Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Big Bore lever action for bear defense?

Thanks! Just read through that discussion.

Regards, Guy

If anyone here is looking for one my friend Randy has a Marlin 45-70 Co-Pilot from Wild West Gins in Alaska he wants to sell. It has all the bells and whistles. If interested, PM me and I'll put you in touch with him. He doesn't use a computer at all, so you'll have to call him, or I'll have him call you.

I agree about controllability. 405gr bullets at 1300fps is about right.

Several years ago, I tried hardcast 400 gr Buffalo Bore in my new Marlin SBL. I couldn't hit a paper plate twice and my shoulder complained about it. Tried 350 Corebonds and got about the same result. Started to get worried that I wasted my money on the whole Wild West slicked up lever gun thing and then I tried Barnes 300 gr TSX. They consistently shoot 2" groups, and I feel like King Kong when carrying it as a backup to my recurve.

If you're proficient with the platform, there's no reason not to use it. The specs on a hot modern loading has more power than anyone is likely to handle out of a handgun and powerful revolvers are regularly employed for this task.

IIRC it was Ross Seyfried that wrote about and old sourdough that used to cut down on big brownies with a .30/30, from long range. Said it really pissed them off….

Plenty of big bore levers out there that will easily kill anything in our 50 states and probably the world:
Bighorn Armory 500 S&W
Marlin 45-70
Winchester 1895 in 30-06 and 405 Winchester
Winchester 1886 in 45-90
Browning BLR’s in various calibers
Various other 45-70’s such as Henry’s and Chiapas (sp), etc

There are several very good bullets from Lehigh, North Fork, and Cutting Edge Bullets for the hand loader today, at under 400 grains weight.

I have enough faith in the 45-70 Trapper and 380 grain Lehigh, that it was the long gun that I carried back to the moose kill for the butchering process. I was hunting and butchering alone. I normally don't carry 2 rifles to camp, but I was hoping to shoot a moose with the 45-70 in a limited visibility area. That did not happen. The little carbine was handy when initially setting things up. The thing about gutting and cutting a critter, you certainly don't have the rifle in your hands. And it is easy for it be a moose length or more away.

I have an acquaintance that has used a 16 or 16.5" Marlin 45-70 for many years for his moose hunting. He uses 500'ish grain hard cast. Certainly works well for him. I don't think the lighter copper and brass bullets are giving up much, if anything to his loads. Other than maybe lessening the recoil.

When I fished in Alaska We stayed on Chicagoff. Everyone out of the little town standing on the ground had either a Marlin big bore lever or a pump 12.
The guy I fished with had a 458 Win mag leaned up in reach.

That’s what I load for my guide gun, I carry it while packing out game and a camp gun. It’s a sporty load.

A 12GA with slugs would also work.

Book titled The Grizzly Bear by William Wright will answer your questions about it. He used an Winchester Hi-wall with an 45-100 black powder cartridge but in reality that is probably less energetic than an modern 45-70 smokeless full tilt load. The author is fairly local to your area and you'll most likely enjoy the read.

I have carried my old Browning 1886 45-70 carbine on brown bear hunts when guiding others using similar rifles, or archery. My son Taj also carries a M71 .475 Turnbull when he is guiding the same type hunters .
Shots will normally be close and with heavy loads both rifles certainly have all the power needed . And lever action rifles are usually a tad bit quicker to operate.

In case any of you are interested, Sportsman Warehouse has the Marlin SBL back in stock. This is the stainless model, laminated stock, 45-70. $1350. Not in the Alaska stores but you can order one online and it will be shipped to your store of choice. My checkbook just took a big hit, LOL.

When I last hunted in BC my guide carried a BLR 358 Win. Not sure if that qualifies as big bore or not?

Yep, yep jumps a little…..but is more civil on the bench than my wife’s .338 WM. When shot while standing on “yer hind legs”…..it’s a pussy cat!

As for groups, some apparently had issues, maybe I was just lucky. This was my very first load when I started load development……I stopped right there. I was pretty darn happy with it! Group was @ 100 yards using a 1-4X scope! memtb

Big bore levers for bears..........

That was a theme up there for two decades or more. Never heard of WWG?

This is pretty dated, but it was very enlightening when I read it in the late 80s.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/pnw/pubs/pnw_gtr152.pdf

[quote=AB2506]This is pretty dated, but it was very enlightening when I read it in the late 80s.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/pnw/pubs/pnw_gtr152.pdf[/quote

They actually suggest remodeling the Mark V rifle to suit a particular shooter who couldn't handle it and to lower velocity to prevent bullet fragmentation. Typical dated rubbish that had been around far too long.

Phil S. is on target as to both his rifle and his son's Model 71. They regularly encounter the big bears as guides, for a living. The Browning carbine has two advantages in 45-70: additional cartridges in the tubular magazine and no extra unnecessary safety. He is also correct about the lever action being a little faster in action-especially on repeat shots...which generally are not unusual.
I own two reliable stopping rifles in 450 Alaskan and 450 Fuller, in pre-war Winchester Model 71s- both originally from Johnson's Kenai Rifles Cooper Landing, AK. Johnson was a WWII Marine who did practical research
on what calibers would-and would not-stop grizzlies and brown bears. The 450 Alaskan is equivalent to a 45-90 WCF, but .348 brass is tough...allowing stiff hand loaded ammunition.
Reasonable velocities for a 400-gr AK Bullet Works bonded Kodiak bullet easily reach 18-1900 fps, allowing controlled and accurate repeat shots.

All of my 450s and a full-length 22-in Marlin 1895 in 45-70 carry iron Lyman receiver or Winchester 98A peep sights, as well as a Marbles 95 folding sporting rear sight. In Canada or Alaska, gunsmiths are not handy in the Interior or Brooks Range. A backup sight is an excellent option. Scopes should be used only if one is blind without them. Unnecessary weight that might slow reaction time. A healthy grizzly is fast, capable of catching a quarter horse within 75-100 yards.

Extra safeties on lever guns, not as originally designed by John Browning or J. Marlin and incorporated by Winchester or Marlin- are an abomination and under the right conditions-may get their owners mauled or killed.
If you plan to keep the rifle and not sell it, alter the rifle to exclude the extra safety-thought up by liability corporate attorneys.
My Marlin 1895 in 45-70 is an earlier version utilizing Marlin's original design. Barrel lengths on lever actions at 22-24 inch help balance and cycling the action. Resist a 20 inch barrel chop job.

Jay Williams, a lifetime Alaskan, wrote an older 1950s article for the American Rifleman that actually is more helpful than the USFS recommendations-on Alaskan bear rifles. In it he recommended the 86 Winchester in 33 WCF and 45-70 for use against the big bears. He also recommended the 50 EX and other large calibers in the 1886 Winchester. The 348 Winchester Model 71 is also an excellent choice with heavy 250 gr bonded core bullets by AK -Kodiak or Woodleigh, and even 270-300 gr bullets by Hawk Bullets. Last AK bull moose was killed by a 270 gr Hawk bullet in a M-71 348 Ackley Improved rifle @ 2450 fps.

Whenever I hear Bear and 45-70 in the same tread, gets me wondering, which is harder to knock down, a Grizzly or a Bison. I'm guessing less fear makes for better shots, but which is the tougher animal?