92.9 46.0 2.98 2769 100.0 62000 9286 1.058
Accurate XMR 2495 102.3 44.5 2.89 2767 100.0 62000 8912 1.091
Somchem S341 99.9 48.4 3.14 2761 99.1 62000 9532 1.057
ADI AR 2208 101.8 46.6 3.02 2758 98.7 62000 9633 1.055
Norma 202 100.7 45.1 2.92 2757 100.0 62000 9042 1.065
SNPE Vectan SP 10 90.4 44.0 2.85 2754 100.0 62000 8988 1.063
PB Clermont PCL 508 90.4 44.1 2.85 2753 100.0 62000 8977 1.064
Hodgdon VARGET 100.2 45.9 2.97 2752 99.3 62000 9460 1.056
IMR 4064 103.0 45.8 2.97 2752 98.9 62000 9447 1.059
Norma 201 100.7 45.1 2.92 2752 99.8 62000 9347 1.074
ADI AR 2219 90.5 42.5 2.76 2748 100.0 62000 8699 1.058
Hodgdon H322 93.4 42.5 2.76 2748 100.0 62000 8699 1.058
Rottweil R902 101.1 45.2 2.93 2748 99.8 62000 9310 1.074
Rottweil R907 102.8 48.8 3.16 2742 94.8 62000 9913 1.065
Accurate No.2460 95.7 45.9 2.97 2742 100.0 62000 9074 1.078
Ramshot X-Terminator 91.4 43.2 2.80 2741 100.0 62000 8747 1.065
Rottweil R901 97.0 43.0 2.78 2735 100.0 62000 8897 1.084
Hodgdon H414 103.0 50.4 3.27 2734 91.8 60738 10139 1.073
SNPE Vectan SP 11 103.0 48.4 3.14 2731 98.4 54946 10060 1.100
Vihtavuori N140 102.9 45.9 2.97 2730 100.0 62000 8698 1.065
Vihtavuori N540 101.2 48.0 3.11 2729 99.2 62000 9458 1.066
Accurate No.2230 92.9 45.0 2.92 2729 100.0 62000 8903 1.075
Lovex D073 91.4 43.9 2.84 2718 100.0 62000 8429 1.074
ADI AR 2210 91.3 42.9 2.78 2718 100.0 62000 8795 1.065
Alliant Reloder-12 95.9 44.5 2.89 2717 100.0 62000 8531 1.065
Lovex S060 99.1 44.1 2.86 2717 99.7 62000 8908 1.063
Hodgdon Benchmark 96.4 43.4 2.81 2708 100.0 62000 8721 1.066
Vihtavuori N135 103.0 44.8 2.91 2706 100.0 59632 8419 1.087
ADI AR 2206 99.2 44.6 2.89 2701 99.5 62000 8860 1.064
SF-033 fl 90.4 42.1 2.73 2701 100.0 62000 7962 1.083
ADI AR 2206H 98.2 44.7 2.90 2694 99.3 62000 8811 1.064
Hodgdon H4895 99.3 44.7 2.90 2694 99.3 62000 8811 1.064
Accurate XMR 2015 98.6 42.0 2.72 2693 100.0 62000 8076 1.082
Vihtavuori N550 103.0 48.9 3.17 2687 96.3 51372 10279 1.138
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 22,129
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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----------------------------------------
I'm a big fan of the courtesy flush.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,050
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
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Checked accuracy/trajectory today. 100 yard 1.0" group. I had the rifle zeroed for 155gr Scenar at 2805 fps. The 130s grouped 2.5" high at 100 yards. Aiming point was upper left corner of inside box. Trajectory calcs indicated 6.25 moa to 400 yards. Since I was already 2.5 moa high, I cranked on another 4.0 moa, to put me at 6.5 moa total. The three-shot group was about 6" high. One hit the target, one clipped it, and one was on the backer. The group was only 2". I dialed down to 5.0 moa and fired the last three rounds. It printed about .5 moa below aim point, and 3.5" lateral spread, less than .5" vertical spread. Wind was 9 o'clock, 0-5 mph variable. Working backwards through Quicktarget indicates a BC of about .470, and 400 yd velocity of about 2300 fps. Seems too good to be true. I'll run it out to a further distance in the future. ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/Targets/CopyofIMG_7404.jpg)
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,340
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
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Too bad those tsx's will bounce off of anything tougher than cardboard.....ha ha.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 22,129
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 22,129 |
You might want to work on the long range shoot'n there Shane...  You got any lefties you want to unload?
----------------------------------------
I'm a big fan of the courtesy flush.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 798
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 798 |
Shane,not trying to hijack your thread but found what you have done interesting as i am using the 130TSX in the 300WSM for a hunt in Old Mex in 2 weeks. With R-15 i am getting 3400fps on the nose and sub moa groups. I run out of useable energy at 550yds (approx.1200ft/lbs). I can get more speed but i am satisfied with speed and accuracy as is. I found that your 308 getting 3200 is very interesting. Have you compared recoil with a typical 168BT? The 300 with a #3 tube and Mcmillan gelcoat is very tolerable with the 130.
Bill
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I haven't tried the 130 TSX, but I'm pleasantly surprised at how flat these TTSX fly. Barnes hasn't published BC for the TTSX yet.
Recoil feels faster with the 130s going 3125, than 168s going 2700. Not necesarilly harder, but faster.
Bart, I've only got two LH 700s. This one, and the heavy 30-06. gotta keep 'em both. I need to round out the battery with a LH 700 in .223.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I was shooting off the ground, using Harris bipod up front, and a beanbag in the back.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Thanks Shane. Exbal says the drops are almost identical for the TTSX and the TSX. I 'll let you know how they do on the big mule deer in Mex.
I'm a lefty too, but this particular wsm is a righty...my 264 is a LA 700 lefty as is my 308 Tactical and 223 tactical.
Last edited by Bill_Davis; 12/19/07.
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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130 TTSX with polymer tip pulled out. On the right is a 168gr TSX. ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/Loading/Img_7409.jpg)
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277 |
 wowsa that is a hole! What cal is it....grins Was the tip tough to pull out Shane? Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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About .10"
I held the bullet with a Leatherman, and pulled the tip with a needlenose pliars. It came out fairly easy, twist and pull.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277 |
Hmm I wonder how it would perform on game without the tip in there?
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
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I'd imagine it would work very well, but BC would probably take a big hit.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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130 TTSX with polymer tip pulled out. On the right is a 168gr TSX. This is why I think the expansion problems (however rare they might have been) might have gone away with the TTSX.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Wow, Im a bit shocked on the reported bc of .470. I was thinking if it broke .400 on a good day it would be lucky. I worked back with the quick target on a regular 150 TSX and was only getting about .409 compared with the factory .415.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
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