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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Why are 410 shells so expensive? I know they are more difficult to load and I know they don't do the quanities they do of 20 and 12. I can buy 12 or 20 in top gun or gun club loads for $8.50/25 and 410 shells are $22/25. There's a lot more shot and powder in a 12 gauge load.
I've heard 410 cases are harder to make and I know they can be harder to load with shot bridging etc but the cost still seems like a bit of gouging. I used to pay $5 for 12 gauge trap loads and 410 3" were usually about $8. It seems like some money could be made on 410 ammo and I occasionally see some import stuff but what's keeping someone from starting to load and sell a bunch.
You can even buy empty hulls to load anywhere and its been that way for a few years. Seems like someone could get some Chinese plant to make them a bunch of hulls to sell to reloaders. People are getting them to make scopes the should be able to make some plastic hulls.
The new keltec ksg in 410 has me thinking.
Bb
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Joined: Apr 2017
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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12 ga is about 80% of the market, 410 is under 2%, maybe well under. Just the economy of scale to divide costs per shell between the two is an enormous difference. Add in that there is no separate line devoted to making each gauge so one would have to shut down a line for a high demand item to make a low volume item and then switch back. That is fairly expensive to do - I don't know the current cost but in 2006 switching just the bullet type in say a 30/06 from a 150 gr Nosler Partition to a Plain Jane 150 gr cup and core ran $17,000. $17,000 for every change adds up which is one reason there are often shortages of items in less demand.
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Joined: Aug 2021
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Campfire Member
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Before fall squirrel season. I loaded up 35 boxes of them. 3 inch with 5'and 6's. I squirrel crow and qauil hunt with one.
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Joined: Feb 2024
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2024
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I bought a MEC .410 loader and never looked back. I can Load 2.5" AA hulls for ~3.00 a box. The only issue I have is 3/4 oz wads for 3 inch shells are impossible to find as they sell a 5/8 oz wad that is short. Rich
You know you might be facing your doom if all you get is a click when you are expecting a BOOM !
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 874 Likes: 8
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The only issue I have is 3/4 oz wads for 3 inch shells are impossible to find as they sell a 5/8 oz wad that is short. Most 3" factory loads employ a 1/2 oz wad. That has alot to do with the pattern inefficiency of 11/16 and 3/4 oz .410 shells.. I've done alot of .410 patterning. By the time most 3" shell payloads reach just 10 yds there's only about 9/16 worth of Pb pellets in the useable pattern. It gets worse from there.
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Joined: Feb 2024
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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The only issue I have is 3/4 oz wads for 3 inch shells are impossible to find as they sell a 5/8 oz wad that is short. Most 3" factory loads employ a 1/2 oz wad. That has alot to do with the pattern inefficiency of 11/16 and 3/4 oz .410 shells.. I've done alot of .410 patterning. By the time most 3" shell payloads reach just 10 yds there's only about 9/16 worth of Pb pellets in the useable pattern. It gets worse from there. That is why I load mostly 2.5" hulls. I get a good pattern from them.
You know you might be facing your doom if all you get is a click when you are expecting a BOOM !
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,667 Likes: 67
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,667 Likes: 67 |
I bought a MEC .410 loader and never looked back. I can Load 2.5" AA hulls for ~3.00 a box. The only issue I have is 3/4 oz wads for 3 inch shells are impossible to find as they sell a 5/8 oz wad that is short. Rich How does it do with dropping shot? Does the shot bridge? I've heard anything bigger than 9s can cause problems in the 410 loaders. I'd like to be able to drop as big as #6s. If that's possible I'll get another mec. I have 2 sizemasters, one in 20 and one in 12 and a die set for 28. I love my sizemaster but fir a 310 I'd probably just get a 600 Jr because the 410 sizemaster doesn't have a primer feed anyways. I'm thinking about buying a ksg in 410 because I think my kids would love it. My 10 year old daughter is tiny weighing in at about 58 pounds. I think she'd love a 410 ksg and it could be her and my wifes home defense gun. Bb
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Joined: Nov 2019
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Campfire Regular
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How does it do with dropping shot? Does the shot bridge? I've heard anything bigger than 9s can cause problems in the 410 loaders. I'd like to be able to drop as big as #6s. Have a 9000. Even with #9s I make a habit of rapping the frame couple times after shot drop before fully lifting the handle for shell rotation. Used up to/including #8s. This hesitation also helps get a full powder drop (296). Found polishing the inside of the drop tube helped, as did scoring the bottom of the drop tube lip. Even so, think you'll be hard pressed to get trouble-free drops with US #6. Not saying don't try, but you'll have to go slow and be patient. Don't imagine you'd load #6 in high volume.
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Joined: Feb 2024
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Campfire Member
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I load #6 , 7.5 , 8 and shot bridging happens sometimes . I went with the plastic drop tube and that seemed to help lessen it. Slowly sliding the charge bar to drop shot seems to help. I have the MEC 600 Jr. so its easy to make sure since you load 1 at a time.
You know you might be facing your doom if all you get is a click when you are expecting a BOOM !
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1 member likes this:
lanenebraska |
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Joined: Apr 2017
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2017
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I bought a MEC .410 loader and never looked back. I can Load 2.5" AA hulls for ~3.00 a box. The only issue I have is 3/4 oz wads for 3 inch shells are impossible to find as they sell a 5/8 oz wad that is short. Rich How does it do with dropping shot? Does the shot bridge? I've heard anything bigger than 9s can cause problems in the 410 loaders. I'd like to be able to drop as big as #6s. If that's possible I'll get another mec. I have 2 sizemasters, one in 20 and one in 12 and a die set for 28. I love my sizemaster but fir a 310 I'd probably just get a 600 Jr because the 410 sizemaster doesn't have a primer feed anyways. I'm thinking about buying a ksg in 410 because I think my kids would love it. My 10 year old daughter is tiny weighing in at about 58 pounds. I think she'd love a 410 ksg and it could be her and my wifes home defense gun. Bb Burley boy, If one does the "tricks" described, you find #6 shot will bridge frequently, 7.5 will bridge less often, #8 will on occasion, and #9 rarely when using a single stage loader. This is due to SAAMI tolerances being +/- one shot size for a given size. As mentioned, slowly moving the bar back and forth with a single stage will lessen this tendency to bridge but not eliminate it.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 395 Likes: 2
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 395 Likes: 2 |
Ya know, I just gave up on trying to get 5's and 6's to work in my Mec. A 1/2oz of 5's actually works quite well for tree top squirrels without worrying about where the bullet will land.
I made a dipper from a 50 AE brass case, and soldered a small nail to the side. Slow, but effective.
Experience is what you get, When you don't get what you want ;-0
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,482 Likes: 33
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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The only issue I have is 3/4 oz wads for 3 inch shells are impossible to find as they sell a 5/8 oz wad that is short. Most 3" factory loads employ a 1/2 oz wad. That has alot to do with the pattern inefficiency of 11/16 and 3/4 oz .410 shells.. I've done alot of .410 patterning. By the time most 3" shell payloads reach just 10 yds there's only about 9/16 worth of Pb pellets in the useable pattern. It gets worse from there. I missed answering this somehow. Back when lead was legal for waterfowl, I learned to make shot wrappers from overhead projector sheets as part of making tight patterning loads. The last couple decades I've used the plastic sheets used for letter covers. One cut them into thin strips that would run from the bottom of the shotcup to the beginning of the crimp and just long enough to have a slight overlap in the cup. As an aside, the tightest patterning loads used just the over powder/gas sealing portion of the wad followed by fiber wads to adjust stack height and the shot wrapper, no plastic wad. This provided good gas sealing, better cushioning to prevent setback and the wrapper material was sufficient to alleviate bore scrub and did a very good job of containing the buffer. Those shells were time consuming and a pain to load and I'm glad I no longer chase that wisp of smoke. When the 3" wads for the 410 were discontinued, I switched to making wrappers to add to the shorter wads. I haven't made any wrappers in years as I found a couple bags of 3" wads for the 410 which makes reloading so much simpler.
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Joined: May 2023
Posts: 1,217 Likes: 20
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2023
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Hard to load, translates to loss in the loading process. The long skinny 410 tends to have a fair number of collapsed hulls during the crimping process. Each shell collapse takes time to clear, then the 410 shot shell must be broken down if you want to save the components after a wall collapse. You can load 28s all day long without a single problem, not so much with a 410.
“To expect defeat is nine-tenths of defeat itself. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is best to plan for all eventualities then believe in success, and only cross the failure bridge if you come to it." Francis Marion - The Swamp Fox
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 314 Likes: 4
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Joined: Jan 2022
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I was at my local annual gun show a couple weekends ago, there was lots of new 410 amo there for sale. Mostly 8 shot but a little 6. A brand name I have never seen. I was told it was made in Texas. It was selling fast, but not cheap. I’m Sitting on 10 boxes of factory federal and Winchester 6 shot. Mostly 3”.
Last edited by snoeproe; 05/18/24.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 30,820 Likes: 190
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 30,820 Likes: 190 |
Go on ammoseek to get the best deal on shells. I have enough hunting ammo for the duration, but buy a flat of target loads from time to time for 5-stand. 7 1/2 target loads do pretty well from my Henry SS.
I think the last flat I bought was about $140 or so. I’ve been given some shells and also bought some from a friend that gave up on the caliber.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 85
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 85 |
Funny that many of the 410 powders are available, 8 pounds of 296 delivered last week . 😀 Just not factory ammo. Also saw lil gun and h-110 in stock. For the $200+ I see off brand 410 ammo going for…. Glad I reload. AA and STS hulls are up there now too. Buy a couple flats when available and be your own factory.
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Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 106 Likes: 2
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 106 Likes: 2 |
Squirrel season just opened here. I have Mec 600 jr mark 5 410 3 inch. I loaded up 35 boxes 3 inch in 5 and 6's shot. I have a small screwdriver. I tap on drop tube. To get the shot to drop. I got a deal on 410 3 inch hulls. A large flat rate of hulls. Remington long range express 3 inch hulls. And Winchester super x 3 inch hulls. Box was pack full of once fired hulls. I paid 40.00 dollars shipped for them. I squirrel crow and quail hunt with a 410. I have a bunch of Remington clay and field 2.5 hulls. I bought to load a few of them also.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,667 Likes: 67
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,667 Likes: 67 |
Funny that many of the 410 powders are available, 8 pounds of 296 delivered last week . 😀 Just not factory ammo. Also saw lil gun and h-110 in stock. For the $200+ I see off brand 410 ammo going for…. Glad I reload. AA and STS hulls are up there now too. Buy a couple flats when available and be your own factory. I just picked up 8 pounds of lilgun for $179 locally. I use it a bit in pistols and have used it in 300bo but I bought it thinking I'll try to make a 20g steel and toss duplex load. Steel powder is impossible to find but I saw a few 20g steel loads that use lilgun. At that price I couldn't turn it down. Bb
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Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 106 Likes: 2
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 106 Likes: 2 |
I am using Alliant 410 right now. I been buying Alliant 300 mp 296 and Lil gun. To load in my 410 3 inch. The local Walmart has been getting 410 ammo in. Winchester 2.5 1/2 oz of 4 and 6's. I haven't bought any. I would have bought a few. If it been Winchester 3 inch. To have the hulls to reload.
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Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 30
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 30 |
Been loading my own 410 shells with 444 Marlin brass for years. The Marlin brass is 2.5 inches and can be reloaded many times.
No way I'm buying 410 shells at the prices they want. Plenty of info online about this.
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