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And even though I was using a Leupold 1.5-5, 20 years ago, they don't compare to what a true LPVO is supposed to be, or at least to gain the most benefit from it.

You need the speed of a red dot which means as close to true 1x as you can get with a huge eyebox and a daylight bright, not just visible red dot. Then you need a little magnification that keeps that huge eyebox while keeping sharp focus on both ends. 1-4's were easy to arrange, 1-6's pretty much too but 1-8 and higher is where things get expensive and even then there are trade offs.

I based my choice on the SHTF truck gun but for a GP carbine, I'd go with one of my scoped guns.

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LPVO is a relatively new acronym and it sure easier to say and type than Low Powered Variable Optic.

We now have MPVOs so you guys need to add that to your shooting vocabluary.

Plenty of guys using a MPVO with a RDS either offset or PBed for their SHTF TG or their Recces and SPRs.

Good times. grin


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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Plenty of guys using a MPVO with a RDS either offset or PBed for their SHTF TG or their Recces and SPRs.

That was good......I think......having no idea what you meant. grin

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All this sounds pretty LBTQ()_*&_(*&_b to me


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Originally Posted by Sam_H
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Plenty of guys using a MPVO with a RDS either offset or PBed for their SHTF TG or their Recces and SPRs.

That was good......I think......having no idea what you meant. grin

Most definitely a classic Campfire rendition of The Jabberwocky by Lewis Carroll. Like the poem, I have no idea what is being said but the message is readily understood.

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piggy backed, or offset, mid power var optic, which makes some sense, I think PBed for me, I need to look into a mid power optic!


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Originally Posted by jimmyp
piggy backed, or offset, mid power var optic, which makes some sense, I think PBed for me, I need to look into a mid power optic!

Thank you.

Some of these FUDD boomers just don't know what's up with the kool kids.

I do think I am going to set up a MK18 with a Crane speced port for running MK318 and MK262 with a SSA-E or maybe the HSNM DMR. For sure need an A5 tube w/7 postions and the H6 buffer with a Green spring. I do prefer the ACS-L more than something like the CTR or B-5 but have to have the Mil Spec version.

I might skip clone correct and go to a 12.7 middy with a P&W mono core for a one stamp gun and an MLOK handguard.

LPVO for sure either way and has to be SFP and MOA because my pronouns are he/his/him.


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With astigmatism, doesn't much matter for me. It's LPVO or prism. The PA prism work for me but at only moderate ranges.

Ranges dictate which I choose, HD/chicken coop ranges, it's a 1x prism. Anything beyond 100yds it's a 3x or 5x prism.


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So I hesitate to post this as I might get called out, and someone get butt hurt, but an aim point, chromed Colt barrel, with xm193, bench rested is easy a 4-5 MOA gun for me, granted 20 of them will land in that 4-5 inches but its still 4-5 inches. Your eyes dictate the precision as to which you can see the red dot in relation to the target, and this is not match ammo, but what many people have a bit of. At one point in my life I could shoot better than that with iron sights on a Colt Match Target HBAR. I still shoot some red dots, as they are in fact handy, and fast for sub 100 yards, and I feel that I can improve things a bit using the flip up rear iron co witnessed with the FS, however its a bit slower.... OTOH I won't be buying any more of them unless as to John Burns comment regards a small red dot on a 2.5-10 or more power riflescope. So a general purpose rifle for me, would not be one with just a red dot.

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Originally Posted by jimmyp
So I hesitate to post this as I might get called out, and someone get butt hurt, but an aim point, chromed Colt barrel, with xm193, bench rested is easy a 4-5 MOA gun for me, granted 20 of them will land in that 4-5 inches but its still 4-5 inches. Your eyes dictate the precision as to which you can see the red dot in relation to the target, and this is not match ammo, but what many people have a bit of. At one point in my life I could shoot better than that with iron sights on a Colt Match Target HBAR. I still shoot some red dots, as they are in fact handy, and fast for sub 100 yards, and I feel that I can improve things a bit using the flip up rear iron co witnessed with the FS, however its a bit slower.... OTOH I won't be buying any more of them unless as to John Burns comment regards a small red dot on a 2.5-10 or more power riflescope. So a general purpose rifle for me, would not be one with just a red dot.

Calling you out for having the balls to post up what works for you. Dang good job!


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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This has been a great thread as I just ordered a little 10.5" 300 Blackout(it will used with a suppressor) and have been trying to figure out what optic to use with it.

I am clueless on this stuff so this was an educational read.


My use will be anything from just dicking around shooting gophers out to maybe 100 yards to actually practicing a little at close range 'self defense'.




Yes or no on this idea?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1024710580?pid=998234#reviews

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Originally Posted by SamOlson
This has been a great thread as I just ordered a little 10.5" 300 Blackout(it will used with a suppressor) and have been trying to figure out what optic to use with it.

I am clueless on this stuff so this was an educational read.


My use will be anything from just dicking around shooting gophers out to maybe 100 yards to actually practicing a little at close range 'self defense'.

Yes or no on this idea?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1024710580?pid=998234#reviews

The Sigs are good at the price point.

It's 2nd focal plane so you can use the reticle at low power without needing the illume which would be important for me. 1st focal plane in an LPVO really sucks at 1x unless there is a daylight bright dot.

There are a lot of decent LPVOs on the market.


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Originally Posted by SamOlson
This has been a great thread as I just ordered a little 10.5" 300 Blackout(it will used with a suppressor) and have been trying to figure out what optic to use with it.

I am clueless on this stuff so this was an educational read.


My use will be anything from just dicking around shooting gophers out to maybe 100 yards to actually practicing a little at close range 'self defense'.




Yes or no on this idea?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1024710580?pid=998234#reviews

If you're not in a big hurry, might want to check around a bit on that scope.................CameraLand has consistently had it cheaper than anyone else, though they are OOS right now.

Give them a call to find out when they'll get more.

We have a couple here & they work fine, ditto for the Vortex Strike Eagle for more money.

MM

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Originally Posted by SamOlson
This has been a great thread as I just ordered a little 10.5" 300 Blackout(it will used with a suppressor) and have been trying to figure out what optic to use with it.

I am clueless on this stuff so this was an educational read.


My use will be anything from just dicking around shooting gophers out to maybe 100 yards to actually practicing a little at close range 'self defense'.




Yes or no on this idea?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1024710580?pid=998234#reviews
I’m just gonna say I didn’t like the weight penalty on a short range gun (100 yards) that the 1-4 had. I quickly stuck a red dot on and moved the 1-4 on to something that could use the magnification. But my main objective was close range and keeping my SBR as handy as I could.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
But most will shoot a scope better at any range than a red dot, it’s hard to decide, speed or accuracy.

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You get both speed and accuracy with the right LPV setup. You also get the same with the red dot setup….the LPVO can extend your window over the dot, if you need. It’s more about setup, use, weight and size, than much speed or accuracy difference at short range. Versatility for longer range is what the LPVO gives. Speed at short range isn’t something a good LPVO setup has to give up to a dot, but there’s that perception.

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Thank you guys for taking the time to give even more advice, much appreciated!


I clicked on the cameraland link and it shows they have that optic in stock now?

So I went ahead and ordered it, seems like a helluva deal!



I have a Sig dot on a M400 Tread and if I don't like the LPVO I will swap them around and see how that works.

Thanks again.

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Perception equals reality…

All I know is I played with red dots vs LPVO’s on 22’s and shooting Steel Challenge matches. The timer doesn’t lie and red dots were always faster for me.

To each their own.

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I don't shoot like you guys but can certainly understand your point.


But I think for now it will be a fun setup with the scope and spring time gophers and maybe even a coyote. Totally new learning experience for me.



We'll see how the very inexpensive Sig scope does. It gets decent enough reviews that I couldn't resist. Not the best glass but I don't plan on shooting past 100-150 yards with this setup.

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I spent a fair bit of time using issued ACOGs, and red dots (EOTECH) while working overseas. Neither were ideal for situations and environments that were constantly changing. I ended up going with privately owned low powered variable scopes. Pretty much exactly what I had used and were totally familiar with from coyote/varmint/ small game hunting, where shots can be measured in feet to hundreds of yards.

Initially I used a 2-7 at one embassy where I spent a good amount of time either on the roof of the embassy or at another location where shots could be measured
in hundreds of yards.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Primarily we were looking for "spotters" and guys who were calling fire on us. The enemy finally received proper training and learned how to walk rocket and mortar rounds onto our location, so we would look for guys in building who during an attack may be watching and holding a cell phone, radio whatever.






Later, at other locations I ran a 1.5-5 illuminated Leupold. At that time using an LPVO was extremely rare to see. But it worked for me, and worked well. It allowed target discrimination, and as someone mentioned above, you could look "deep" into windows, or other places. You could see what a person had in their hands and see other details.
A good bit of time was spent in outer provinces where you could be in somewhat urban areas for part of the day, then out in wide open desert for the rest. Having an optic that was flexible to those changes was advantageous.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]



Normally I kept the gun on 1.5 x and shot it with both eyes open, just like a red dot. It was pretty quick, though not quite as fast as a true red dot or as good as todays true 1X optics, but at the time it was a very good piece of gear and even today I would not hesitate to use it on a carbine. When I needed to take a longer shot or take a good look at something, I simply dialed it up.



[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Today for an all around carbine, I would go with a compact 3x9 or 2.5-10 and put a mini red dot on top. That would give you a fairly capable gun. Yes, there is a trade off, as it won't be as light as running just a little red dot, but in terms of practicality, I will take a little bit more weight in the optic if it gives me better capability.


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One would think that the difference between low powered cross hairs and a dot or such is simply you haven't trained with one enough. The dot tends to show less wobble so to speak. But we were quick drill running a 4x yesterday with a cousins son, I could see the crosshairs moving to the target better and start the break earlier than I did with a dot.

That said the only way to know for each of us is to simply run something a LOT.

We settled on the Burris 332 or something like it years ago. Just keep adding to the stable with them as needed. Trying to keep all house and vehicle guns with the exact same optics and triggers.

Run what works is what I can say.

I certainly quickly dumped a dot in the woods after not being able to see detail enough to not realize vines and it cost me a wounded deer to a deflection... I suspect a LPVO would have made the difference. It was replaced by a 2.5x8.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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