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Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by NMiller
Dang, playing dead for that long would take nerves of steel.

My favorite bear story is Gene Moe. 69 yo badass that punched a bear in the nose and broke his neck. I think he stuck a knife in his neck a few times and was digging it around, they figure he must have done enough damage that when he punched it the neck broke.
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gene's story is a great one, but none of the elements other than name, age, and badass status exist in your translation!

He did not break the bear's neck, let alone by punching.
He did not stab the bear in the neck.

The story has been posted here many times.

Here's the link to the story, it mentions stabbing the bear in the neck several times, and "lethal punch had finished breaking the vertebrae" , but possible that's not accurate. Maybe you were there?


https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/larry-mueller-and-marguerite-reiss/2007/09/last-stand/

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Most copper plated and nickel plated shot these days is just a wash and adds very little to the hardness of the shot. There used to be exceptions.

The best penetrating buckshot load ever made, IMO, was the Remington Premier Magnum XR nickel plated. Not made anymore, but I've preserved some from when I stocked up in the late 80s. These pellets measure a tad over 00 diameter and appear to have a fairly substantial thickness of nickel plating. Damned shame Remington stopped making them. Broadside, they'll shoot through a deer at reasonable ranges. I have no doubt they would perforate any bear at the same ranges.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Winchester makes the Double X load at 1,450 fps. Recoil is downright painful. But they, likewise, will shoot through a deer at reasonable ranges. The shot is copper plated, but it looks like a thin wash to me. But the stuff hits very hard. If I had to rely on a 00 buckshot load in bear country, and if I was out of my Remingtons, I'd pick the these. The 3" load has 12 pellets and also shoots at 1,450 fps. There's a 2 3/4 load, too. The 3" for me patterns best.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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Originally Posted by 10Glocks
Most copper plated and nickel plated shot these days is just a wash and adds very little to the hardness of the shot. There used to be exceptions.

The best penetrating buckshot load ever made, IMO, was the Remington Premier Magnum XR nickel plated. Not made anymore, but I've preserved some from when I stocked up in the late 80s. These pellets measure a tad over 00 diameter and appear to have a fairly substantial thickness of nickel plating. Damned shame Remington stopped making them. Broadside, they'll shoot through a deer at reasonable ranges. I have no doubt they would perforate any bear at the same ranges.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Winchester makes the Double X load at 1,450 fps. Recoil is downright painful. But they, likewise, will shoot through a deer at reasonable ranges. The shot is copper plated, but it looks like a thin wash to me. But the stuff hits very hard. If I had to rely on a 00 buckshot load in bear country, and if I was out of my Remingtons, I'd pick the these. The 3" load has 12 pellets and also shoots at 1,450 fps. There's a 2 3/4 load, too. The 3" for me patterns best.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
For that recoil I will take my 458 every time LOL.

I forgot about the plated vs washed thing...


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My experience with two close encounters with grizzlies isn't a large enough sample to consider me an expert on shotgun slugs but a friend had a much larger sample to work with. This friend was the gunner for an ADFG heli bear reduction program. In a week he shot 80+ bears [brown & black] with Brenneke Slugs. The local folks were retrieving many of the dead bears for meat and complained about the excessive meat loss due to the Brenneke Slugs. The next spring he went back and shot 60+ with Foster Slugs. Most of the bears required several Foster Slugs but the local folks could "eat right up to the hole".

I bought some 2-3/4" Brenneke Slugs upon his recommendation and gave a 5 pack to a friend in the bush. Within a month, he had to kill a boar that his little dog had brought back to him, and he was asking me to get him more ammo even though he still had 4 left.

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Originally Posted by NMiller
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by NMiller
Dang, playing dead for that long would take nerves of steel.

My favorite bear story is Gene Moe. 69 yo badass that punched a bear in the nose and broke his neck. I think he stuck a knife in his neck a few times and was digging it around, they figure he must have done enough damage that when he punched it the neck broke.
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gene's story is a great one, but none of the elements other than name, age, and badass status exist in your translation!

He did not break the bear's neck, let alone by punching.
He did not stab the bear in the neck.

The story has been posted here many times.

Here's the link to the story, it mentions stabbing the bear in the neck several times, and "lethal punch had finished breaking the vertebrae" , but possible that's not accurate. Maybe you were there?


https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/larry-mueller-and-marguerite-reiss/2007/09/last-stand/
I know Gene and his nephew that was hunting with him. I have seen the major scar. I have heard Gene tell the story a number of times. I saw the bear hide and counted the knife wounds myself.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
IC B2

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Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by NMiller
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by NMiller
Dang, playing dead for that long would take nerves of steel.

My favorite bear story is Gene Moe. 69 yo badass that punched a bear in the nose and broke his neck. I think he stuck a knife in his neck a few times and was digging it around, they figure he must have done enough damage that when he punched it the neck broke.
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gene's story is a great one, but none of the elements other than name, age, and badass status exist in your translation!

He did not break the bear's neck, let alone by punching.
He did not stab the bear in the neck.

The story has been posted here many times.

Here's the link to the story, it mentions stabbing the bear in the neck several times, and "lethal punch had finished breaking the vertebrae" , but possible that's not accurate. Maybe you were there?


https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/larry-mueller-and-marguerite-reiss/2007/09/last-stand/
I know Gene and his nephew that was hunting with him. I have seen the major scar. I have heard Gene tell the story a number of times. I saw the bear hide and counted the knife wounds myself.
Just read the linked story. It bears virtually no resemblance to the story I heard from Gene. Pretty disgusting actually.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Originally Posted by AGL4now
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
[quote=KillerBee][quote=rost495]

Really? 90% fit your fantasy of a bear attack? What a clown!

I don't understand or like the "Quote" system on this forum. Easy to get confused as to whom is making reference whom.
My question is who are you referring to about 90% fantasy of bear attack.....??? ME or someone else.
I was not questioning you, but rather the clueless clown.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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When Liver Eatin Johnson got attacked by a griz, he took out his bowie, plunged it into the griz, and left it there. The griz was distracted and let him be, Liver Eatin made tracks. True story.


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]



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Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by AGL4now
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
[quote=KillerBee][quote=rost495]

Really? 90% fit your fantasy of a bear attack? What a clown!

I don't understand or like the "Quote" system on this forum. Easy to get confused as to whom is making reference whom.
My question is who are you referring to about 90% fantasy of bear attack.....??? ME or someone else.
I was not questioning you, but rather the clueless clown.

Stick up your arse, fruit!


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I’ve seen literally dozens of various sized brown bears killed, have necopsied them, and must say buckshot or foster slugs are among the last things I would trust my life to. A brenneke slug will work, but not impressively so. Brennekes lack sufficient penetration overall and have been found to deflect in ways that a proper rifle does not.

The .375, 9.3, .416, and .458 flavors have impressed me greatly. They bring a combo of power, bullet upset, and straight line penetration that’s an unbeatable problem solver.

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Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by pabucktail
Swamp, the unfortunate reality is your racism/anti-semitism casts a pall over what you have to say on any given topic.

Blowing off regs is an insult to honest people who follow them. Those who have nothing to hide don’t hide things.
Call it whatever you like... AK courts have a long history of hammering people turning themselves in for minor infractions... And going light on those fighting it to the bitter end.

Exactly opposite what they should be doing.

You’re not totally wrong there sir. I’ve seen heroin dealers get off easier than a guy killing a sub legal moose. The Alaska judiciary can be pretty goofy.

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Originally Posted by pabucktail
I’ve seen literally dozens of various sized brown bears killed, have necopsied them, and must say buckshot or foster slugs are among the last things I would trust my life to. A brenneke slug will work, but not impressively so. Brennekes lack sufficient penetration overall and have been found to deflect in ways that a proper rifle does not.

The .375, 9.3, .416, and .458 flavors have impressed me greatly. They bring a combo of power, bullet upset, and straight line penetration that’s an unbeatable problem solver.

Great post Sir!

If you were bow hunting in Grizz country and you were legally not permitted to carry either a Hand Gun or a Rifle and only a Shot Gun which load would you select?

Thank you


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I think I’d emigrate.

Barring that, 3” magnum Brennekes and no buckshot. At all.

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Originally Posted by pabucktail
I think I’d emigrate.

Barring that, 3” magnum Brennekes and no buckshot. At all.

🤣 🤣 🤣

Ya I hear you, was thinking about it, since anyone can get in these days without any paperwork whatsoever.

I should have asked in my question, how many of those bears were killed with Slugs vs. 00 under 20 yards, do you happen to have that stat?

Thanks again and have a great evening.


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I’ve seen them wounded, not killed by buckshot. Buckshot takes the already limited potential power of the shotgun and divys it up amongst a group of the most ballistically inefficient projectiles in hopes of making something good happen.

Foster slugs are non-penetrating garbage that will barely work on rib only broadside shots, and then not reliably penetrate fully.

20 yards is a helluva long way off for a genuine defensive bear shooting.

I’ve never seen or heard of any professional guide who uses buckshot or foster slugs to back up a client or trail wounded bears. There are very good reasons for that.

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24HCF member klikitarik has related his event of shooting a smaller, young brownie with Brennekes and not being successful. Had to get a rifle for success.


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Originally Posted by pabucktail
I think I’d emigrate.

Barring that, 3” magnum Brennekes and no buckshot. At all.
Yeah, no kidding. Move. But there are some sabot slugs and copper slugs. I'd have to look hard into them. And then compare if 3 inch is actually needed.

No buckshot for me ever. Slugs would have to do some serious reading and confirmation testing for sure.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by AGL4now
I found the account of the Brown Bear on top of me and will send it Private Mail.

Hi AGL4now, I wrote up my story, you will get a laugh, PM'ed you.

Cheers


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Just survived a 6 day deer hunting trip on Admiralty Island. Picked up a fall RB-077 tag before we left, just in case these were any "issues". Always take my 35 Whelen over there. Took a kid (28 YO Army Reservist) from Colorado with us to shoot his first deer. Let him shoot my .270 WCF, .30-06 and 300 WSM before the hunt. He insisted on the .270 as that is what he hunts back in CO. Switched the 130 gr load to 150 gr.

Hunting with 3 guys in a single groups kinda sucks, but we made it work. When we got one, 2 guys boned it out and the other guy got to hunt by himself for a little while. Took a few turns with one guy staying at cabin while the other two when out hunting - these were the most productive days.

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L, how was hunting?

Heading up with a buddy bow hunting on kup next week. No brown bears😂

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