I need Guns:<P>Check out <A HREF="http://www.ballisticproducts.com." TARGET=_blank>www.ballisticproducts.com.</A> It is pretty much the holy grail for long range, waterfowl type shotgunning loads. I haven't personally reloaded any 3 1/2 inchers since I have been able to buy some decent steel shells in that grade on closeout a couple of times, and have not felt the need.<P>Wall:<P>You are right about steel and lead, and you are also right that steel kills them dead, it is not worse at closer ranges, just different and probably a little tougher to shoot as well, due to less pattern stringing and denser shot clusters. But it will cripple badly if you don't center the bird. I always carry a handful of the cheap, smallest steel shot size I can find for cripples. Head shots are about the only way with steel with a duck on the water. Since, worse luck, I am dogless at this time, if his head comes up, I shoot him again, right then.<P>Check out the site above, they have a new product out, called hevi-shot, should be absolutely wonderful for long range shooting.<BR>Heavier than lead, with less deformation, reports extremely good pattern density at much longer ranges. I haven't tried any yet, but certainly will this fall in Canada when duck season rolls around. Only 4 months now, Ha.