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Received my new 16” upper the other day. Weight with a Romeo 5, no mag, was 6 pounds 13.9 oz. Switched to a Trijicon Credo HX 1-6 in a Burris P.E.P.R. mount using the ring tops with rail, and weight is 8 pounds 8.2 oz.

I really liked the way it felt with the Romeo 5 mounted, so the story ain’t over just yet.

Upper is an Adams Arms P2 piston, purchased on sale at $499, about half-price. Range tomorrow.


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Well, OK, then.

Just to clarify, are those weights the complete gun with lower, or just the upper?

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You have 3/4's of a pound in the mount, what'd you expect?

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Originally Posted by GreatWaputi
You have 3/4's of a pound in the mount, what'd you expect?

8.7 ounces actually. Scope weighs 18.9 ounces. Expected what I got, since I can do simple arithmetic. The effect on balance and handling is harder to predict, aside from the weight increase.

I’ll test accuracy with the scope mounted, then decide on how I leave it set up. The mount’s not true QD, but comes off pretty easily with a 1/2” driver, so swapping back and forth would be easy.


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Originally Posted by MontanaMan
Well, OK, then.

Just to clarify, are those weights the complete gun with lower, or just the upper?

MM

Complete gun, no magazine or sling.

Another sighting option on the table is a prism like one of the PAs, but I’m not crazy about the reticles I’ve seen. They are focusable and very rugged, and lighter than scopes, if less capable.


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I'd say it depends on what you want to do with it. If you want a short range, lightweight defense/hunting rifle then a dot is great. If you want something that has precision past 100 yards or so, then the scope makes sense. Most of my AR's have 1-6x or 1-4x LPVO's on them, but I've considered putting a dot on one with a 14.5 inch BCM upper. That setup would be great for home defense purposes.

I shoot a PCC (AR-9) with a dot regularly in action matches. It works great out to about 50 yards for me and that's the length of the action bays I'm shooting in. Younger guys with good eyes can make them work pretty well out to 200+ yards. But for me, a dot is for applications under 100 yards. YMMV.

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After raccooning* this carbine some more, I’m pretty sure I go with the red dot mainly, with the scope ready to mount if it looks like it’d be an advantage. Have a second upper with a 3-9 dialed in too, plus a Mini 14 with a prism, and even a .22 mag with a 1-4. Don’t quite trust that little mag to function quite yet, but those 30gr VMaxes at 2300 are no joke! I’ve fired a number of 1 1/2”-3” groups at 100 yards with red dots, on a compatible target, so feel good that far out.



*I used to say “coon-fingering” but morons with no knowledge of the language would think it was “Raschist”. 😜


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I have guns set up for different purposes. Most of my stuff is geared towards light weight. AR’s can be lighter but when you start adding things they have to bring something worth the weight cause it does add up.

As long as it serves a purpose, it don’t matter what it weighs. (to an extent)

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For complete versatility and target ID, I move away from RDSs. For general HD use, my pistols/SBRs, dots cover down. Weight isn’t a factor with the optic, to a point. It’s part of a ‘package’ for a certain criteria. Lighter mount, lighter barrel, lighter rails/stocks on a hunting rig? Sure….but going to a dot in a hunting or defensive rig for all ranges/use, over a # or less? Nope.

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There’s no doubt that a scope is more capable overall, which is why I have them on all my hunting rifles, even the very light ones; worth the weight for certain for that use. I really like that Credo 1-6 too. It’s got a great view and looking through it at 1x is nearly like going “bare”. Wish it had better battery life/management, but that’s an area all illuminated scopes fall short in, ones I’ve seen anyway. Eye relief is also good and pretty consistent, end to end through the power range.

Gonna try both options today and see what I like. I have a couple of weeks to play with this, then I’ll be out of action for a month while my new knee adapts to its new home, or so I’m told. One more thing to work out will be the sling setup, and a different stock is a possibility. That cheap Magpul rattles and grabs my facial hair. Already replaced the one on my other lower with a CTR; might try a fixed one on this. Need more mags too.

Thanks for all the input.


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To me the red dot is still faster, for sub 25 yard in a dark environment shooting.

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I’ve got lots of rifles for lots of uses. Don’t y’all? Set up one of each and use as you find best.

I have my SBR and M&P 15-22 with the same red dot for dedicated home/practice use inside 75 yards. Rifles with scopes for uses outside of that.


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Trijicon accupoint LPVO. Tritium and fiber optic illuminator so always illuminated and no need for batteries.

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I have a couple of those, 3-9s, on hunting rifles and they’re a favorite.

Yesterday I took my new carbine to the range and dialed it in with the Credo HX 1-6. Pretty much a two-shot process. Skipped the red dot as it was hot, the range busy, and I had other stuff to do.

A new 1x prism lands tomorrow, this one finally with a reticle I like, a simple dot with two concentric circles that don’t hide a bunch of the target and background with a lot of ranging clutter. Will come in at about a pound lighter than the scope setup, and I’ll keep the scope in the mount for quick swaps if needed.


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Understand the target ID argument, and the circumstances where that might be paramount. But I can ID and hit a coyote at 200 yds with a 2 MOA Micro. Weight, handling, and not suffering from being banged around are more important for me.

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I've got a Trijicon 3-9 Accupoint in the classifieds here that no one seems to want and I've got an extra ADM scope mount at home. I might just put it in the mount and use it on my night hunting gun, swapping back and forth with the NV scope.

But my guns with red dots are so equipped for a reason.

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The prism arrived early. Like it pretty well. It’s a Vortex Spitfire, the Gen 1 version. The reticle is well-designed, though I’d still prefer a slightly larger center dot. The glass is very clear, but I suspect it’s just a bit over 1x. Hope to get it out tomorrow and dial it in.

Rifle lost a pound compared to the somewhat heavy Credo, a welcome improvement in handling. Mounting is a bit more critical than a red dot, but I get a full view with it all the way back, and no interference with charging.


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Got the prism dialed in yesterday. That center dot looks a lot smaller on target than the advertised 3 moa. Pretty easy to center it up on a 3” dot at 50. The outer circle works for fast shooting, just put it over the target and squeeze. It just about would bracket a torso at 50 yards, similar to those horseshoes in other prisms. When I get back on my feet after surgery I’ll try it out at 100 and beyond on steel.

Pretty pleased with this setup at present, especially with the LPVO in reserve if needed. Weight at present with the prism, an empty mag, a steel QD swivel setup and a quality sling is 7lbs, 13oz, about as heavy as I want a defensive carbine.

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