Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Barnes Tipped TXS in a 30-06

I have taken many deer sized game and a couple elk with my tried and true 30-06 over the years. I have been reading about the Barnes Tipped TSX and they have piqued my interest. I have heard regarding the TXS that the lighter bullets for a given caliber perform similar to a heavier lead core. Meaning a 150 or 165gr TSX will give similar penetration as a 180gr lead core bullet in the same caliber. Is there any truth to these statements. What kind of results could I expect shooting a well placed 150gr TTSX on elk? Would the velocities produced expand the bullets as advertised? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I am currently reloading 168 grain TTSX for my elk hunt this fall. It is also for a .30-06. The TTSX will follow the same direction as the regular Barnes TSX bullets, generally able to drop 1 or 2 sizes for a given animal. From talking with Barnes and other folks, the 168 gr TTSX/TSX in .30-06 for a pure elk hunt seems to be the best choice.

There isn't a ton of experience on the TTSX yet, but it was to resolve the chance that normal TSX's from opening up and penciling through. A 150 GR TSX has proven to be great on elk and will work with a '06, no problem.

I also plan to load some 130 Gr TTSX for my antelope and whitetail deer hunts. I would choose the 150 GR for larger, nothern whitetails/mule deer/caribou size game.

If you were looking for an all around bullet size, the 150 TTSX would be a good choice.

Shooting lighter for caliber bullets with the TSX is the correct choice. My hunters using the TSX in a 30/06 shoot well in excess of 100 big game animals a year. These have been with the original TSX, not the new TTSX (plastic tipped) bullets.

There should be no difference in performance. I'm not convinced yet that the tipped bullets will work any differently then the originals. I've not experienced any fail to open conditions on game with the TSX.

I've used the new ones since early last summer. Everything looks like this is another winning offer from Barnes. I'll use them for the season in RSA again this year and by June I will know quite a bit more about the internal performance.

I can say for 100% certain, that the 165 TSX shot at 2900fps from a 30/06 is plenty for big game. It's the load we shoot in my rifle in Africa. I've never seen a reason to change from this combination.

Thanks for the replies.

JJHACK what size game have you shot with the 165 TSX, are they similar to our large deer and elk sized animals?



I was thinking along the same lines. I am having a tough time wrapping my brain around a 150gr TTSX performing similarly to a 180gr lead core, but every thing I have read supports it. That would be a great do all setup!!

It's not complicated to understand.

instantly after impact a lead core and jacketed bullet begins to seperate, crumble and lose it's weight. It may continue ahead, and it may not. It may curve, stop, or it may lodge into bone. the reduced weight has as much to do with further penetration as the lost velocity. Retaining weight increases penetration. The greater the inertia the deeper the penetration. Combine that with the more rough edged or maybe more accurately stated the lack of a soft round conventional lead mushroom, and it's able to poke through the exit side of the skin far more often.

A TSX opens perfectly into 4 petals and retains 100% weight and then exits leaving two holes in the hide for you to follow the dripping blood.

There is nothing special needed to kill a Deer. They die about as easy as any big game alive. They have a minimal will to live when hit properly with about any bullet, and they are quite soft.

The African Game we hunt is much more like NA Elk and Mtn goats. Tough as nails and with the herd instinct they will travel a hella long way to stay with the group, even dead on their feet.

Regarding animals size comparison, to answer your question more directly, a 2000lb bull eland can jump a 2 meter fence from a standstill without a running leap. We have seen this a number of times. A bull elk will not jump that fence at only half the body weight. Nor will an American Bison which is also equal in wieght to the eland. So to compare what has been killed with the 165grain bullet Yes we are killing far tougher game then deer and far bigger game then elk.

Here is an older page of notes I published here in the past:
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I have recovered and recorded a lot of information on the bullets used this season from my loaner 30/06 rifle.

First some of the facts and details regarding the loads and the gun used.

Rifle: Model 70 Winchester PacNor 23� barrel in standard 30/06 cartridge

Winchester Brass
Federal 210M primers
IMR4350 powder 58 grains
Chronographed at 2900 plus at 55deg F

Game shot by 7 different hunters six male one female

6 warthogs
12 impala
6 Kudu bulls
1 Kudu cow
5 Zebra
3 waterbuck
6 wildebeest
4 Red Hartebeest
4 Blesbok
2 Nyala
1 Steenbok
1 Gemsbok

51 total animals. One was not recovered, a Blue Wildebeest was lost although a confirmed hit with a short blood trail.

Shortest shot was a impala at about 40 feet, longest shots were a Zebra at a laser measured 237 yards, Blue Wildebeest at 198 yards, Kudu Bull at 225, and Impala at 177 yards all measured with my LRF 1200.

35 were shot with the Barnes TSX bullets. 7 were recovered
6 were shot with the Federal Fusion factory loads
6 were shot with Hornady Interbonds
4 were shot with the PMC factory loads

My unbiased assessment is as follows. However I must first say that I was admittedly very skeptical of the Barnes bullets based on my prior extensive experience with the original X bullet design. I must also admit to not being very impressed with the Fusions lack of velocity at only 2700plus fps. The PMC bullets were on hand and used to share the difference between factory cup and core bullets and premium handloads. The Interbonds were already a well known performer and had a lot of respect from me.






My rifle was zeroed with the X bullets and shooting hole touching groups at 100 meters. Prior to departure I shot a three shot group to foul the barrel. Upon arrival I shot a 2 shot group to prove the travel did not compromise the scope adjustments. There were 5 shots now through the barrel. Each hunter using this rifle also shot it before their hunt started. The Fusion, PMC, and Interbond bullets would shoot into about a 3+� group mixed POI's with the settings used for the TSX bullets.

The Federal Fusion Bullets: Underpowered for bigger game. The lack of velocity and the unpredictable bullet shapes left me unimpressed. Although they held together they under penetrated and fell short of my desired performance hopes. It�s an excellent inexpensive deer and smaller big game bullet but does not have the kind of killing power I expect with a 30/06 using other loads and bullets. A good choice for deer, impala, blesbok, but I would not likely choose them for anything bigger or even on the tough little warthog. I stopped using this bullet for further shooting on game based on the early limited performance on the recovered game and bullets. With the shallow penetration and oddly shaped mushrooms I was not confident to shoot game as tough as wildebeest, gemsbok and zebra with these bullets.

PMC Bullets: As can be expected with these bullets being Cup and Core design they will kill about like the Fusion bullets. If everything is perfect they work fine, but when something goes wrong they will not provide the edge I would like to see in my bullets. All of them failed to stay in one piece and all lost much if not all functional weight retention.

Hornady Interbonds: Work flawless and 100% predictable 4 out of the 6 were recovered and all had massive expansion with great weight retention. Another hunter used these bullets in his 30/06 AI and had identical performace and recovery percentages as my standard 30/06. The AI version was about 90fps faster at 3000fps. A better bullet would be difficult to choose. I have already posted dozens of pictures and text on these bullets in the past. This years experience is the same. It's a class act by Hornady and difficult to choose another bullet over this design.

The Barnes TSX bullet: Well this was the one that drove this project for me. Although I am very pleased with the performance. I am very happy with the results of so many deadly shots on big tough game animals. I�m still skeptical about some of what I have seen. The 7 recovered bullets look almost identical and have from what I can see 100% weight retention. Not a single petal was broken off and all expanded from the close range 40 yard shots to the longer near 250 yard shots. Some exits were massive and the blood was flowing freely. Others showed me a bore diameter hole and not a drop of blood from the exit. I�m stumped as to how these bullets exit with an exact bore diameter hole? Yet some others have a huge exit hole. I had about a 20% recovered bullet rate from these bullets. The lowest recovery percentage of any bullet I have ever used. Exits are the norm with the TSX. I had a bullet zip clean through the shoulders of a Big Zebra at 237 yards which included the vertebra and one scapula above the shoulders. This is enough mass that I have seen it stop a 270 grain Swift A frame from a 375HH plenty of times. Yet a 165 grain TSX from a 30/06 passed through. 4 zebra were shot with the 30/06. One needed a follow up shot, all 4 of the TSX bullets passed through these zebra. Only the one follow up shot was inside one of them. Zebra, Gemsbok, and Blue Wildebeest are about the best bullet stopping plains game we have. All three species were shot clean through with this bullet. Few provided a good blood trail often due to the bore diameter exit holes. Those that had good blood trails when recovered always had good exit holes too.

Here is an Impala with a noticeable exit hole but you can clearly see there is no blood flow.



I have 4 other TSX bullets I could photo and post here. However they are identical to the first two in this photo. They would be difficult to tell apart had I not marked them before I left! The only oddball in the group is the one from the zebra. It was recovered inside the heart. It has a wrinkled petal which you can see in this photo. All the others are exactly the same.


The rifle was not cleaned, barrel swabbed out, or oiled during the entire trip. On my last evening I hunted hard for a warthog. I walked from 2:30 PM til dark about 6PM I was hunting alone and looking for a whopper warthog I had seen twice in the prior several weeks I had been hunting here. In the closing moments of light about 5:55 I saw what looked like a shooter. At 75 yards he was trotting parallel to the road I was on, and slightly quartering away from me through the bush. When the warthog cleared a bush and left me with a fleeting moment between bushes I leveled the upper crosshair and touched off the trigger when it was layed behind the last rib. It appeared as if I rolled him over but the muzzle flash was too bright. I walked to the spot and saw a spot of blood. Then there in the flashlight beam just ahead he layed dead. The blood flow was significant and the exit was through the opposite scapula.

Several times I tested the accuracy during the week with targets. Each time the bullets were into the 1� square �bullseye� on the target at 100 meters. With nearly 60 shots fired during this trip and no cleaning I trusted this rifle and bullet combination on the last moment shot at the warthog. There was simply no fouling problems with these TSX bullets and this PacNor barrel!

I would certainly feel a whole lot better if the exits looked like they had more consistency in size. However I have also come to another probably arguable conclusion with the TSX and the 30/06. I would much prefer to have a 30/06 with this bullet and a rangefinder then a 300mag of any make without a rangefinder. I feel 100% confident that these bullets will penetrate and shoot accurately as far as I would like to shoot. Say 400 yards or so. If you know the distance with the rangefinder hitting the target is not complicated or risky with low wind. These 165 grain TSX bullets in a 30/06 will out perform a 300 magnum with a standard cup and core bullet every time. Sure you can up weight with a 300 magnum and use the 180�s. However if the 30/06 killed 50 of 51 tough big game animals I�m not sure moving to the 300 mag is a practical choice if you want more power. I think moving to the 338 is much more logical. If shooting long range 450 yards plus is the reason then would I agree. However a rangefinder with a 30/06 is still a very do-able shot with these TSX bullets on a calm day.

So do I switch now from the Hornady Interbonds I love so much to the TSX bullets? ����..Wow talk about a tough choice! The TSX shoots a tiny bit better in Accuracy, the tips don�t deform, they seat very tight in the brass with the groves. They don�t have the 100% internal damage consistency that the Interbonds have, but they are close and I cannot explain why the exit holes are bore diameter on some of the game. I do have a photo coming of the exit on a zebra. It looks like the stallion was shot with a small broad head. It has 4 slices about �� long each. It�s a brilliant exit hole. Why don�t they all show this? Maybe 35 big animals under nearly identical conditions is still not enough information? I will say that If I only saw 10-12 of the best exits I would swear these were the best bullets on earth no question, hands down, end of story. I may yet agree to this statement. However there were those few that leave me wondering why a tiny little exit hole as if the bullet did not open or the petals all sheared off? ( no petals ever found inside) I will continue to use them until the first time I find one that is unopened inside an animal. If that does not happen I may not use anything else in this rifle. I think they make a better large big game, Elk, bear, zebra, wildebeest, gemsbok, eland, waterbuck, moose, etc bullet then the Interbond because the exits at least in theory should provide more blood flow. I think the interbonds will provide much more explosive impact and internal trauma on deer sized game like antelope, sheep, blesbok, impala, etc.

They do not have a similar POI or load to shoot well from my rifle. They are as incompatible with a single scope setting as possible. I will have to pick one and stick with it. So for now I�ll stay with the TSX. As far as I�m concerned the TSX does more with the available power of the 30/06 then the Interbond does. The much higher frequency of exits is a benefit to good blood trails. I know my weakness as a confirmed bullet recovery junky even though I know they should all exit.

I�m not sure you can make a mistake in choosing between the 165 grain AFrame, Interbond, Accubond, TSX, or Partition, The one that shoots best in your barrel and gets a minimum level of functional velocity should do fine. I guess having to choose between the 165 grain Interbond and the 165 grain TSX for me is actually a good problem to have.

Great information!! Excellent Post!! Thanks for taking the time to put that together. I am going to load up some 150gr and see what kind of results I get. Thanks again.

I ordered some .270 cal 110 grain federal loads this week just to try into a 700 .270 they should smoke!

Are the tipped TTSX shooting about the same as the older TSX with the same loads? Are you finding that it requires a complete new load work up to make the switch?

I've not shot them in the same weights yet. However with a slightly different shape I would not start at max, rather a bit under and see how things look first.

On the other hand I would use the same loads for the TTSX as I have for the TSX, in fact I have for several rifles.

I may work up some loads this spring for the TTSX as well as the new plastic tipped Trophy Bonded, and see if they are moe accurate for me. If not I am perfectly happy with the TSX.

I'm not 100% convinced that the end result of the TTSX will be much different then the TSX. I've not experienced any trouble with the TSX, and they are as accurate as any bullet I've ever shot. The TTSX adds another piece to the puzzle, but that should not be a problem, plastic tipped bullets have been around a long time and worked fine.

They have a larger internal cavity, and the ogive is quite different. I have them on hand this year for my loaner rifles in Africa. I'll have plenty more details to share when I come back!

Please keep us informed when you return.

For the information of any who wish it, Barsnes makes a 165 gr. TSX and a 168 gr. TSX in .30 caliber. The 165's are for the .300 magnums and the 168, with a slightly longer nose and higher BC, are designed for the 30'06 and the .308.
My much more limited experiences with the Nosler Partition, the Hornady Interbond and the X and TSX are pretty similar to what others have found. Including the fact that the lighter X/TSX bullets penetrate much like the conventional bullets of 15% more weight, at least.
I've also noticed that the Hdy IB's open more and don't penetrate as well as the NP's or the X/TSX's. But, like the man said, they are all excellent. One of the reasons why I quit using magnums for hunting. E

JJ. - - I too had some early recovered Barnes-X�s (225grs from my .340 Roy) and they typically had the perfectly-formed �X� shape in the petals after expansion and retained weights in the high 98+ % range. These were launched just above 3,000 fps and were recovered from �lengthwise� elk, shot from 150-400 yards, where the impact velocity was even less. When measured, their diameter was almost uniformly 2 times the caliber in both directions, with all 4 petals intact and �neatly� folded back (each petal bent almost in a loop) so the tip of the petal just kissed the bullets shank.

However, over the last few years of shooting the 168gr TSX�s in my ATT rifle (.300 Wby), launched at 3,400 fps, I�m seeing a big difference in the shape of the few bullets recovered. If you look closely at the recovered TSX from my recent Utah bull (Big Game Hunting thread: �Recovered 168gr TSX�) you can see that the nose (petals) of the bullet are no longer in an X-shape, but rather wrapped tightly back, folded against the shank. So far back, that it creates a nose on the bullet that is rounded and �soft�, in comparison to the usual Barnes �X� expanded bullet ad photo.

I believe that this is a result of two things ... Increased velocity ... and what the boolit hits (or goes though) on its penetration path.

If your TSX enters the chest (without smashing a rib, shoulder or leg bone) and is opened by the hydraulic forces alone, working on the bullets nose cavity, then the petals come out (bloom) as if the bullet had been shot into a homogenous water tank and it produces the photogenic �X� pattern pictured in the Barnes ads. This perfectly expanded bullet is slowed and stopped, by its larger frontal area and by the soft tissue that �catches� it.

If instead, you up the velocity another 300-400 fps and smash that bullet (early in its penetration path) into a major bone or tough tissue (like a dense/tensed ham), then the petals are driven back �tightly� against the bullets shank, greatly reducing the frontal area (and any cutting capabilities). Since the bullet still retains a high percentage of it�s initial weight, it continues to penetrate .... and with this smaller frontal area, penetrates even further than a conventionally expanded Barnes �X� shape would. This additional penetration is what leads to enough bullet travel to exit the animal, leaving closer to a caliber-sized exit hole .. rather than a fifty-cent piece sized exit-hole. Since we never (or rarely) recover these pass-through bullets, we don�t have a large sample size to lay-out on a table and visually compare the shape/expansion of these TSX�s that exited with �small� exit holes, to a table top full of TSX�s with 4 nicely spread petals in an �X� shape that didn�t exit.

So, with the TSX ... fast is good ... and it means even deeper penetration ... but if the petals fold completely back, the bullet can exit with a small diameter Gaz-outta hole.

That�s my hypothesis .... n� I�m stickin to it ....

... Silver Bullet

�If ya only got a $10 head ... buy a $10 helmet .�
(Evil Knieval�s answer to a dumb-blonde reporter, who asked why Evil planned to wear a $750 helmet, on his Snake River Canyon jump attempt ).

JJ,
This is about as comprehensive an article I have ever read on terminal performance. I wish you would have had some experience with the Swift Scirocco's too. I have settled on the 7mm 150 S2 and so far I love it. Like your apprehension with the Tsx, I too have an apprehension with the Scirocco. My brother in law shot an Axis buck with a 300 Wby at 40 yards with an S2 180 loaded to 3200 fps. The bullet did not penetrate and I recovered it in the 2nd "grass sack". Someone here commented that if the grass sack was full, which it was, that hardly any bullet would penetrate that from a frontal brisket shot. Still the bullet penetrated roughly 20". I have it here and it weighs exactly 80% less than what it started out as. It entered the front right shoulder, splitnered the joint, the bone fragments cut the top of the heart off, punctured a lung, made mince meat of the liver, penetrated the first stomach which was STUFFED with wet grass and came to rest in the second stomach intestinal tube.

Thinking like you, I considered that had the animal took off, tracking may not have been optimum. I'm still gonna use them until they give me a reason to quit though. Although, with that much damage he wouldn't have gone far. The shot spun him 360 degrees around, he stumbled to the ground, got up to run but hooked his antler in an old roll of fence wire which held him down for the roughly 3 seconds it then took for him to expire.


Anyway, after years and years of countless articles from gun magazines, which I haven't purchased since 1990, this is one of the best reports I have seen on the subject.

I, too am a recovery bullet junky. Keep up the good work.

Silver Bullet,

I would like to interject two points of interest in your theory.

One, the folding back of the petals makes sense due to high velocity. However, JJ states his 30-06 lacks that capability of the increased velocity.

Two, JJ also stated that his pencil through exit holes were on animals where no extra petals were found within had they sheared off and remained in the body.

I am not arguing or disagreeing with you. I have no personal experience with the Barnes Tsx's. I will soon begin load development with the 120 & 140 TTSX in my 7 Wby.

WOW!!! great read... thanks guys!

JJHack

Whats your opinion of me running the the 210TSX's outa my 338WM. I'll be using that combo on griz (hopefully) this coming spring and can only imagine it will break chit with a vengance!

To better that combo would require a 375 with 270 TSX's

Gotta think driven to max speed you're gonna get his attention one last time.