Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Sir Darryl,
Teasing Sir Jerry like that is mean.

Sir 450Fuller,
You are grandfathered into Square Table Knighthood for your custom Mauser 458 WM ownership, even if you let it go down the road ?

Faulty factory ammo: It happened in a supply chain based on Democrat principles, no doubt.
Anyone who used handloads never had a problem unless they stored the ammo on the dash of the bakkie for more than one season in Africa.

Bullet technology is the greatest improvement lately.
Powders have improved too.
The light and lively .458 WM punches way above its weight class nowadays.

On a different tangent, James Watts claimed he invented the 450 Alaskan, showed it to Johnson of the Kenai
while he was in the neighborhood building roads and bridges on the Sterling Highway, etc.
Similarly Watts claims to have invented the .416 Taylor, and the idea was passed from Jack O'Connor to Mr. Chatfield-Taylor.
That James Watts was something else, a school teacher gone rogue !

How is the 450 Fuller different from the 450 Alaskan ?

Hopefully all will be forgiven if I can ever find one in the correct caliber.

Good questions, RC. But first, Harold Johnson had his shop at Cooper Landing, AK. in the 1950s.
A WWII Marine, he had close calls with bears and decided to do something about it in his shop, JKR-Johnson's Kenai
Rifles. 45-90 brass was not available, and he wanted something a little better than the 45-70. The 348 case was based on the
50 Win , so it was a nice platform and strong. The original 450 AK has about a 25 degree shoulder angle while later
JKR gunsmith Bill Fuller made his own version with 16 degree angled shoulder. Both are bottleneck cases, but the Fuller
feeds like butter in the old M-71.
I reload for both, and it does lend confidence when crawling around in the alders or devils club next to salmon streams.
They are close: the 450 Fuller cartridge will safely fire in the 450 Alaskan. With 400 gr Hawk or bonded Kodiak AK Bullet works bullets,
the cycle rate of the 450s in putting out accurate lead is amazing. Faster than any bolt action on target. As Elmer Keith so wisely
put it, dangerous game gets really dangerous when it's close. And wounded mad.

I do like that MN. Dakota in .416, however. Used to have one by Sterling Davenport.

Fo'sho !
And the 2025 GUN DIGEST is out.
Article by Phil "458win" Shoemaker:
"Guns of the Alakan Guides: When failure is not an option"
It's HUGE.
New ideas applicable to McGee Paladin,
fo'sho !

Sir 450Fuller,
Enaa Baasee' for clarification of my sometimer's recollection on the 450 Fuller distinction. Makes good sense.
That is the one to have, 450 Fuller.
Didn't take Harold Johnson long to move onto the .50 Alaskan, eh ?

PO Ackley goes into interesting detail on both 450s-in his Vol. 1.

Fred Huntington (RCBS) was Johnson's bear hunting pal in Alaska and got one of the first Fiftys-
I owned one for awhile, but its accuracy was not impressive. So, off it went to Kodiak Island for a guide to use.
I occasionally shoot distant shots with the 450s.

Johnson's original barrel came from a USAAF .50 cal M-2 turned down and re-chambered. He used re-cut down 50 cal AP-MG bullets at first.
Penetration was great, so he reported. I bet they were.
That 50 of mine would have been great for anything within 20 yards or 50 feet. Both of them preferred the 450s unless Johnson was guiding hunters.
Didn't want to get sued by angry widows.

I know Phil and Taj Shoemaker. We have mutual friends in Alaska.

Never judge a book by its cover (6.5 Weatherby Man Bun):



Very good stuff in this book, Phil Shoemaker pp. 176--185:
"Guns of the Alakan Guides: When failure is not an option"
Page 181:









No reports of Ruger M77 MKII/Hawkeye rifles jammed by ham-handed operators were found therein.
That rifle make appears to be quite popular in Alaska.
Phil's concluding sentence:

"If there is a singular fact that I can address
about the rifles chosen by successful guides over the past century,
it would be their rugged and reliable simplicity."

First rate article!

I have high hopes the rifle Phil is carrying this year will be on next years cover. I have been told Phil will be writing another article for Gun Digest at some point later in the year.

I will have one on Big Nan, the rifle Hal Waugh , Alaska’s first master guide, carried during his career
It’s a 1947 M70 Win that began life as a 300 H&H supergrade that Hal sent to Weatherby to install one of their 375 Weatherby barrels
After Hal passed in the early 1970’s the rifle went to the UAF museum in Fairbanks and was on display in the foyer in front of a massive full mounted Kodiak brown bear . It was eventually reclaimed by its owner, who had purchased it from Hal’s widow and this year I was given the privilege of hunting with it . I carried it for two spring brown bear hunts And two fall moose hunts . fortunately I only used it to stop one charge
I will have the rifle at the annual APHA banquet on display and will regretfully be returning it to its owner
Gun Digest has asked for a full length feature for next year

Yes Sir, scar on top of scars, all good, sounds liek you have the Hammer pistol bullets well covered as well, good works Sir.

Very nice, Thank you Sir, but, after having a first year 1956 model 70 African in my hands and being completely floored at how trim and light it was, i was then hooked on clean quick pointability, meaning a Dakota 76 will have to be standard floor plate, mag capacity, less bulk, weight and just plain cleaner looking to me.

If a man can't get out a gate at the rodeo arena in 4 rounds i dont know if 5 or 6 will do any good at that point, I'm in serious trouble along these lines, just picked up a cherry 1959 model 70 Alasakn in 338 Win Mag, again floored by the clean slim lines of the build and light weight of the rifle, it's the second best feeling pre-64 I've ever had in my hands save the 1956 African, i can quickly see this 338 being a top favorite hunting rifle from here on out, i ran an old standard load through the Garmin last week, 12 fpd e.s., that load is with the 250gr partitions, they clocked 2728 fps av, that'll do.

One of the reasons for posting the link to that rifle above was that Westley Richards has basically the same rifle in their inventory for $8,500. that's a bit of a step up from $3,899 so it made the Cabela offering seem like the better deal. I just wanted my fellow big bore fans to be aware of its existence on the off chance someone was looking for a larger caliber rifle.

https://www.westleyrichards.com/usedguns/view/rifles/1699310665-dakota-arms--416-rigby-m76-african/

Oh yes Sir, hell of a bargain price on that 416 Rigby, I'd measure the available walnut to work with and if enough get rid of that ridiculous red recoil pad with giant spacer's and replace with a nice red old English decelerator, 350gr TSX/TTSX and BBW#13 flat nosed solids of the same weight at 2750 fps and you'd be set for the world.

Speaking of bargains, the yank out at Connecticut Shotgun has a VERY nice first year African, best shipped price last time we spoke was 11K, too high, 72archer has another one, it lost it's original recoil pad, plus someone let the stock screws get loose, the crossbolt has been kicked rearward in it's mountng holes in the stock, most surely cracked, 8K, again, too high.

Both rifle are on Gunsinternational.

BTW, if not looking for a mighty 458 WM I'd have bought that 416 Rigby in less thasn a heartbeat the first time you posted the link, bet it's gone today!

That will be a good one, no doubt.
Phil and Big Nan dance with charging Brownie.
I must confess Phil has been an influence on my rifle aesthetics since about 1984 when I finally got wind of his published literature.
Might be why I was so hot to arrive in Alaska myself in 1985.
I'd still be there if southern belle wife with Raynaud's syndrome wasn't at risk of losing fingers to frost bite.
At least I was able to squeeze 5 years out of the Great Land. She suffered that long.
After 49 years of her putting up with my suffering, over her suffering, I think I have earned a Brown Bear Hunt.
5-year waiting list, eh ?
Maybe a cancellation eh ?

Indeed a unique rifle at a bargain basement price.

There is Iron in your words Sir Jerry.
I am getting the drop box off of Freki the FN Mauser.
Maybe the NEAR MFG rail too.
Will see if I can make the pregnant box work on the .458 WinRuger,
a miscarriage that was forced by a ringed chamber in an otherwise lovely Whitworth .458 WinMag.
Might hold 3 down with that, in a .458/.416 Ruger Mauser.
I had that Sunny Hill gloss blued finally, should blend in OK on a factory blued barreled action.
Only question is will I bite the bullet for a proper drop belly, maternity, walnut stock to go with it ?
Wood this undo the abortion ?









I say goodbye to that. Freki says "Prego." She is going on a diet.

Contacted Mark Penrod of Penrod Precision, for pantograph script engraving
on the "McGee Paladin .458 WM+ 09/2024" barrel marking.
He is actually a year or two younger than me.
Can't say when he is retiring.
Will get in line before he retires, not soon, I hope.

Her is the Zytel stock that is getting a Shoemaker Torch Rail added to the left front tip. Genius !



Pictured above is with a #5-1/2, 25" Shilen, .458 WM Ruger MK II.
African rear sight and 3/32" silver bead with a fold-down "moon bead."
Should be close to a drop-in fit for the #5, 21" McGowen.