Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 375 on Cape

Northforks have a good reputation too. I haven't tried them since they still make Swifts...sorta.

I posted elsewhere on the Campfire fairly recently about this:

Have hunted a LOT with Kevin Thomas, and during one of our around-the-campfire conversations once asked him about what he considered the minimum Cape buffalo cartridge for "sport hunters." He was very intrigued with the question, and started to think about it. After 2-3 minutes I thought he might have forgotten my question--but then he said, "The .30-06." And then he told me why, describing his experience with the .30-06 and 180 Partitions on over 500 buffalo.

One of his friends back then was also a "culler," who hunted buffalo both to reduce their numbers but to provide meat to several local ranches for their workers. He used the 200-grain Partition, partly because (like the 180 Kevin used) it didn't usually exit when shooting in herds. Both are are detailed in Kevin's excellent book There's Something About Buffalo, published a decade ago, and available through his website, kevindthomas.com.

They're also available through amazon.com and thriftbooks.com.

John (Muledeer), to answer your question about Saeed’s bullets exiting, he changed the design some years ago to limit penetration, with a larger and deeper nose cavity, so that they seldom exit. He’s told me the early designs exited more often than they liked so he changed them to where they stay in a buffalo most of the time now. The front portion does tend to shear off pieces and Alan Vincent has told me it’s surprising how often they find those small pieces that did major damage, much like a Cutting Edge raptor is designed to do. They’re very effective bullets. I’ve looked at lots of them and they look like terrible but most were recovered from dead buffalo.

To respond to our resident bigot, Windridge, he very rarely ‘mucks up’ any shot. I’ve spent a ton of time with the Vincent’s over the last 41 years and his shooting is a topic that’s been discussed plenty. Both Roy and Alan have told me he’s an incredible game shot, by far the best they’ve ever seen. IIRC, Alan told me that they’ve only lost 1 or 2 buffalo out of the hundreds he’s shot with them over the last 42 years of hunting together. And as to your comment about him hating America, you obviously don’t know him. He likes America and Americans, but does loathe our politicians. He has many American friends, and I’m glad to be one of them. I know him pretty well and he’s a true friend to those he likes, very generous and has quietly done significant things for those around him that have improved lives in meaningful ways. You obviously don’t know him and I do resent the derogatory name you used for him. I’ve enjoyed sharing a campfire with him, but doubt I would with you.

Yes, Saeed posts a some spicy comments about American politics on the Political Forum on AR. ( Can't blame him! ) I just take him as a high energy guy having fun stirring the pot for a little excitement.

After all, it is his work and costs that created and maintains the forum. I am grateful that he does it.
He has always been very responsive and helpful on the guns and hunting topics. I have learned a lot from him. He inspired me to study mono bullets which led me to connecting with B&M Cartridges and Rifles. That's how I came to hunt buffalo with Cutting Edge Bullets, one of the best moves that I have made in buffalo hunting. Enough said.

About the 375.
Saeed's success with the 375 say a lot about the caliber. Find a way to run the 375 HH a little faster with an excellent bullet and you have a great Buffalo Killer. Reduce the velocity and use mediocre bullets and it is a different story on buffalo. It's a cartridge on the margin. Brian

Thanks CAelk…

My limited experience on buffalo with the 37H&H: The first was in the Klasserie (borders Krueger) I had been using X bullets in my other hunting rifles but since I was only taking 1 rifle was concerned about copper fouling of the old X bullets and so having read all I could find I loaded down Speer African Grand Slams to 2400fps (per Kevin Robertson's advice)and they were ineffective. The problem wasn't with the bullets or the advice, it was a combination of lower velocity and bullets that upset quickly that led to lack of penetration. I was thoroughly convinced that buffalo really were bulletproof. Lesson learned!
A few years later I hunted the Selous where I had 2 buffalo on license and used the Woodleigh 350 grain PP's. They had a marked effect on the buffalo and there was no drama. (They also worked well on various other game including a wildebeest at 350 yards.) If I ever get to go again, the 270 gr TTSX will be my bullet of choice IF they shoot decently in my 375.
BTW I left accurate reloading some years ago because I didn't appreciate Saeed's lack of understanding of certain American politicians.

Blacktailer, That Klasserie area is one of my favourite spots. Brian

And to think Selous was whacking buffalo (and elephants) with his Boer 4 bore muzzle loader with excellent result!

I enjoy reading about African hunts and guns to take even though I’ll never get there. I bought a used 700 Custom, 375 H&H and although it turned out to be a 375 Weatherby, the biggest game it will ever take is a big whitetail, most likely with a 235 Speer.
MD, et al, it’s nice to hear different opinions on guns and ammo from pros that deal with this every day.

After two trips to Africa and one to the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and me being fortunate to attain the age of 82, I think my 375 H&H is largely retired. If I hunt with it again, it will be for whitetails on my Mississippi property with a 235 Speer. I have the load worked up.

Ain't nothing wrong with using a 375 on a deer.

McCray, I agree. Decisive kills appeal to me. Choose the right bullet of minimal meat damage and away you go.

Brian,

Had almost weaned myself from this thread. But would like to know the specific bullets you consider "mediocre."

John

Here comes the Rant!

First of all, I don't answer that question on forums any more due to the hysterical push back it generates.

For example there are esteemed buffalo hunters on AR and AH that would use Hornady DG bullets ( Not the new ones) for cape buffalo. You could sometimes see them shooting buffalo on YouTube videos. They would hit a Cape buffalo 2-5 time, hard in the chest, with a With a Hornady 500 NE bullet and it would still run for a hundred yards or more. They think that's how it is supposed to be.

The shooting and hunting sport and business is infested with 'Learn proof" people. ( For example many people think the 375 HH is a first choice for killing cape buffs. Why? Usually because they are afraid of the recoil of a decent big bore. The 375 works but it is not the first choice, it is the last choice.

Another example is that many people choose to hunt cape with mediocre bullets. ( That's just plain ignorant and dangerous. Why do they do it? Because the inferior bullet are well marketed with big picture ads and supported by gun writers who have bills to pay.)

Here is the skinny on best buffalo bullets;

- They cost more, probably raise the cost of your $15,000 buffalo hunt a coupe of hundred bucks including load development.

- Softs must have straight line deep penetrating, controlled predictable expansion and good retained weight.

- Solids must have deep straight Line penetration and most importantly have a flat wide nose design, construction. ( like Hydro bullets and CEB #13 solids, and others ) that caused the soft meat tissue to cavitate around the bullet thereby causing a larger, non collapsing wound channel and the above mentioned straight penetration. ( Research/testing of the last decade has proven that round nose solids don't always penetrate straight. Actually, Elmer Kieth proved it decades ago with his Hard Cast Kieth Bullet.)

- Larger diameter of the bullet the better.

- Good bullets save lives and injury .

End of rant.


I apologize for cutting loose like this, but "bullets for buffalo" is something that I have studied well and have some experience with. (Also, I obvious have some strong feelings about people getting hurt by large bovines.)

I have learned this stuff from thoughtful hunters and innovators like Michael of B&M rifle and cartridge and his ilk, who have actually figured it out, and from a bit of my own experience.


I just mean the best for my fellow hunters. Brian

So would be be willing to answer a question that doesn't require specific bullet answers? What do you consider "good retained weight" for softs?

Yes, the effect of flat-nose solids has been known for quite a while, but "cup point" bullets also penetrate straighter--and increase cavitation.

Mule Deer , Thanks for the post and how to buy P.H. Kevin`s book called : There`s something about buffalo , also about him killing all those buffalo with a 30 caliber , a P.H. when i was in Africa tried to tell me his SxS 45-70 was a good buffalo rifle i told him yes maybe at close range but i would have more faith in my 300 Win. mag. with much better accuracy using Nosler Partitions if i ever went Buffalo or just use my 375 H& H. > and NO i have never hunted Cape Buffalo yet but maybe someday ? there has been some very interesting posts on this site. thanks to all, Pete53

Steve,

One of the things I haven't mention so so far is that LOT of PHs I've hunted with other than Kevin Thomas have used typical "deer-elk" cartridges from the 7x57 up to the .300 Winchester Magnum to take a bunch of buffalo.

Have mentioned the late Paddy Curtis before, who believed the .375 was the perfect "visitor's" round for anything larger than "plains game," including elephant. When I hunted with him in Tanzania in 2011, his son Sean (then a 17-year-old about to start college) accompanied us, partly because he wanted to PH some as well. He'd just taken his first bull buffalo--with a .300 Winchester Magnum and a 180-grain Barnes TSX. Which went the typical 50-or-so yards before keeling over from a double-lung shot.

One of the PHs I hunted with on that same 3-week safari carried a .500 Nitro Express double rifle as his buffalo back-up--but he also had a Remington 700 ADL in 7mm Remington Magnum that he'd killed far more buffalo with. Again, like Kevin Thomas and his .30-06 with 180 Partitions, he'd had no problems with double-lung shots.

Mule Deer , thanks for mentioning the buffalo that are shot with smaller cartridges like the 300 Win. mag too.

The only problem with the 300 Win mag is its’s illegal in all African countries for buffalo. On a private game ranch you could probably get away with it but not in a government concession. Like a lot of cartridges, a double lung or heart shot will definitely kill a buffalo.

T, I have very few short barreled rifles. A 7mm-08 and .300 Savage. I seldom hunt with either any more. My .375 has a 25 in. barrel, but if you can lay hands on a little book called 60 years with Rifles by Paul Mathews he talks quite highly of a shorter 375 barrel. As far as blast, I remember he put about 6000 rounds through that rifle. Some were cast. He bought a std modle 70 in .375 H & H and after a time had the barrel cut off and recrowned. He had it cut just behind the front sight ramp. I think it came out to 21 INches. He has passed on, but he seemed to love that rifle.