Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Cheapest AR Thats'..

5×5

That's my requirement, MM.

All else is gravy.

Note that the OP said that his sister was looking for an AR to use for home defense. What other people do is of little interest to me, but I wouldn't bet my future freedom by shooting at someone who is 100 yards away from my home. Shooting someone in a home defense scenario, would typically assume that person who was shot had broken in to the home and by doing so posed a threat to the people who were legally entitled to be inside of that home.

I'm the only person who I know who has actually shot an armed home invader. I didn't kill the person, but I did shot much of his right arm off below the elbow. I might have actually saved his life by putting a tourniquet around his right bicep. If I had it to do over, I wouldn't provide that first aid and would let whatever was going to happen happen. After he had been convicted of multiple felonies, he sued me in civil court, charging that I used excessive force in defense of myself and my family. He lost the case, but it cost me over $10K out of pocket to defend myself.

Yes, if you are being shot at from 100 yards away, then shooting back would be self defense. But you are always going to judged based on the reasonableness of your actions.

The original example of shooting at someone 100 yards away from your house - who is not yet shooting at you - would be a very troubling self-defense case. You would need to provide some compelling background facts to justify shooting the person in that situation. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but you would have to explain your thought process and that would have to be a justification that made sense to a reasonable person in your situation.

Edit - if you ever find yourself in a self-defense situation, I recommend letting your lawyer explain to the cops why it was self-defense. At most, I would never say more than, "I was acting in self-defense. If you have further questions, I will exercise my 6th Amendment right to speak with my lawyer before answering any further questions."

There plenty of people around who've shot people with 5.56. Even in this thread.

On the subject of inexpensive but reliable AR, any thoughts or information on Radical Firearms out of Texas?

The standard at least here is,
"Reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury to oneself or another." Searous bodily injury I'd disabling or life changing, broken bones can be considered serious bodily injury.


You have to convince a jury of that.

It gets tricky.

If you are a 24 year old 6'3" MMA fighter, reasonable fear can be different than for a 66 year 5 foot nothing woman.

As above, criminally it depends on the cops and even more so the DA.
They can prosecute, or not, damn near anything they want. (Trump!)

As 260 posts,
It's a 2 part legal system. If the cops and DA slap you on the back and buy you a beer, the czhitbird you shot can still sue.
And unless it's completely stupid, it will proceed. And even if you win you will have $5-10000 in lawyers fees. Probably $5k minimum to hire the lawyer, even if he gets it fixed in a couple weeks without a trial.

Junk

PSA has a blem kit for $299 this weekend.

This is the applicable code for self-defense in WV. Pretty reasonable, I think, and the justifiable use of proportional force under it is a complete and total defense against any civil action brought by the assailant.


Relevant West Virginia Use of Force Statutes

55-7-22. Civil Relief for Persons Resisting Certain Criminal Activities

(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using reasonable and proportionate force, including deadly force, against an intruder or attacker to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder’s or attacker’s unlawful entry if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder or attacker may kill or inflict serious bodily harm upon the occupant or others in the home or residence or if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder or attacker intends to commit a felony in the home or residence and the occupant reasonably believes deadly force is necessary.

(b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder or attacker in the circumstances described in subsection (a) of this section.

(c) A person not engaged in unlawful activity who is attacked in any place he or she has a legal right to be outside of his or her home or residence may use reasonable and proportionate force against an intruder or attacker: Provided, That such person may use deadly force against an intruder or attacker in a place that is not his or her residence without a duty to retreat if the person reasonably believes that he or she or another is in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm from which he or she or another can only be saved by the use of deadly force against the intruder or attacker.

(d) The justified use of reasonable and proportionate force under this section shall constitute a full and complete defense to any civil action brought by an intruder or attacker against a person using such force.

(e) The full and complete civil defense created by the provisions of this section is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing or escaping from the commission of a felony;

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself herself or another with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant; or

(3) Otherwise initially provokes the use of force against himself herself or another, unless he or she withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

(f) The provisions of this section do not apply to the creation of a hazardous or dangerous condition on or in any real or personal property designed to prevent criminal conduct or cause injury to a person engaging in criminal conduct.

(g) Nothing in this section shall authorize or justify a person to resist or obstruct a law-enforcement officer acting in the course of his or her duty.

Good advice, and something for people to definitely think about.

other than maybe triggers, we are at the point with AR rifles where "parts are parts". It does not cost much to assemble a pretty decent rifle these days. I recently put together one with PSA upper and lower, a good BCG and a Romeo 5 dot sight. It performs well.

Palmetto

I do not believe “parts is parts” any more now than I did 20 years ago.

Receivers are either in spec or out. PSA has been pretty good, out of the 3 Anderson receivers I have, 2 have tight magwells.

But as always, start with a properly gassed, decent barrel and a good bolt in a well made carrier and that’s a good place to start. Add a good trigger and things just keep getting better.

Everything else is just fluff.

Everyone seems to have a different opinion of "good enough".


I will spend big money on guns, ammo, and training because I value my life and that of my family. You won't catch me or any of the instructors in my classes using PSA, BCA, Anderson, or any of the other low tier brands.


If you are going to rely on it, you need to spend like you will rely on it.

I have complete Colt guns and have had fancy stuff from Noveske, DD, BCM and others.

I do have one PSA upper, not their cheapest stuff but for a chrome lined blaster, it has been flawless. Gassed better than the DD, LaRue and Noveske barrels I’ve had. I’ve got a couple of Anderson lowers that won’t drop an empty Pmag but BCM had the same problem…

I’ve vetted everything in my safe and I no longer trust brand names to mean anything.

Ya, Paul MIGHT be right for once. 😜. I put together two SBRs like that - one in 5.56 and one in 300 BO. Given that the were 10.5” and 11.5” I though it better to just buy complete uppers rather than fudd around with trying to get them gassed right (I’m a rookie at this AR schitt!). It was pretty affordable too. I dropped Rise triggers in them ((also on sale at PSA) and topped them both with Burris 1-6 scopes.

I have supressors for both of them and believe it or not, they are 100% legal. I might end up installing adjustable gas blocks, but that will be a single adjustment instead of not knowing what variable to start with.

!

I kind of like my evil friend! I would turn to him in a heartbeat and there is always refuge in ID!

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

Expensive does not necessarily = relaible.

And cheap(er) does not necessarily = unreliable.

Actually far from it.

MM

I can pull a truck with whatever rope I have in the bed of the truck.

But if I’m going to rappel off a cliff I might want something that’s been qc’d and tested.

What solgw, Colt, BCM, lwrc, knights, LMT and others i’m forgetting, bring to the table that a lot of manufactures don’t do is QC and QA on parts.

I’d say a complete H&r Lower and Blem bcm upper is my pick for long term good value build.

But a colt stripped 6920 is never a bad call. Or a police trade in if your on a tight budget.

Spending like you rely on it doesn't mean throwing dollars at the most expensive unit. Just like buying trucks, houses, or anything else that is a major purchase, research research research.