Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 35 Whelen-with newer powders

John Haviland in the July 2023 issue of The American Rifleman wrote a "Faster 35 Whelen" article.
He may have been onto something with the Speer Handloading Manual No. 15, 250 gr bullets, and the 35 Whelen cartridge with new
powders like Alliant Power Pro 2000-MR and Hodgdon CFE 223.

My 35 Whelen now responds like or slightly better - than a 35 Whelen Ackley Improved using 250 gr RN Speer bullets or Nosler 250 gr Partitions. The only 35 Whelen I own is a custom Winchester pre-64 Model 70 from Idaho that looks and feels like a Biesen Super Grade with the original M-70 barrel and iron sights. Appropriately re-rifled and re-chambered.

WDM Bell or Stewart Edward White may have said that the ideal African magazine rifle would be in 35 caliber pushing a 250 gr bullet at 2500 fps. Someone of that era said it.

Using Hodgdon CFE 223 because of that maker's powders being not as sensitive to temperature changes, new Norma 35 Whelen brass, and Speer 250 gr bullets, with standard Win LR primers ... I managed to reach slightly over that 2500 fps velocity. Haviland stopped at 65 grs of Alliant Power Pro 2000-MR reaching 2610 f.p.s. He noted good accuracy but recoil at the 338 Win Magnum level.
He used 250 gr Speer Grand Slam bullets.

My successful efforts were to reach or slightly better 350 Rigby Magnum ballistics with the original 35 Whelen cartridge, WITHOUT having to rechamber the rifle. A 250 gr Nosler Partition 35-caliber bullet travelling over 2500 fps becomes a 35 Whelen-Rigby
and does it accurately without that much extra recoil. Good medicine for Africa or black timber elk, bear or moose.

I think Barsness comfortably reached 2500 quite a few years ago with RL 15. As Alliant powders fade away, it's good to hear of alternatives.

My .35 Whelen No. 1 went on my second trip. 250 gr A Frames at 2500fps is an absolute PG hammer. I'm now playing with the 280 AF's. No need to, but I have a 1-10' barrel, so why not?

The old Whelen is a hammer. Love the 338 Win, but being an 06 based cartridge most of the time you can have a slimmer, lighter rifle and get by just fine with a 22" barrel as well. Good write up 450.

I can drive the 250 NPT to 2,645 fps with 63.o gr CFE in a 22" tube.

A good bear protection load when deer hunting the ABC islands.

Hodgdon CFE powder 250 gr loads in the 35 Whelen can be driven over 2600 fps, as can the same 250 gr loads with
Alliant Power Pro 2000-MR.
Keep in mind accuracy and recoil, however. Sometimes a second or 3rd shot is needed on the average irritated grizzly.


My next research will be with 300 gr bullets, using the same H-CFE powder in this 24 in barreled M-70.
Might just be the ticket for Mr. Griz or Kodiak brown bears.

I've been running the 225 gr. Barnes TSX at 2710 FPS using RL15. Not sure what I'll use when my supply runs out. I like that load because the trajectory is about the same as what I get running 180 gr. bullets in the 30-06. The load works just fine on elk.
PJ

I know that 250gr. bullets are considered the classic weight for the Whelen. As a great fan of the cartridge and simply to generate conversation and hopefully learn something, I have a question.

Simply this. The TSX 225gr. bullet can be driven to 2700 fps + safely. What will a 250gr. cup/core or even a Partition/A-Frame do better?

Also, the 6th edition Sierra provides modern load data for 225gr. bullets like the Speer does for 250s.

I have an 1885 Highwall 10 twist. The 222 grain Hammer Hunter and Power Pro Varmint nets me 2911 FPS with excellent accuracy and flat trajectory.

The 225 gr bullet has excellent down range performance, and that bullet weight cup/core was used also in the 350 Rigby Magnum. I would prefer the 250 gr A-Frame Swift over
the Barnes TSX bullets. The TSX 225 gr bullet is OK, but its performance also varies rifle to rifle. My older pre-64 Model 70 with a 24 inch barrel likes both the 250 Noslert Partition and the
250 gr A-Frame Swift. They are both accurate and I am getting close to 2575 fps velocities with both bullets, coupled with Hodgdon CFE 223 powder. I have been using Remington magnum LR primers in the
35 Whelen case, as I have a large supply. Also use Swift A-Frame bullets in my pre-64 375 H&H rifle with a 25 in barrel.

I have successfully hunted moose with pre-war Model 71s in .348 WCF using 250-270 gr Hawk bullets. Swift also makes a superb 200 gr A-frame bullet for the 348 WCF. Moose hunting in Alaska/Canada
also adds to the possibility of encounters with the big bears. Repeat shots are faster with the slick-action 24 in barreled Model 71s as they balance well during cycling. I personally prefer an 1886/Model 71 if close encounters with bears are
on the menu. My experience with just the Model 71s indicate that this model is faster with repeat shots than virtually any bolt-action rifle. Alaskan guides and hunters have run comparison tests with the M-71s against bolt actions and support this finding. This may not be true with the Marlin short-barreled 1895s, as the shorter barrel affects balance and may slow cycle rate due to that factor.

I ran the old Barnes x 225 at 2821 fps using as-2015. It was likely a 60k+ psi load in my old 25” Springfield with a custom chamber. Old = Custom in the Whelen chamber gig. It was accurate and killed like the Hammer of Thor. I simply don’t run the old girl that hard anymore using 280 cast most of the time and 250 RN Hornady occasionally.
F01

John B. did reach 2500 fps with 250 gr bullets and RL-15, and I managed to repeat that load-even easier to exceed that with 225 gr bullets. The trick is with 250 gr bullets
to reach above 2500 to 2575 without undue pressures in any temperature-Alaska to Africa. In Alaska, a bear is not far from a gut pile...
Most of my elk-moose have been shot under 125 yards in cold weather.

Powder: IMR 4350 was being priced at $71.00 a pound at a favorite gun shop. Seems IMR is trying to catch up with LR or Magnum LR primer prices.

I shot 250's at well over 2500 for years using 3031; until I decided it was too hot. Now, I load to just under 2500 with Varget, which is accurate and consistent. I tried some Leverevolution powder and got wild fluctuation in pressure and velocity. GD

Not saying CFE223 won't work, but LeverEvolution's burn rate is more optimal for heavies in the Whelen. I have some 286 grain Hornadys that I sized down to .358 that I am waiting to try. 2400fps should be possible. Big Game should also work.

CFE 223 does work and the results published by AR. Like Barnes X-TSX bullets-results vary from rifle to rifle. My pre-64 custom Winchester M-70 likes Nosler Partitions
and Swift A-Frames so will stick with them. Only have this Winchester in 35 Whelen, and wish to keep it healthy. Barnes X-TSX intrude into powder space. Greydog has had different results for LevEv.

In the late 90s, my hunting partner drew a Maine moose permit. For that hunt, he wanted to use his Rem. 700 Classic 35 Whelen and 250gr. bullets.

We worked up a load with original Barnes 250gr. X bullets and RL 15 powder. I can't remember the powder charge, but the chronographed velocity of 2558 fps always stuck in my mind. He ended up taking a 46 inch moose. The bullet impacted the right shoulder and was recovered perfectly mushroomed in the left flank.

In my own Classic, my handloads with 225gr. TSX have gotten between 27-2800 fps with RL 15, Varget and CFE223. I ended up giving up a little velocity for more accuracy with the 2708 fps Varget load.

My only big animal with this bullet was a Newfie bear. Shot him dead on in the throat and recovered the bullet perfectly mushroomed sticking out the left ham. Different rifle and load though.

I’m on my 4th 35 Whelen, they all liked IMR4320, as did my 2 350 RM’s. That was with 250 grain SPEER, Partition and Hornady bullets. H4895 is another favorite powder, just as good as the IMR4320 in a couple of those. The other bullet that the 35’s like is the 225 grain Sierra’s which are back in stock at MidwayUSA. MD recommended another powder, which hot higher velocity, I believe that was TAC. TAC got good groups too. The tightest groups were IMR 4320, then H4895, and then TAC. I got sub-minute of angle with all three.
I know those are old powders but they work great. I have kept 5 lb’s of IMR4320 just for the 35’s.

CFE223 gets used in my .35 Whelen for 2840 fps/4030 ft-lbs at the muzzle from the 225gr AB. That was last year's bear load, coupled with the 300gr Barnes O at 2355 fps that shot into the same group at 100 yds. RL-17 for the 300.

I never use the long Barnes X or TSX because they rob too much space in the cartridge that belongs to powder.

This is my 3rd .35 Whelen, a single-shot Traditions G3 OUTFITTER with a CeraKote finish on all metal, a fluted 22" barrel with brake, and long free bore not limited by a magazine in COL. I didn't get a chance on the dominant bruin of the area last year. This year I toted my .375 H&H and had a close encounter at 20 yds with that dominant black bear but didn't shoot him because he was too big (+400 lbs) for what I'd planned or wanted. From now to the end of 2024 I'll be toting the .35 Whelen again for wolf using that 225gr load for which the rifle is sighted. I do have some 180gr TTSX's that would be a good choice for the wolves or a smaller bear at ~ 2900 fps. That bullet isn't too long.

I like that rifle a lot because of its handiness, toughness and OL of 39" including brake. It also shoots those 225s to sub-moa.


Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Another fan of the 225 gr TSX and RL-15 here. Mine via a Ruger M77 RS.

I did a LOT of testing and writing up results validating the very high velocities achieved in both Sierra's and Speer's most recent data on 2000-MR in the 35 Whelen. Did not run any CFE 223. You can read the results HERE
If you want to scroll back a few pages on the linked thread you can see some prior range reports, but you'll have to wade through a lot of others' comments.
BL - PP 2000-MR will easily give 250 grain bullets 2650 FPS with quite mild pressure. With 225s, well over 2800 FPS. I found it too slow for 200 grain bullets in the Whelen (can't fit enough in the case) but using PP Varmint, 2950+ was easy with 200s.
These numbers seem unbelievable, and the linked thread began with a lot of scoffing at Speer and Siera's published data, but per my testing, it's totally legit, at least for PP 2000-MR.

Cheers,
Rex