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Traded into a pre-64 model 70 at a recent show. 1948 ,30-06, nice bore/metal, missing rear sight, but re-stocked.
any ideas on value ?
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Need some more pics to be sure of anything, or for even just a guess. But it looks more like a '49 or '50 to me. Std wt 30-06 with quite a bit of bluing wear on the receiver and barrel. I might be wrong, because pics may not be representing it very well. Is that the original bolt, serial # etched on the bolt body? Can we get a pic of the bolt face and muzzle? Partial serial # like 95xxx would be helpful so we know for sure when it was made. Does it have the clover leaf tang? Did the gloss scope come with it? If so, that can be added to the value. I'm assuming that is a Vari-x IIc 3-9X40? Some more info required and maybe a few more pics of the right areas, would help. How do the proof marks line up, what is the barrel date stamp on the underside??? A close up of the bolt handle, extractor, raceways, and wear on floorplate, can all tell me a little about how it was used too.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
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Cant agree on heavy blueing wear. Barrel marked 48, bolt number matches. I added the scope, older Leupold Vari x with tapered crosshair reticle

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Sweet. Like I said, "49-'50". Your rifle was made in 1949. Some things stood out to make me think this. Now the serial number confirms it. Sorry, but the first pics sucked big time. The ones I asked for are much better. First off, I'd like to say that the stock does not hurt its value, but it does hurt it's collectability. I would not fret over that at all. Rifle shows minimal honest wear. It's been shot as much as it's been carried. I'd still want to see pics of the proof marks lined up. Nice rifle judging by the new pictures.

In my mind, that is a $1,300.00 rifle all day long. The only thing that hurts its value is the common chambering and the missing front sight hood, plus it does not have it's original rear sight.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Thanks for the info bsa . Just trying to figure why this is a 49-50' rifle ? My book says 1948 ran from #101680 to #131579. Also my barrel marked 48 .
I have extra sight hood and rear sight for it, but because its re-stocked, probably wont use them. I will put a slot blank in.
Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving !
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Looks good man. Original barrel on that one, from this side of the screen. There's a few tell tale signs that it was a '49-'50, but you don't want me to tell all my secrets? For one, it does not have the transition safety lever. Generally most '48's I've seen have them. Not all, but most. Not consulting Rule on this, but a general rule I've seen. Also, it didn't look like a clover leaf tang stock (in the OP pics), which was also a 1948 (and prior) detail on the pre 64 model 70. However, based on serial number alone, it is a 1949. The other items I state are just more things that confirm it.

I'm also hoping you got a fair deal in trade. I'd hunt that rifle just the way it is, sans the std mounts. Go with some DD's, it will look better, and be stronger. The gloss leupold looks great on that one too..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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I dont have the Rule book with me right now, but Madis states the cloverleaf was changed in 1947 ..
This is getting as confusing as collecting 1899 Savages! Lol

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Originally Posted by kenster99
I dont have the Rule book with me right now, but Madis states the cloverleaf was changed in 1947 ..
This is getting as confusing as collecting 1899 Savages! Lol

There's a reason they called it a "transition" period. It's not confusing at all.. I've had 1948 rifles with the clover leaf tang. I've even had a '49 with a clover leaf tang, but that was an H&H. You want to see confusing, try following those in particular. Madis may not be your best reference source.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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S/N 102588, Jan. 1949, a relatively early Type 111 oval tang gun.
To the greatest extent possible the Winchester Arms Collectors site uses actual Winchester Factory Polishing Room Records to determine date of production. Find in tool bar “Resources”, drop down menu “When Was My Winchester Made”. Probably most accurate info available.
No issue with a 48 stamped barrel or the proofs on your gun.


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Thanks !

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A very nice rifle! I would be very happy to own/hunt with it were it mine!

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It looks like they did nice work and chose good wood on the stock. I'd be proud of it.


Originally Posted by BrentD

I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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Originally Posted by high_country_
It looks like they did nice work and chose good wood on the stock. I'd be proud of it.


Beautiful stock finish

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I follow the lead, logic & expertise I'm reading here. Just to add my own spin. As noted the two "value" poles of the pre '64 Model 70 in collector context and in custom context. The Model 70 earned its reputation in terms of engineering expressed design, as foundational to quality of of materials and workmanship. The design 'arguably' improved on the Mauser 98 in terms of the 41xx series of Chrome Moly Steel in receiver, bolt and barrel. A standard high water mark of favored materials of its era and appreciated yet today. The Standard Stock was to me, frankly a bit "clunky" if the 'real deal' in quite decent wood. The Super Grade exuded what could be done and to my thinking and today, reflects a great "custom" workmanship of design capability!

The point here, is that both collector aura and custom gun potential arose with the justifiable "legend" in post '63 era times. Winchester 'stepping on its own organ', did much to promote the "Pre" aura by simple comparison of the "Post" aura. The end of the CRF which it so assertively promoted as suddenly "Poof!" So the CRF and the entire barreled action package became valuable. In conjunction was the growing collector dimension, but in origin really far more in the uncommon/ or more 'exotic' chamberings. The 30-06 and .270 were more the fodder of custom gun fanciers. Collectiblity goes hand in hand with rarity and chambering was a fundamental dimension. Of course too, the less common sub model iterations such as Target rifles of the various several flavors. So, the first "collectibles" in the Super Grade, sub-species and chamberings. The "custom: lines were outgrowth dimensions of the 70 action and there were plenty of those common chamberings as fodder for some damn nice guns.

So! My Thesis, that the "average" unmolested as collectible-defined" model 70 in the common chamberings, really are the "coat tailers" of the rarer chamberings as factually many truly quality customizations may well reflect greater actual value than a pure, but common, original 70 specimen wihtout greater "factory uncommon factors. Thus the example in this thread, to me factually exceeds the value of a very clean original "Standard '06" specimen. I'd take more pride in that Custom than in a "clean, original 'pre' Standard in '06!

Take the typical pre '64 in common chambering being fielded and condition reflecting, even as original, highest & best value may repose in the action component potential. Adding as afterthought one additional factor in the "Prewar & early postwar iterations particularly of no D&T & such tang style and lower SNs.

The Model 70 pre '64 aura is just that and where the rubber meets the road are the uncommon specimens and "nugget" actions where visionaries can tap such CRF potential for great custom rifles!

Whew! smile
Just my take! (& now to bed hazarding posting "unedited"... Oh my!)
Best!
John

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Originally Posted by iskra
I follow the lead, logic & expertise I'm reading here. Just to add my own spin. As noted the two "value" poles of the pre '64 Model 70 in collector context and in custom context. The Model 70 earned its reputation in terms of engineering expressed design, as foundational to quality of of materials and workmanship. The design 'arguably' improved on the Mauser 98 in terms of the 41xx series of Chrome Moly Steel in receiver, bolt and barrel. A standard high water mark of favored materials of its era and appreciated yet today. The Standard Stock was to me, frankly a bit "clunky" if the 'real deal' in quite decent wood. The Super Grade exuded what could be done and to my thinking and today, reflects a great "custom" workmanship of design capability!

The point here, is that both collector aura and custom gun potential arose with the justifiable "legend" in post '63 era times. Winchester 'stepping on its own organ', did much to promote the "Pre" aura by simple comparison of the "Post" aura. The end of the CRF which it so assertively promoted as suddenly "Poof!" So the CRF and the entire barreled action package became valuable. In conjunction was the growing collector dimension, but in origin really far more in the uncommon/ or more 'exotic' chamberings. The 30-06 and .270 were more the fodder of custom gun fanciers. Collectiblity goes hand in hand with rarity and chambering was a fundamental dimension. Of course too, the less common sub model iterations such as Target rifles of the various several flavors. So, the first "collectibles" in the Super Grade, sub-species and chamberings. The "custom: lines were outgrowth dimensions of the 70 action and there were plenty of those common chamberings as fodder for some damn nice guns.

So! My Thesis, that the "average" unmolested as collectible-defined" model 70 in the common chamberings, really are the "coat tailers" of the rarer chamberings as factually many truly quality customizations may well reflect greater actual value than a pure, but common, original 70 specimen wihtout greater "factory uncommon factors. Thus the example in this thread, to me factually exceeds the value of a very clean original "Standard '06" specimen. I'd take more pride in that Custom than in a "clean, original 'pre' Standard in '06!

Take the typical pre '64 in common chambering being fielded and condition reflecting, even as original, highest & best value may repose in the action component potential. Adding as afterthought one additional factor in the "Prewar & early postwar iterations particularly of no D&T & such tang style and lower SNs.

The Model 70 pre '64 aura is just that and where the rubber meets the road are the uncommon specimens and "nugget" actions where visionaries can tap such CRF potential for great custom rifles!

Whew! smile
Just my take! (& now to bed hazarding posting "unedited"... Oh my!)
Best!
John

John, the thread title is "pre 64-value". What dollar figure do you throw at this "specimen"?


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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iskra, I think you are right on . A well done custom pre 64 has more appeal to me than a run of the mill standard 06 or 270 .

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by iskra
I follow the lead, logic & expertise I'm reading here. Just to add my own spin. As noted the two "value" poles of the pre '64 Model 70 in collector context and in custom context. The Model 70 earned its reputation in terms of engineering expressed design, as foundational to quality of of materials and workmanship. The design 'arguably' improved on the Mauser 98 in terms of the 41xx series of Chrome Moly Steel in receiver, bolt and barrel. A standard high water mark of favored materials of its era and appreciated yet today. The Standard Stock was to me, frankly a bit "clunky" if the 'real deal' in quite decent wood. The Super Grade exuded what could be done and to my thinking and today, reflects a great "custom" workmanship of design capability!

The point here, is that both collector aura and custom gun potential arose with the justifiable "legend" in post '63 era times. Winchester 'stepping on its own organ', did much to promote the "Pre" aura by simple comparison of the "Post" aura. The end of the CRF which it so assertively promoted as suddenly "Poof!" So the CRF and the entire barreled action package became valuable. In conjunction was the growing collector dimension, but in origin really far more in the uncommon/ or more 'exotic' chamberings. The 30-06 and .270 were more the fodder of custom gun fanciers. Collectiblity goes hand in hand with rarity and chambering was a fundamental dimension. Of course too, the less common sub model iterations such as Target rifles of the various several flavors. So, the first "collectibles" in the Super Grade, sub-species and chamberings. The "custom: lines were outgrowth dimensions of the 70 action and there were plenty of those common chamberings as fodder for some damn nice guns.

So! My Thesis, that the "average" unmolested as collectible-defined" model 70 in the common chamberings, really are the "coat tailers" of the rarer chamberings as factually many truly quality customizations may well reflect greater actual value than a pure, but common, original 70 specimen wihtout greater "factory uncommon factors. Thus the example in this thread, to me factually exceeds the value of a very clean original "Standard '06" specimen. I'd take more pride in that Custom than in a "clean, original 'pre' Standard in '06!

Take the typical pre '64 in common chambering being fielded and condition reflecting, even as original, highest & best value may repose in the action component potential. Adding as afterthought one additional factor in the "Prewar & early postwar iterations particularly of no D&T & such tang style and lower SNs.

The Model 70 pre '64 aura is just that and where the rubber meets the road are the uncommon specimens and "nugget" actions where visionaries can tap such CRF potential for great custom rifles!

Whew! smile
Just my take! (& now to bed hazarding posting "unedited"... Oh my!)
Best!
John

John, the thread title is "pre 64-value". What dollar figure do you throw at this "specimen"?

And crickets chirp. Poor ol John must have had a long thanksgiving night.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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BSA, your objection here appears as my "conclusion(s) exceeding scope of the O/P's question". My response as analogy. That whether going to your doctor, auto shop or here, an "answer" to "Why do I hurt", Why doesn't my car run", or of "What's the value"; requires wider reference to provide a "meaningful" response! From there, the "opinion of value" to be derived. And explanation of such finding offering meaning of wider applicability I'm suggesting here, as arising to "theory". Donor pre '64 Model 70 of common chambering Standard Model, may well have a "higher value as better purposed" in casting off factory stock where committing the metal to a custom stock and other accoutrements du jour. This subject rifle achieving. The reference to coat tails, as common specimens 'being grandfathered' into a class of truly rare valued collector specimens of originality, condition, and specific characteristics more unique/lesser commonness. The term "pre '64 Model 70, as so sweepingly applied as to encompass the production era 'whole'. My contention that there's plenty of the '06 Standard Model to reduce their relative value to levels where its custom iterations of handsomeness and utility arising to greater value than a weak aura of the pre '64 term.

Gun value itself is a "conclusion", of which "use contemplated", giving essential context! Value for what purpose?

As far as basic relevance of question as needing "context"... Analogy: We're aboard in International Flight in air. You ask me the time. A further issue in "relevant answer"; as Time at point of origin, point of destination, or point at which were occupying at that very moment.
Also termed "relativity"! smile
My conclusion as my take!

Ta Da!
Best!
John

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Originally Posted by iskra
BSA, your objection here appears as my "conclusion(s) exceeding scope of the O/P's question". My response as analogy. That whether going to your doctor, auto shop or here, an "answer" to "Why do I hurt", Why doesn't my car run", or of "What's the value"; requires wider reference to provide a "meaningful" response! From there, the "opinion of value" to be derived. And explanation of such finding offering meaning of wider applicability I'm suggesting here, as arising to "theory". Donor pre '64 Model 70 of common chambering Standard Model, may well have a "higher value as better purposed" in casting off factory stock where committing the metal to a custom stock and other accoutrements du jour. This subject rifle achieving. The reference to coat tails, as common specimens 'being grandfathered' into a class of truly rare valued collector specimens of originality, condition, and specific characteristics more unique/lesser commonness. The term "pre '64 Model 70, as so sweepingly applied as to encompass the production era 'whole'. My contention that there's plenty of the '06 Standard Model to reduce their relative value to levels where its custom iterations of handsomeness and utility arising to greater value than a weak aura of the pre '64 term.

Gun value itself is a "conclusion", of which "use contemplated", giving essential context! Value for what purpose?

As far as basic relevance of question as needing "context"... Analogy: We're aboard in International Flight in air. You ask me the time. A further issue in "relevant answer"; as Time at point of origin, point of destination, or point at which were occupying at that very moment.
Also termed "relativity"! smile
My conclusion as my take!

Ta Da!
Best!
John

That is a "democrat" response, and not an answer. Christopher Wray, or Garland and Mayorkas level of answering a question, without answering said question. Thanks but no thanks. Any other takers here, that can actually give a good value and answer the OP's question?


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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It’s an $800 dollar barreled action; a $200 scope; and a stock that goes on eBay and fetches $200-$500. Stock doesn’t appeal to me even though it is well done; so I’m in the $1200 camp.

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