Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Predators and Varmints 223, 22-250, or 204?

I know every body is thinking coyote hunting yet, but I'm getting the itch for a groundhog rifle.
I have 223 dies and brass from a Handi rifle I used to have, but never really learned to like. But I think the 223 in a savage with 1-9 twist would be the berries for groundhogs that I couldnt reach with my 22wmr and 17HMR. (I'm thinking maybe trying heavy bullets for deer someday)
Some folks say I'm nuts not to go with a 22-250 so I dont get "crawlers" past 250 yds.
Am I really going to see that much difference in the 22-250? I'm thinking the 22-250 is going to be louder and I already have dies for the 223.
And where would the 204 ruger fit in as far as effective range? And could I use my stash of 223 brass to make 204 shells?
I have a 257 roberts and even use my 30-06 loaded with 125 speer tnt for the long stuff, and that works well, but don't care for the recoil all the time.
thanks

You'll be hearin' alot of different ideas on this one.....not a bad thing, but many opinions.

My feelings.........a .223 is cheaper to shoot, considerably less recoil than the 22-250 and "crawlers" can happen at 50 yards......not the cartridges fault. Using the improper bullet can also get those results even with fairly good placement. I've found that 50gr. V-Max's are both very explosive and accurate. Placement is again important, but these V-Max's are a bit forgiving in that regard, not to the varmint however.

You've got the dies already, sounds like you may have ample targets (groundhogs)so an overall hunt will be cheaper and less abusive all around (not that the 22-250 is known for alot of recoil, but more than a .223, for sure). The 22-250 will reach out further than the .223, but only if you plan to consistently attempt shots from 375/400 on out........which won't likely be the majority of your shooting distances.

Sold my very much cherished and tuned 22-250 this last year for the very reasons I'm sharing with you here. When on previous prairie dog hunts, the recoil/muzzle jump was just enough to not allow me to see my hits/misses, which is the whole idea of this type of shooting. Tough to work your way into a 'dog at really long distances when you can't see where you're hittin'. And when you do make contact at whatever range, the results are totally worth viewing....IMHO.

As for the .204, can't speak to that as I don't own one, but my buddy does and he has had alot of fun and success with his. I don't use either the .223 or 22-250 for deer huntin', but others no doubt have, so I'll leave those suggestions and experiences for them to share.

Good luck....probably not a bad choice in the bunch, just some better than others......you get to sort that out.

.223 is damned tough to beat at it's own game.

The .22-250 is a bunch louder, and really only makes the difference when going long regularly.

The .223, inside 400, is near impossible to beat.

Trust me, I don't even like the .223 (prefer the .221 Fireball), and still can't keep myself from picking up the .223. Just 'cause it's that good at what it does.

I think the .223 is the way to go.

for Pdogs the 204 of a blast.

Spot

I have a 204, 4 223s, and 5 22-250s. For pdogs, I like the 204 if the wind isn't blowing too hard, but it is hard to beat a good 223 out to 300+/- yards.

Back in 10/07 I helped a guy get an economy model Stevens 200 in 223 zeroed and even with a Bushnell Sportview 3-9x he was shooting close to MOA groups with factory ammo and an untuned rifle.

If you're going to shoot heavier bullets, 60 grains +, it might be worth having the greater case capacity of the 22-250 to work with, but (again) the 223 works great with 50 and 55 grain bullets, so there you are. Since you have a 257 Roberts and a 30-06 to shoot deer with, maybe buying a 223 as a dedicated varmint rifle would be a good way to go.

Jeff

I like the .22-250. Nothing wrong with having a little bigger hammer....

I've been shooting a 204 for a couple years. I have several 223's, a swift, and all manner of 6mm's, but I don't have a 22-250. My groundhog hunting partner has a couple 22-250's.
Since getting the 204, the 223's haven't seen the light of day for groundhogs. The 204 shoots like a laser, compared to the 223's, and without the recoil of the 22-250's or the swift. You can see your hits with the 204, and with 40 grain bullets and reasonable shot placement, you won't have many crawlers out to 400 yards. The 204 burns less powder than the 22-250, and should be easier on barrels and with less noise,too.
I'm having so much fun with the 204 that the swift only comes out when the shot is well over 400 yards! Over 80 dead groundhogs taken with the 204 last year can't be wrong!
F1

+1

nothing wrong with a big hammer, but till you swing it 200to 300 times a day a 223 will still beat a 250 all day long. I have been shooting pds for a long time and nothing beats a 223 for economy and efficiency. But for effect well there are better for effect. Go with what you can afford and what is practical. Nothing wrong with going with the crowd. HAPPY HUNTING

But shooting 'chucks and pdogs are pretty different scenarios. When you shoot 'pdogs, you expect to shoot a couple hundred rounds per day. When you shoot 'chucks, you're shooting a lot fewer rounds per day. Even back in the late 1960s when few people hunted varmints seriously and I was hunting in MA, NH, NY, PA, and VT with my Father's crew of uber serious 'chuck hunters, I doubt that the group, as a whole, ever shot more than 300 rounds per day.

Jeff

thanks everybody for all the replies.
You've gone over a lot of the points that have been running through my head on this. I guess what it comes down to is this:
I know the 22-250 is going to do what I am looking for, no doubts.300-350 yds will do everything I need.
The question is really, can I do it with less noise, and also being able to spot my own shots with a sporter weight rifle is an issue. remember, if I have to, the 30-06 is there if I really need it.
The 223 is attractive because I have dies and brass, and its a lot easier to find a used rifle in 223 than 204.

1 deuce, your comments on the 204 are very interesting, I have had doubts that the 204 would be effective that far out on groundhogs. Of course I had doubts about the 17 hmr on groundhogs and learned it works better that it has any right to.
Any one else have experience with 204 on ground hogs? If it works well out to 350 yds I may seriously consider going that route.
Thanks for all the 223 comments too. That still is my first choice right now, just not sure how far I can push a 223.The Handi-rifle was never accurate enough to find out.
Dave

There's no way the .204, the .223, or the .22-250 WON'T work on groundhogs to 350. I regularly take groundhogs at that distance or a little further with a .221 Fireball; less powerful (and less noisy) than any of the three you are considering.

You can push a .223 on groundhogs further than 350, and likely further than you can reasonably shoot. Load 40 to 50 gr. V-Maxes or NBTs, and start shootin' ground griz to your hearts content.

Heck, whichever one puts the biggest stupid looking grin on your mug!! I must admit to being slightly amused seeing the guys talk about recoil in the 22-250. I been shooting my buffalo gun too much as my 22-250 feels like a 22 long rifle by comparison.

well ok eviltwin, point taken, maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into the 223.
They all gotta kick a lot less than the 30-06

I have two 22-250's a TAC 20, 3 .223's and 2 .222's. Having said that the 22-250's never go calling coyotes. It's always one of the others.

Considering ET's comment on 22-250's recoil, I agree the felt recoil is nil. The 22-250 does, however, have sufficient recoil to not allow you to spot your own hits, unless you have a muzzle brake and/or a very heavy rifle!
Sean's right, you can kill groundhogs farther than 350 with all three cartridges in question. I've killed a couple this past summer at over 500 with the 204, but I've had a couple crawlers at ranges over 375 that I probably would not have had with the swift, or a 6mm. The difficulty with the 223 is hitting your target at extended ranges. It's greater trajectory curve makes range estimation much more critical, than with the 204 or 22-250. Remember too, that because the 223 starts slower, with a lower BC, that it will run out of gas quicker at the longer ranges than the 204 with a 39 or 40 grain bullet.
In summary: The 204 will shoot as flat, or flatter than the 22-250, with less noise, and you can spot your own hits. The 40 grain 20 caliber bullet will hit the target with less authority than the 55 grain 22 caliber bullet, but you won't see it happen.
As for the 223, compared to the other two, it's ok if you like playing the lob..... and you might see some of your hits.
Buy all three!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1D

Have several of all three mentioned, and I use a 223 by far the most.

If you want a reall winner build a fast twist 223AI, they IMO are the king of the ring.

I am a 250 man. If I am hunting for furr though will drop down to 17 and sometimes the 204. For contests and dropping things dead I always go with the 250

1 duece, your building a good case for the 204, in my opinion. I hunt groundhogs alone mostly and seeing the bullet strike is a big plus, one reason I love the 17 hmr. I picked up a old 17-223 last year with that very thing in mind, but the thing weighs 15lb but I walk a lot, so it never went out again. Live and learn I guess.


I could rebarrel that to 204, but it has a big Fajen target stock, and I was hoping for something lighter. It sounds like the 204 would work great, with little muzzle jump, in a standard sporter weight rifle. (I wont say recoil in reference to a 22 cal again!)


For all its capability somehow the 22-250 isn't really appealing to me at this point.

I have a few months before summer, so I'll print this thread out and mull over every bodies comments for a little.I'll probably change my mind 10 times before I buy anyway.

Well thanks again everybody for all the input